Of course, Kerry is right...

[MobBoss]

His misfired joke neglected the word "us". As in "end up getting us stuck in Iraq" - which implies an intention to take a pathetic shot at Bush, not a shot at the military in general. Even Bill O' Reilly recognizes this interpretation. Step away from the kool-aid. You are starting to make me wonder if Kerry would have had a point if he had the intention you ascribe to him.

You using Bill O to bolster your point? Now I know you have lost it.

What about all the democrats that have bailed on Kerry and told him to apologize? The man is a walking, talking election disaster.

I think the only people drinking the kool-aid around here are you and Bill O.

Lets coin a new phrase....the Kerry-pologist! Could be a good career in it.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

Moderator Action: JollyRoger and MobBoss warned for trolling/flaming.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[JollyRoger]

Retracted in light of warnings.

 

[C~G]

What about all the democrats that have bailed on Kerry and told him to apologize? The man is a walking, talking election disaster.

QFT

They should had left Kerry where they found him, with the other ents.
He's spoiled goods just like Gore and Hillary.

Lets coin a new phrase....the Kerry-pologist! Could be a good career in it.

Well, you could make a fortune to be apologist to the whole current administration as well.

Oh, some people already have, in fact they have entire newschannel just for the cause.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

The fact that more airtime is spent on this stupid little soundbyte than on the actual issues facing america is the thing that really gets to me....

Agreed 100%. Kerry should have said "I'll apologize for my stupid remark immediately after you apologize for your stupid war, which has caused infinitely more harm to the men and women of the armed forces than anything I could ever say."

Actually Bozo, I've been hearing on the news that statistically servicemen are more educated than the average Americans who do not join the military.

Serving members of the military, are no doubt better educated than average citizens because theyve benefited from the educational opportunities available to them in the military. I dont think that means that your average 18 yr old recruit is better educated than the average American.

Saying that uneducated people join the military is insane. Do you not know that most officers are required to have a college education.

I dont think anyone is talking about officers. Im pretty sure Kerry was referring to the raw recruits who would end up standing at an intersection in Sadr City.

He said most people who joint he military are uneducated, hence the mind TENDS to draw the conclusion that you are not smart, which is most definitely not the case.

I agree completely, education and intelligence are two different things. You can be highly intelligent and never have been to a school of any kind.

It may have been meant as a joke, but he botched it, and it became an insult. You insult so many people, especially if you politician, it would be smart politics to apologize.

Kerry is an idiot. What he said was really no big deal, but the fact that it came out of the mouth of a prominent politician shortly before an election is what magnified the whole thing.

Perhaps they may have limited educational and career opportunities before they join the military, but that certinatly isn't the case after they join the military. It's literally advertised everywhere, after all - go to the military to get an education.

Yep, exactly.

@Igloo, Mobboss, Bugfatty and any other current or former members of the military: My own personal experience has been that virtually everyone Ive ever known who's joined the military did so because of the educational opportunities (which were out of their reach in the civilian world) or because of pressing financial problems. One guy only joined because as a bonus for signing up, the Army agreed to wipe out his substantial debts. I know that lots of people join for patriotic reasons, but IMO the majority join because they have no better options.

 

[puglover]

Agreed 100%. Kerry should have said "I'll apologize for my stupid remark immediately after you apologize for your stupid war, which has caused infinitely more harm to the men and women of the armed forces than anything I could ever say."

Then Kerry's election would go the way of the dinosaurs.

I dont think anyone is talking about officers. Im pretty sure Kerry was referring to the raw recruits who would end up standing at an intersection in Sadr City.

And we all know its politically correct to stereotype soldiers.

 

[JohnRM]

...which is why he was forced to apologize. The last thing people in a tired, old decadent, broken down democracy want to hear is the truth. Truth is the enemy. Especially in an election year. Does anyone actually dispute the fact that for the most part, people with the most educational opportunities are less likely to join the military? Getting a free education is one of the primary reasons people join the military in the first place. Of course there are exceptions, but most people who join the military have limited education and career opportunities, everybody knows that, so why should the guy have to apologize?

Wow, um, unfortunately the facts do not support your conclusion. According to a recent news report, 96% of enlisted persons have a highschool diploma and 97% of officers have a college education, levels obviously much higher than that of the general public.

 

[Bugfatty300]

I take it that the 4% of enlisted with out highschool diplomas have GEDs? I hope.

 

[woody60707]

Wow, um, unfortunately the facts do not support your conclusion. According to a recent news report, 96% of enlisted persons have a highschool diploma and 97% of officers have a college education, levels obviously much higher than that of the general public.

Beat me to it by one post. But yes, what John says. You need a highschool diploma and pass a piss test to join. Just by those two thing alone that puts them above the avg person in the US.

Unless you can prove that 98% of 18 year olds have a highschool diploma and can pass a piss test at the age of 18.

 

[Bugfatty300]

Unless you can prove that 98% of 18 year olds have a highschool diploma and can pass a piss test at the age of 18.

Or that 98% can run a mile in under 9 minutes.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Then Kerry's election would go the way of the dinosaurs.

How Kerry ever got elected to anything is a complete mystery to me. He's like driftwood with hair. Somebody should go to the district he represents and poke one of the voters with a hat pin to see if blood or eiderdown comes out.

And we all know its politically correct to stereotype soldiers.

Well, judging from the reaction to what Kerry said, it doesnt seem to be politically correct at all.

Wow, um, unfortunately the facts do not support your conclusion. According to a recent news report, 96% of enlisted persons have a highschool diploma and 97% of officers have a college education, levels obviously much higher than that of the general public.

Yeah, again, that doesnt surprise me, because the military offers great educational opportunities. People are generally much better educated after completing their service than they were going in.

 

[spankey]

@Igloo, Mobboss, Bugfatty and any other current or former members of the military: My own personal experience has been that virtually everyone Ive ever known who's joined the military did so because of the educational opportunities (which were out of their reach in the civilian world) or because of pressing financial problems. One guy only joined because as a bonus for signing up, the Army agreed to wipe out his substantial debts. I know that lots of people join for patriotic reasons, but IMO the majority join because they have no better options.

Most of the people that I served with in Ranger battalions had love of country and patriotism high on their list. The general troop in the field has the intelligence of their peer group in the civilian world. Comparing 18 year olds to 30 year olds isn't a good comparison. Reenlistments are motivated by love of country much more so than intertia or cash. but I guess that depends on your own anecdotal experience

 

[woody60707]

Yeah, again, that doesnt surprise me, because the military offers great educational opportunities. People are generally much better educated after completing their service than they were going in.

Thats not what he or I said. We said that the Avg enlisted has a much higher % of having a highschool diploma then the avg person in the US. key note: before joinning.

 

[JohnRM]

How Kerry ever got elected to anything is a complete mystery to me. He's like driftwood with hair. Somebody should go to the district he represents and poke one of the voters with a hat pin to see if blood or eiderdown comes out.

Well, judging from the reaction to what Kerry said, it doesnt seem to be politically correct at all.

Yeah, again, that doesnt surprise me, because the military offers great educational opportunities. People are generally much better educated after completing their service than they were going in.

WRONG AGAIN! For most commisioned officer positions, you need a college degree BEFORE being commisioned. Anything else you want to add?

 

[Whomp]

If it was indeed an attempt at a joke (and reading this thread and other sources, I'm now inclined to believe it was), I've got to reassess my opinion of Kerry - downward. If someone wants to believe (and as I noted above, a VietNam vet might have more reason to believe) that military enlistees are less smart/educated than their civilian counterparts, that's one thing. To attempt a joke that poorly scripted, and with such poor timing that it may well actually impact election results, shows a phenomenal lack of real-world people skills.

Bingo. Aren't real world people skills the main ingredient for a servant of the people? Someone who can listen and understand real world problems?
Intelligence may be important but intelligence doesn't necessarily mean smart.

 

[Masquerouge]

Bingo. Aren't real world people skills the main ingredient for a servant of the people? Someone who can listen and understand real world problems?
Intelligence may be important but intelligence doesn't necessarily mean smart.

That's why besides intelligence, there is wisdom

 

[Whomp]

That's why besides intelligence, there is wisdom

Ahh...but Masquerouge I am much more academically intelligent, worldly and maybe even cultured than my grandfather was but I would contend he was smarter.

I think we agreed, right? I'm not so smart remember.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Thats not what he or I said. We said that the Avg enlisted has a much higher % of having a highschool diploma then the avg person in the US. key note: before joinning.

These days a highschool diploma in this country isnt worth the paper its written on. You can have a highschool diploma, and read at a third grade level. The days when having a highschool diploma certified that a person had a certain level of education are looooong gone.

 

[Masquerouge]

Ahh...but Masquerouge I am much more academically intelligent, worldly and maybe even cultured than my grandfather was but I would contend he was smarter.

I think we agreed, right? I'm not so smart remember.

You should stop posting right there. You're on lucky 7's !
(Final Fantasy 7 nerd joke)

 

[spankey]

These days a highschool diploma in this country isnt worth the paper its written on. You can have a highschool diploma, and read at a third grade level. The days when having a highschool diploma certified that a person had a certain level of education are looooong gone.

So how are you measuring intelligence and academic achievement then? By any measure they stack up well against their civilian peer group. Don't besmirch the only statistic that is easily tracked because you want to insist that being in the military is defacto proof for a lack of intelligence....