One of the New Civs is European
- Thread starter Homusubi
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bcaiko
Emperor
I'm still very, very salty about the inclusion of yet ANOTHER European Civilization. I've been cautious about posting here since the announcement, because it irritated me so much.
Especially after Gods and Kings, which was almost exclusively Europe focused, I didn't want to see any more European civs (as unlikely as that was). How many European civs do we have...yet we need another? I feel like throwing up may hands and asking why we don't just give every damned Balkan state a Civ and call it a day.
There are many other civilizations out there to explore, peoples to learn about, cultures that could adapt interestingly to game mechanics. But the current developers can't seem to take off their white people glasses and keep retredding Europe as if that's the only place important history has ever been made. Fans here have littered the Ideas forum with interesting suggestions from all over the world that I would love to see developed long before whatever additional European Civ is coming.
Yup, very salty.
Especially after Gods and Kings, which was almost exclusively Europe focused, I didn't want to see any more European civs (as unlikely as that was). How many European civs do we have...yet we need another? I feel like throwing up may hands and asking why we don't just give every damned Balkan state a Civ and call it a day.
There are many other civilizations out there to explore, peoples to learn about, cultures that could adapt interestingly to game mechanics. But the current developers can't seem to take off their white people glasses and keep retredding Europe as if that's the only place important history has ever been made. Fans here have littered the Ideas forum with interesting suggestions from all over the world that I would love to see developed long before whatever additional European Civ is coming.
Yup, very salty.
JFD
Kathigitarkh
It would be if there was a viable contender for that European spot, and if Venice hadn't almost certainly been replaced with Riga, but there simply isn't, so Ragusa's city-state-ness doesn't have any effect upon it's chances.
With the amount of people [that were] arguing that Venice is just a city-state and never possessed any further cities, a Venetian civ is a chance for enlightenment, frankly.
Ragusa had been independent of Venice since around the 14th century though, and any Venice in the game would likely be a Renaissance Civ, not medieval. Again, it could have been on the list, but it's hardly needed.
The fact that Venice as almost certainly been replaced is a big hint on it's own.
I agree. Although i personally love Poland/Polish culture I feel that their inclusion alongside Portugal which I'm aware fits the new trading system, clutters up Europe way too much. Especially when there are so many other roads to take. Some civs I would have preferred just to even up the map would be Tibet, Israel (I'm surprised they didn't include the in G&K) and Vietnam.
That doesn't even follow logically. Ragusa being replaced is a plus point to Venice, but the reverse doesn't hold. Ragusa would suggest Venice, but the lack of Ragusa doesn't suggest anything but Ragusa still being a City State. An analogy would be that whilst seeing Black Swans confirms their existence, a lack of seeing them doesn't confirm that they don't exist.
ldvhl
ніщо
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- May 15, 2013
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100% agree.
I understand that perspective... I take a different approach: I'd like all cultures represented even if the distinctions are considered minor. Bring on the DLCs I say
I load many mods and most of them are custom historic based civs people have put together.
I'd totally embrace anything Firaxis wants to officially create. I really wish they provide some additional tools to help modders create their own animated leader scenes.
Loaf Warden
(no party affiliation)
It's the length of a possible Venetian city list I would be concerned about. I'm not one of those who falsely thinks they only had one city, because I'm aware they carved out an empire in the eastern Mediterranean. But even so, the city list would be fairly short even with Ragusa. Leave Ragusa out, and it only gets shorter.
Inhalaattori
Emperor
Well I agree that Huns, Celts and Austria for example were not necessary. Poland and Sweden were good additions IMO. Eastern Europe has before had only Russia and nothing else. Now we have Poland and Im happy about that. On the other hand we have 43 Civs, but no Scythia or Khazars?
I think the game is Anglo-Saxon centric and not just simply Eurocentric as you might think. What I dislike most is that there are several non-European Civs that are chosen solely based on their war with with English or Americans. Zulus and Sioux are best examples.
I think Central- and Southern Africa should have more Civs. Kongo, Benin and Ashanti are all deserving Civs.
Really people just hate on European civs too much and lump them all in as Europe. Poland fills a large gap in EASTERN Europe. They only got Russia and maybe the Byzantine Ottoman rule of Balkans. Fills a void for a region that is technically in Europe but pretty different form the areas dominating the civ list. And Portugal just fits the theme far too well not to be included. Really an expansion pack focused on trade and exploration with no Portugal just doesn't make sense. I will reserve judgment on the third European civ until we see it, though I do feel those two could have covered Europe well.
Still remember this expansion is still 2/3 NOT Europe and is filling in areas that were forgotten in prior civs. Two African Civs, A Southeast Asian civ, A Native American civ, A South American modern civ, and a Middle Eastern civ is pretty diverse.
Still remember this expansion is still 2/3 NOT Europe and is filling in areas that were forgotten in prior civs. Two African Civs, A Southeast Asian civ, A Native American civ, A South American modern civ, and a Middle Eastern civ is pretty diverse.
Loaf Warden
(no party affiliation)
There has been no confirmation as yet that any Native American civs made it in.
JFD
Kathigitarkh
Not true. My Venetian mod has just the same number of cities as any other civ. And you don't need to leave Ragusa out. Use the name it's more commonly known as when associated with Venice: Dubrovnik.
City lists are generally quite long, and one city doesn't really mean anything, particularly when it wasn't even part of the "Empire" at it's height, or for most of it's history.
What is important is that Venice seems to have been removed, which was either breaking everything we know about how they add City States, or means that Venice really is in. At this point in time though, we know a whole lot about the city states for Brave New World, and it follows the same rules as it has so far.
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