Outrage

[Formaldehyde]

We have no idea how much of Rmoney's income comes from various sources because he refuses to divulge them. Not to mention given how badly the market has been performing recently that it is doubtful Rmoney made much, if any, income from financial investments in many of the recent tax years.

Obama could also hire similar accountants and attorneys to create similar tax shelters as Rmoney has apparently done. Based on his tax rate, he seems to have not seen fit to do so, or at least not nearly as aggressively.

But the diferent tax rates is a valid point, even though the unfair treatment of capital gains is much of the problem with the existing system. It rewards those who do not use their capital to create new business opportunities which actually creates jobs, instead of investing it in companies which are sending even more jobs offshore while laying Americans off to help assure the best short-term profits possible.

 

[warpus]

It might seem odd or partisan coming from me, but I just want to share my outrage over the lack of applicable law and/or effective efforcement of existing law that has failed in protecting the public from the sort of behavior that we have seen in the finance industry.

That's why you guys need more financial sector regulations, like we do in Canada. However, most people on "your side" seem to be against that sort of thing.

 

[utgotye]

That's not the issue. The issue is that health care is broken. It has become a major drag on the nation's economy. And Americans are dying for no reason other than that the system denies them access. Obamacare is not the best of all possible reforms. But there absolutely had to be some reform. And it would have been a better one if Republicans had been willing to participate in it. By trying to block everything, no matter what,they were rejecting doing their jobs for no reason other than that they wanted to cripple a president they didn't like.

The Republicans were, and are, acting directly hostile to the needs of the US for no reason other than partisan advantage.

Health care has become a major drag on the economy. But taxing it isn't going to drive costs down. Obamacare is a bloated POS that only passed because the Dems used some of the dirtiest and most underhanded tactics I have ever seen. I'm not blind enough to think that there isn't good things in it however. Several of the regulations have already been adopted by insurers and most have stated that they keep them regardless of the law's fate. And yet it still remains extremely unpopular and would be repealed if put to a popular vote. As I have said before, the system worked just fine for 95% of the people 95% of the time. There was no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

That's why you guys need more financial sector regulations, like we do in Canada. However, most people on "your side" seem to be against that sort of thing.

No, not most people; just most Republicans in congress. Big difference.

Health care has become a major drag on the economy. But taxing it isn't going to drive costs down. Obamacare is a bloated POS that only passed because the Dems used some of the dirtiest and most underhanded tactics I have ever seen. I'm not blind enough to think that there isn't good things in it however. Several of the regulations have already been adopted by insurers and most have stated that they keep them regardless of the law's fate. And yet it still remains extremely unpopular and would be repealed if put to a popular vote. As I have said before, the system worked just fine for 95% of the people 95% of the time. There was no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Except that it didn't work for 95% of people 95% of the time. And even if it did, is it acceptable that 5% are left to die and/or go bankrupt for want of access to healthcare and insurance? Do you not value life as a conservative?

Source:
http://money.cnn.com/2011/09/13/news/economy/census_bureau_health_insurance/index.htm

The dirty and underhanded tactics were necessary because the Republicans in congress are dead set on being recalcitrant and blocking all Democratic initiatives - even ones the Republicans came up with like the individual mandate. We could have had a better law if Republicans would have at least argued against it in good faith and offered ammendments not designed to destroy it and the entire congressional law making process.

Obamacare is not a 'tax on healthcare' and in fact it delivers more customers to insurers --> How does more customers equal tax? Also, because most of these customers will come in the form of uninsured but healthy young people, this will drive down the cost of coverage for anyone. It will also mean that irresponsible individuals will no longer recieve emergency care without insurance where the costs of such procedures ultimately get passed on to everyone else. No more freeloading - something I think you should find agreeable.

PS - A huge thank you to Formaldehyde for showing me how to post pictures. It makes proving my case so much easier.

 

[Cutlass]

Health care has become a major drag on the economy. But taxing it isn't going to drive costs down. Obamacare is a bloated POS that only passed because the Dems used some of the dirtiest and most underhanded tactics I have ever seen. I'm not blind enough to think that there isn't good things in it however. Several of the regulations have already been adopted by insurers and most have stated that they keep them regardless of the law's fate. And yet it still remains extremely unpopular and would be repealed if put to a popular vote. As I have said before, the system worked just fine for 95% of the people 95% of the time. There was no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Provide citation for a single dirty or underhanded tactic.

How does Obamacare tax health care?

50,000 Americans die every year for lack of health insurance. 750,000 Americans every year are forced into bankruptcy by health costs because the insurance they have does not pay all of their costs. 16% of the American public does not have any access to routine medical care. And everyone in the system pays $2 for every $1 in health services that they receive. So just how is that working for 95% of the population?

The reality is that it is failing for the whole nation and only getting worse until someone reforms it.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Provide citation for a single dirty or underhanded tactic.

How does Obamacare tax health care?

The thing about these little sayings is that they are handy, intellectually-devoid ways of saying "I don't like it" while somehow giving their statements a truthiness feel.

And the 'dirty and underhanded tactics' bit is another way of saying "I don't know how congress works but I don't like it when the other side has a majority and passes laws that I don't like".

BTW - I hope I don't get hit by a bus before 2014. I'm no freeloader but when your job doesn't provide healthcare, how is it reasonable and/or sane to expect someone to pay more than their rent for private health insurance?
It was working 'fine' before reform indeed.

 

[peter grimes]

The thing about these little sayings is that they are handy, intellectually-devoid ways of saying "I don't like it" while somehow giving their statements a truthiness feel.

And the 'dirty and underhanded tactics' bit is another way of saying "I don't know how congress works but I don't like it when the other side has a majority and passes laws that I don't like".

BTW - I hope I don't get hit by a bus before 2014. I'm no freeloader but when your job doesn't provide healthcare, how is it reasonable and/or sane to expect someone to pay more than their rent for private health insurance?
It was working 'fine' before reform indeed.

Perhaps the better question is "for whom was it working fine before reform?"

I'm gonna guess it was health insurance companies and medical specialists (like drive-thru MRI guys). Also, lawyers. There's always lawyers.

But then to hear a common citizen wax nostalgic about the good ole days when the brick & mortar Mom & Pop HMO could freely discriminate against the poorest among us, while simultaneously crying FREEDOM!... freedom...? profit SHHH!!

Blagh. Blagh blagh blagghh.