Outside Agitators!! Think YOu Can Ruin Our Happy Valley!

[ParkCungHee]

I am for the public interest. Shutting down an establishment or institution and causing good people to lose jobs for no apparent gain is NOT in the public interest.

So you do think criminals should go free if it's inconvenient for others, or don't you?

 

[JohnRM]

So you do think criminals should go free if it's inconvenient for others, or don't you?

Inconvenience is not a matter of public interest. Loss of jobs, commerce, and access to educational services is.

Look, I've already outlined my position on this matter. Spanier and all his boys deserve to go to prison. Penn State should remain open, including football. Those involved in this scandal have been fired. Which criminals do you think are getting away with anything?

Also, in certain circumstances, yes, criminals should go free if it is in the public interest. For instance, those in prison for possession of marijuana and other drugs should go free if the choice is between letting them out or a hardened, violent criminal, due to prison overcrowding. That is matter of public interest.

 

[ParkCungHee]

Inconvenience is not a matter of public interest. Loss of jobs, commerce, and access to educational services is.

Okay, so if punishing someone or something results in loss of jobs, commerce and access to educational services, they shouldn't be punished?

Look, I've already outlined my position on this matter. Spanier and all his boys deserve to go to prison.

Why? They clearly believed their behavior was in the public interest, as having his behavior uncovered, by your own admission is resulting in a loss of jobs, commerce, and access to educational services.
This is what they feared and tried to prevent. Like you, they're concerned with the public interest so why should they go to jail?

 

[JohnRM]

Okay, so if punishing someone or something results in loss of jobs, commerce and access to educational services, they shouldn't be punished?


Why? They clearly believed their behavior was in the public interest, as having his behavior uncovered, by your own admission is resulting in a loss of jobs, commerce, and access to educational services.
This is what they feared and tried to prevent. Like you, they're concerned with the public interest so why should they go to jail?

You are taking your argument to ridiculous extremes. If you can't find your way back to reason, then we should just agree to disagree.

 

[ParkCungHee]

What's being unreasonable here?
Spanier's boys were doing exactly what you wanted. Putting the public interest of the university ahead of the victims, and refusing to sacrifice it on the "altar of justice."

I actually find this more offensive then your earlier comments about the rape victims. The fact that you're willing to condemn those that agree with you when it's convenient shows this all amounts to whining about how it's awfully inconvenient for you that these people spoke up about the University's crime.

 

[JohnRM]

What's being unreasonable here?
Spanier's boys were doing exactly what you wanted. Putting the public interest of the university ahead of the victims, and refusing to sacrifice it on the "altar of justice."

If Sandusky had been exposed in 2001, then there would have been little or no consequences for Penn State. It was in the public interest and still would be today, to expose the man.

I actually find this more offensive then your earlier comments about the rape victims. The fact that you're willing to condemn those that agree with you when it's convenient shows this all amounts to whining about how it's awfully inconvenient for you that these people spoke up about the University's crime.

You really have gone off the deep end and have no clue what you're talking about. The public interest in this matter is to obtain justice with the least expense to the public, at large. What Spanier and his boys did was clearly NOT in the public interest and it would be a hard case to make that anything could ever exceed the public interest of getting a child rapist off the streets. And they didn't do it to protect the public. They did it to protect their own asses.

Oh, and for the record, my comments were NOT about the rape victims. My comments were about the people prodding them to turn their tragedy into a lottery ticket.

 

[ParkCungHee]

If Sandusky had been exposed in 2001, then there would have been little or no consequences for Penn State.

You can't know that, on the other hand, if no one ever found out about it, the university would definitely had no consequences to deal with.

And they didn't do it to protect the public. They did it to protect their own asses.

, if they cared about protecting themselves they would have reported it immediately, not committed a felony for literally no profit for themselves. At least they were willing to stick their asses on the line for these stupid beliefs.

 

[MobBoss]

Yawn! I'm not doing your thinking for you.

Your're not doing much of that in this thread regardless.

I am not overhyping how it WILL turn out.

Dude, go back and re-read some of your comments in this thread. You were on the edge of panic at first.

I am accurately addressing how many people WANT this to turn out. I was worried that legal possibility would combine with public pressure to make much of it happen. I am now told by a source that about the only thing that is going to happen is that the athletic programs will be sanctioned.

'May' get sanctioned. Even that isnt a sure thing yet.

EDIT: I apparently misunderstood the phone conversation. The maximum penalty that the NCAA is settling on is a five-year probation, essentially playing wait-and-see.

Despite what they've said publicly, the NCAA has taken the so-called "death penalty" off the table, even before the Freeh report. So that issue is settled, for me.

The article I read either yesterday or the day before didnt say this. Has there been an update?

We agree in principle. I think its a better idea to penalize them by taaking all of the revenue generated by athletics and donating it to charity or whatever. It saves job, football careers, and still sends that message.

Not really.

 

[JohnRM]

The article I read either yesterday or the day before didnt say this. Has there been an update?

Somebody I know who is somebody who knows things. This person isn't always right, but if I was a betting man...

It was made to sound as though the NCAA had already pretty much decided what they're going to do, and none of it will really be made official until after the start of the season.

 

[DroopyTofu]

I thought this might be relevant.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/additional-findings-show-every-penn-state-student,28842/?ref=auto

 

[JohnRM]

That is definitely the way that some people are acting; As if we all knew about it and condone it; As though it were institutional policy to rape children. Nobody talks about the fact that police officers neglected to do anything about this in 1998. They don't talk about the fact that the school of the kid from 1998 didn't do anything. They don't talk about the fact that a judge had been made aware of the accusations and opted not to do anything. No, its just Penn State that is charged with this bad culture concept. Frankly, I don't care about football. I think its an awful sport and too dangerous for anyone to play, but I'm not about to support the termination of the sport when it will only punish those that had nothing to do with this and crush the economy of Centre County. Somehow that gets translated into, "I support child rape." Why? Because these people just want to hurt somebody, and it may as well be the rest of us.

 

[downtown]

" off the table, even before the Freeh report. So that issue is settled, for me..

No they haven't. They specifically said it wasn't off the table two days ago on the Tavis Smiley show. The NCAA gave USC and Ohio State 5 years probation for free tattoos and a free apartment. There is simply no way in hell that would be the punishment the NCAA levies.

It is certainly not a given that the NCAA will levy the Death Penalty. It is still possible that they will do nothing at all. If they do, they are required to either shut down the program for the year, or more heavily penalize that probation. Baylor got half a season shut down. Miami (FL) is getting more than 5 years in a few months (it was debated they would get the death penalty too, but now I think a bowl ban and scholarship losses are more likely).

The Big Ten is also holding discussions about suspending Penn State for a year.

I also promise you the NCAA will make a decision before the start of the season. PSU has one more week to respond to the NCAA inquiries, and a decision should come shortly therearefter.

 

[JohnRM]

No they haven't. They specifically said it wasn't off the table two days ago on the Tavis Smiley show. The NCAA gave USC and Ohio State 5 years probation for free tattoos and a free apartment. There is simply no way in hell that would be the punishment the NCAA levies.

It is certainly not a given that the NCAA will levy the Death Penalty. It is still possible that they will do nothing at all. If they do, they are required to either shut down the program for the year, or more heavily penalize that probation. Baylor got half a season shut down. Miami (FL) is getting more than 5 years in a few months (it was debated they would get the death penalty too, but now I think a bowl ban and scholarship losses are more likely).

The Big Ten is also holding discussions about suspending Penn State for a year.

I also promise you the NCAA will make a decision before the start of the season. PSU has one more week to respond to the NCAA inquiries, and a decision should come shortly therearefter.

Again, this did not come from the NCAA. It came from somebody I know who is somebody who knows things. So...take it for what its worth. To you, it ain't much. To me, this individual is right a lot and wrong a little, so...

What I was told is that PSU is doing and saying all of the right things. If they continue to do that, then its 5 years probation and some other minor details that I wasn't told about and didn't ask. Initially, there apparently was discussion about letting the program ride for two or three years and then shutting it down so that people have time to graduate or transfer, or whatever, but according to my source, despite what they've said publicly, the death penalty is off the table. It sounded (to my source) that the prevailing reason for 5 years probation is simply that the athletic end of the scandal was limited to one guy (Paterno) involved with the football team and that it wasn't necessarily an organization-wide thing.

Now, this part is just me, but I get the feeling from the way my conversation went that the NCAA would like to do nothing, but that they feel like they can't do nothing, because of public pressure. That kind of makes the whole "the death penalty hasn't been ruled out" announcement kind of make sense, if they had already decided against it. They have to seem tough, but they really don't want to be tough.

Frankly, I've been reading a lot more about the kind of power that Joe Paterno did have and the more I do read about it, it stuns me. Tim Curley was Paterno's boss, but from what I've read and heard, Curley was afraid of Paterno and never went against him, because he was afraid that Paterno could get him fired. I remember hearing that Paterno got some woman fired, before, so that is probably true. JoePa certainly had a cult of personality. I mean, I always knew how popular and powerful Paterno was, but I never realized he was so powerful that even his bosses felt threatened. It really seems like he had too much power and more likely that he is as guilty as they say. I still don't think they need to shut down football. They just need to make institutional changes to prevent any one man from becoming that influential, ever again.

I am not claiming to know. I am just claiming to know someone that finds these things out and shares it with me on occasion.


EDIT: Oh, and I was told that the NCAA wouldn't make/announce a final decision until September.

 

[downtown]

Welp, looks like your source was full of crap. From CBS News:

(CBS News) CBS News has learned that the NCAA will announce what a high-ranking association source called "unprecedented" penalties against both the Penn State University football team and the school.

"I've never seen anything like it," the source told correspondent Armen Keteyian.

NCAA President Mark Emmert will make the announcement Monday morning at 9 a.m. at the organization's headquarters in Indianapolis.

The penalties come in the wake of the independent report by former FBI Director Louis Freeh that chronicled repeated efforts by four top Penn State officials, including former football Joe Paterno, to conceal allegations of serial child sex abuse Jerry Sandusky over a 14-year period.

The NCAA had been awaiting the school's response to four key questions pertaining to the sex abuse scandal, including issues involving institutional control and ethics.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-400_162-57477382/ncaa-source-unprecedented-penalties-against-penn-state/

That means the death penalty kids. The NCAA NEVER works this fact, which leads me (and several other sportswriters) to think that Penn State has accepted some sort of deal. I think a 1 year end of the football program, 5 years probation, and a Bowl or TV ban is on the table.

The B1G is still debating kicking Penn State out as well.

Given what USC, Miami and Ohio State got, giving Penn State only five years probation would have resulted in Congress disbanding the NCAA.

 

[MobBoss]

DT, well, I wouldnt say a one year ban is unprecendented since thats actually less than what SMU got. I'm thinking a multi-year ban maybe?

And John, I sincerely hope your're not getting financial advice from this person that 'knows things'.

 

[downtown]

It looks like I was wrong...sources are now telling ESPN that the penalty will NOT be the death penalty. Penn State football will not be suspended. However, it is apparently a batch of unique penalties so punitive that Penn State will "wish" they had the death penalty. Something along the lines of a multi-year bowl ban, probation, AND SIGNIFICANT scholarship deductions. If a scholarship and bowl ban extend beyond two years, Penn State will not have a competitive football team for about a decade.

http://espn.go.com/college-football...-facing-death-penalty-monday-ncaa-source-says

NCAA president Mark Emmert has decided to punish Penn State with severe penalties likely to include a significant loss of scholarships and loss of multiple bowls, a source close to the decision told ESPN's Joe Schad on Sunday morning.

But Penn State will not receive the so-called "death penalty" that would have suspended the program for at least one year, the source said.

The penalties, however, are considered to be so harsh that the death penalty may have been preferable, the source said.

For what it is worth, Joe Schad is a horrible reporter, so he might be wrong. If this is true, this may be worse for Penn State.

 

[JohnRM]

DT, well, I wouldnt say a one year ban is unprecendented since thats actually less than what SMU got. I'm thinking a multi-year ban maybe?

And John, I sincerely hope your're not getting financial advice from this person that 'knows things'.

"Insert foot here."

Do you want this tattooed above your upper lip or on your chin? I understand it if you have a mustache.

 

[JohnRM]

It looks like I was wrong...sources are now telling ESPN that the penalty will NOT be the death penalty. Penn State football will not be suspended. However, it is apparently a batch of unique penalties so punitive that Penn State will "wish" they had the death penalty. Something along the lines of a multi-year bowl ban, probation, AND SIGNIFICANT scholarship deductions. If a scholarship and bowl ban extend beyond two years, Penn State will not have a competitive football team for about a decade.

http://espn.go.com/college-football...-facing-death-penalty-monday-ncaa-source-says



For what it is worth, Joe Schad is a horrible reporter, so he might be wrong. If this is true, this may be worse for Penn State.

Yea, sounds like all of the things I was being told last week. Its gonna be five years probation. The "other stuff" sounded like it was going to be minor, but that's just the way it sounded over the phone. I didn't get any detail on that stuff. The only other thing that I heard of interest was something about future scholarships, but it sounded like that will only apply to new students, not those already there. There was a three-year time-frame mentioned, but I don't know what that was about. I honestly stopped listening, at that point.

 

[JollyRoger]

If they really wanted to screw over Penn State, they would appoint Craig James AD or something.

 

[downtown]

CBS reports that in addition to dismantling the football team, PSU will be on the hook for between 30 and 60 million dollars in fines, which will establish a foundation for children's causes. The Athletic Department takes in about 112 million a year...even a 30 million dollar fine will help nuke all of their sports programs.

The NCAA is expected to allow any PSU athlete to transfer without penalty. It is unknown if they will be allowed to transfer to another B1G school.