DroopyTofu
Double Bass Double Bass
How does this affect the other sports teams in the school? Will the track or ping pong team be affected?
Outside Agitators!! Think YOu Can Ruin Our Happy Valley!
- Thread starter Slobadog
- Start date
Yeah, this will hurt the entire athletic department. Typically, PSU brings in around 120 million a year, with the VAST majority of that revenue coming from football (ticket sales, TV rights, t-shirts, etc). The NCAA fine is 60 million (which can be paid in 5 installments), and the Big Ten is taking away about 17 million (which I believe is spread out over 4 years, so not that bad).
The entire AD is going to be feeling some budget cuts, especially if the football team is unable to remain so wildly profitable (and since they may be one of the 10 worst teams in the country by 2014...they likely wont be making as much money). While Penn State isn't likely to need to cut any sports, their entire athletic department budget is going to really be hurting...and unprofitable teams (like track, or womens sports), will take it hard.
cav scout
The Continuum
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2008
- Messages
- 2,630
Then I guess that means the death penalty wasn't really a death penalty...
madviking
north american scum
Living death penalty. Penn State are the living dead.
Euthanasia penalty.
JohnRM
Don't make me destroy you
The NCAA missed the point, which is why I don't like college sports, to begin with. All they did was hurt a lot of kids with this decision. But, if it teaches these students not to rape children, quells the anger of the public, and polishes the image of Mark Emmert, then it was well worth it.
Fines going to charity is probably the only single action that will have a real impact.
Fines going to charity is probably the only single action that will have a real impact.
Slobadog
King
Fines going to charity is unfortunalty too late. Admittedly like the penalties themselves. None of this gaurntees future prevention. All of these valley folk are talking about it. But before they mostly talked about Paterno. Anyone can give something after the fact in order to look good. Industrialists Carnegie gave billions away-after he was dead, couldn't use it anymore and had ruthlessly wiped out competion and exploited poor ignorant incoming immigrants. (Maybe even my ancestors, have to check.) Real caring and self sacrifice would come before hand. So we'd have to see if another such scandal is prevented in the future.
The actual needed thing is culture change. I'm not fully locked in behind harsh penalties or even the (Maybe we should call it the death and back to life penalty.) If culture change could made possible without collateral damage i am for it. Culture change is tricky. All kinds of strategies can help including penalties. But penalties like many other things don't gaurantee the necessary effect. My view is just that harsh penalties would be better than nothing but i'm open to other possibilites. But they have to be comprehensive and descisive.
In any event for culture change to occur the football progam and PSU need to have reduced influence in State College anyway. So that particular result of the penalties needed to happen no matter what, The question is wether outright penalties is the way to cause that.
JohnRM, I see, that kind of accident. So it was more than just PSU you were emotional about. Thanks for saying that. Really helps to uderstand your previous highly stressed out statements. Previously i had just thought you as mere PSU fanboy. My sympthaties. I would probably have overreacted myself after such a event.
The actual needed thing is culture change. I'm not fully locked in behind harsh penalties or even the (Maybe we should call it the death and back to life penalty.) If culture change could made possible without collateral damage i am for it. Culture change is tricky. All kinds of strategies can help including penalties. But penalties like many other things don't gaurantee the necessary effect. My view is just that harsh penalties would be better than nothing but i'm open to other possibilites. But they have to be comprehensive and descisive.
In any event for culture change to occur the football progam and PSU need to have reduced influence in State College anyway. So that particular result of the penalties needed to happen no matter what, The question is wether outright penalties is the way to cause that.
JohnRM, I see, that kind of accident. So it was more than just PSU you were emotional about. Thanks for saying that. Really helps to uderstand your previous highly stressed out statements. Previously i had just thought you as mere PSU fanboy. My sympthaties. I would probably have overreacted myself after such a event.
I'm not sure why this wouldn't work to prevent similar incidents? The penalties for not being forthcoming (whether thats for competition violations, or actual crimes) are AWFULLY steep. If you're interested in protecting your university image or your sports brands (like PSU), sounds like the NCAA is making it verrrrry appealing to disclose that info ASAP.
Formaldehyde
Both Fair And Balanced
I see nothing wrong with this punishment. I can only hope that this means the NCAA will continue to play hardball with colleges about moral issues in the future. In general, they have gotten away with far too much for far too long. Many have created dynasties that are worth hundreds of millions of dollars and which have become even greater and more powerful than the colleges themselves.
It is time the tail stops wagging the dog. The purpose of college is not to be a minor league for professional sports teams.
It is time the tail stops wagging the dog. The purpose of college is not to be a minor league for professional sports teams.
JohnRM
Don't make me destroy you
The presumptive aim of the NCAA was:
(1) Punish those involved
(2) Prevent future occurrences
(3) Elevate academics above athletics
(1) The NCAA punished just about everyone EXCEPT those that were involved. Paterno is dead and everyone else was fired. None of these people are employed with Penn State, anymore. Go figure!
(2) You know what rapists do? They rape people! You know what enablers do? They enable! If prison and civil suits aren't enough to deter these people, then sanctions placed upon their FORMER employer, who just fired them, won't, either.
(3) ''Football will never again be placed ahead of educating, nurturing and protecting young people,'' -- Mark Emmert. This is the single-most laughable comment I've heard, thus far. At just about every other major university in the country athletics is, and still will be, more important academics. Sports brings in revenues. Academics does not. The NCAA has not and did not intend to change this fact.
(1) Punish those involved
(2) Prevent future occurrences
(3) Elevate academics above athletics
(1) The NCAA punished just about everyone EXCEPT those that were involved. Paterno is dead and everyone else was fired. None of these people are employed with Penn State, anymore. Go figure!
(2) You know what rapists do? They rape people! You know what enablers do? They enable! If prison and civil suits aren't enough to deter these people, then sanctions placed upon their FORMER employer, who just fired them, won't, either.
(3) ''Football will never again be placed ahead of educating, nurturing and protecting young people,'' -- Mark Emmert. This is the single-most laughable comment I've heard, thus far. At just about every other major university in the country athletics is, and still will be, more important academics. Sports brings in revenues. Academics does not. The NCAA has not and did not intend to change this fact.
JohnRM
Don't make me destroy you
I really hope so, too. I seriously doubt it, though. College sports is big business and the the NCAA's power is directly proportional to just how big that business is.
3 weeks on you continue to miss the point. :whoosh:
1. Paterno's wins were stripped from the record. That's a direct punishment against the dead man who helped to cover up and enable the child-rape to continue.
2. The NCAA is punishing the INSTITUTIONAL MINDSET that consistently placed the reputation of a silly game-playing department above the interests of children, the community, the students, and the employees.
3. Yes, you point out the problem with ALL college athletics. In my perfect world there would be NO sports associated with any colleges. Your argument is a point in favor of eliminating all athletics at all colleges.... not sure if that's what you intended.
JohnRM
Don't make me destroy you
A punishment that has no material effect on the power athletics has over academics, the probability of something like this occurring again, or punishes anyone actually involved in the cover-up.
We can revisit this conversation in a few years and see whether or not, by-in-large, athletics still trumps academics at the vast majority of colleges. Me thinks, I already know the answer to that.
The world must be perfect, outside of the United States, because the U.S. is the only country in the world that ties amateur athletics to higher education. I am, indeed, in favor of the separation of amateur athletics and higher education.
JohnRM
Don't make me destroy you
Let's try this. Why are athletics more important than academics at most major universities?
MobBoss
Off-Topic Overlord
Couple of points: If you think this has no effect on the power of athletics at Penn State you're very wrong. Secondly, the NCAA has no real (i.e. criminal) jurisdiction over those involved in the cover-up. Its up to the courts to punish that.
This punishment wasnt about that though, it was about sending a message to schools to not cover up their dirty laundry. I think it sent that message very well indeed.
Well, perhaps you should consider going to a school that doesnt have an athletics program. They do exist you know.
I honestly don't think they are. I think that for a certain group...maybe twenty or so, it does because their university brand is 100% tied to their football program, and their academics are not strong enough to stand on their own. In the era where the market for students is hyper competitive, having a strong athletics program is seen as a major means to the end of strong academics.
Penn State was somewhat unique in the promotion of their football program to DemiGod status, in that it is actually a good school.
I've seen you say that you're a sports writer. So you *should* be more familiar with this stuff than me, so perhaps you can either correct or affirm this small observation from my personal experience:
If you look at colleges and universities in the east (I've not travelled much in the west), you'll find an increasing emphasis on the importance of football programs as you head from north to south.
University of Maine and University of New Hampshire have football programs, but Hockey is the sport that dominates the students' enthusiasm. Even so, these schools aren't known for their sports. Rather, they have world-renown scientific research programs - Maine for Marine Biology, UNH for Paleo-climatology.
The further south we go, the stronger the emphasis on sports - football, specifically. UT has a huge program, but that's dwarfed by UA. I was stunned the first time I went to Alabama to visit my brother at Auburn. The streets were actually paved with homages to previous football personalities. And they claimed to be an educational university.
Perhaps my experience is unique, but it seems to me that the further south one goes, the heavier the emphasis on football over academics.
