Paris burning

Bozo Erectus

Master Baker
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Jan 22, 2003
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I think we're all getting fed up with this topic, including me, but I just couldnt let this one go without commenting. Notice towards the end of the story, how its explained that the people rioting are not at fault. No, the guilty party is French society. This is the sort of illogic that makes my hair stand on end.

Rioting youths opened fire on police and set dozens of vehicles ablaze in a seventh night of violence in Paris.

In escalating unrest, shots were fired at police and firefighters, while gangs besieged a police station, set fire to a car showroom and threw petrol bombs.

At least 15 people were arrested and nine injured across north-east Paris.

France's government is facing mounting criticism of its handling of the riots, triggered by the deaths last week of two teenagers of African origin.

Bouna Traore, aged 15 and Zyed Benna, 17, were electrocuted at an electricity sub-station. Local people say they were fleeing police during a disturbance, a claim the authorities deny.

Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy met with the boys' families on Thursday, as a criminal investigation and an internal police inquiry into their deaths were opened.

Map of riot areas

French Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin and Mr Sarkozy cancelled overseas trips to hold a crisis meeting in the face of the growing dissatisfaction with the government's failure to quell the violence.

Both men are likely rivals for the presidency in 2007, and their different approaches to the rioting has split the cabinet.

Mr Sarkozy has caused controversy by labelling the rioters as "scum" and saying many of the suburbs need "industrial cleaning", but Mr de Villepin has preached a more conciliatory message, urging ministers not to "stigmatise" vast areas.

Running clashes

Wednesday night's violence erupted in 10 areas across the Paris department of Seine-Saint-Denis, home to poor, largely immigrant communities with high levels of unemployment.


Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy in Clichy-sous-Bois

Deaths that set off unrest
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Locals officials said rioters set fire to 177 vehicles across the region. In the flashpoint town of Aulnay-sous-Bois, youths set fire to a car showroom and damaged two primary schools, a post office and a shopping centre

Two live rounds were fired in the town of La Corneueve, and fire fighters in Saint-Denis and Noisy-le-Sec were also shot at, a senior local official said.

There was violence in another northern area, Le Blanc Mesnil, where a French TV truck was overturned and burned. In the western Hauts-de-Seine department, a police station was bombarded with petrol bombs, the AFP news agency reported.

The situation also remained tense in Clichy-sous-Bois, where the teenagers died, and where the rioting first broke out.

In recent days there have also been incidents involving groups of youths in other departments near Paris, including the Val-d'Oise, Seine-et-Marne and Yvelines.

Alienation

Police said they made more than a dozen arrests overnight.

Francois Masanet, secretary general of the French police union, described the situation as "dramatic", and warned that the violence could escalate.

Burned car in Clichy-sous-Bois
Many youths in the suburbs feel alienated from French society

French politicians are facing up to the reality that many of the mainly immigrant populations in cities have long been in a state of chronic tension, says the BBC's European Affairs correspondent William Horsley.

Immigrants and their offspring make up 10% of France's population, but many are without French citizenship and the right to vote. They also suffer the highest rate of unemployment, and their relations with the police are generally difficult or hostile, our correspondent says.

Dalil Boubakeur, the head of the Paris mosque and the president of the French Council for the Muslim Religion, said living conditions for Muslim immigrants in the suburbs were unacceptable.

They "must be given the conditions to live with dignity as human beings", not in "disgraceful squats".
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4401670.stm
 
I agree. Even though it is societies fault that the situation was able to happen it is the people who are ultimantly to blame.
 
They still have'nt sent in troops? Whats up with that? They should do that along with martial law and curfew.
 
Is it just me, or does it seem funny that they will dispatch commandos to stop striking workers but not quell a riot?
 
Winner said:
I am more and more inclined to agree with a typically American solution - send in troops.

Used to be called a Communist solution - how times have changed.
 
silver 2039 said:
They still have'nt sent in troops? Whats up with that? They should do that along with martial law and curfew.

They are hopelessly trying to calm the situation, so the response is very soft so far.

I remember somehow similar situation in Eastern Slovakia. Slovak gov. cutted welfare to about a half and the gypsies there started looting stores and stealing stuff. They deployed troops very quickly (no one was killed or injured and the looting stopped).
 
Kayak said:
Is it just me, or does it seem funny that they will dispatch commandos to stop striking workers but not quell a riot?

You dont get it, this riot is not the rioters fault. Its the societys fault. The people burning cars are victims of society.
 
I used to think that living in a blameless society where no one is accountable for their actions was something limited to the USA. I guess times have changed indeed.
 
Of course society is to blame. For decades of failed immigration policy, to start with. And after all those people doing it are (more or less...) part of society. It's not a spontaneous alien invasion.

That said, it is horrible but it was bound to happen.
 
This topic just begs the question: Is it just the teenagers, or are all French prone to overkill. Rioting because two teenagers, chased by the police electrocute themselves. I just think that is a poor reason to riot and vandalize.
 
Moff Jerjerrod said:
I used to think that living in a blameless society where no one is accountable for their actions was something limited to the USA. I guess times have changed indeed.
Nah, everyone is just a victim now.;)
 
They're not French. @tank
 
Not really, I know that most of the people I know wouldn't react to that by rioting and setting cars on fire.

Although this may be linked to society, it is ultimately the individuals repsonsibility.
 
Tank_Guy#3 said:
This topic just begs the question: Is it just the teenagers, or are all French prone to overkill. Rioting because two teenagers, chased by the police electrocute themselves. I just think that is a poor reason to riot and vandalize.
Your kidding right? Look at the history of riots in the US. The French don't have any sort of monopoly on them. They are not rioting because of this really, this is just the flashpoint to a long period of discontent. Rioting is stupid period IMO.
 
Rambuchan said:
I've been following this on the news and have my thoughts on it. But I don't wish to discuss it.
Lets not talk about things that make us uncomfortable and maybe they'll go away by themselves. Thats what led to the current situation in the first place.
 
Bozo Erectus said:
Lets not talk about things that make us uncomfortable and maybe they'll go away by themselves. Thats what led to the current situation in the first place.
I do talk about it, but just not here. It takes up too much time. Sorry about that. Just wanted to let you know that I am talking about it irl.
 
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