PAX Conference analysis thread

[OzzyKP]

Winged Hussar Details

Tool tips! Yay!!

 

[Odans]

Well.., geographically they are in SE Asia.., but culturally they are influenced by sinosphere (along with China, Korea, n Japan).., while the rest SE Asian civs is influenced by Indosphere (India and Siam)..

So.., yeah..
Maybe we can do that..

but don't remind them of that, Vietnam is defined by how not chinese they are as well

 

[cybrxkhan]

Personally I consider Vietnam part of the East Asian sphere, even if they are geographically Southeast Asian, given the strong influence of China - for better or worse.

but don't remind them of that, Vietnam is defined by how not chinese they are as well

Indeed. Unfortunately, I get the sense that much of the Vietnamese national identity is formed around how we're not Chinese and how we will always live another day to fight those evil Chinese. Actually, this idea has been floating around in academia too (that Vietnam's national identity revolves around this), if the reading materials for the class I took on Southeast Asian cultures is to go by.


Anyhow, back to the main topic, while before I would have been skeptical as to whether two Asian civilizations would have made it at once, BNW is a rather unusual step for the Civ series at least in terms of new civs - it's the first time the civ series will have more than 32-34 official civs, and even in Gods and Kings they were already introducing some unexpected wild cards (Huns and Sweden for Gods and Kings, and now in BNW all of the confirmed civs are new to the series). So I think it's possible - though not certain, obviously - to have Indonesia and Vietnam, or perhaps osme other combination, of Asian civs. It's sorely needed, anyways. At the least, we're definitely getting new and interesting civilizations.

 

[fuzzatron717]

Tool tips! Yay!!

tooltips have been there all the time since the game release.

 

[crawf0rd]

Anywhere we can see the full panel? I want to re-watch the pueblo part, as well as the early build of CiV.

 

[PhilBowles]

I dont buy that the Pueblo are gone.

If you listen to Dennis concerning Pope and the Pueblo, he very clear says that its the first time they've "had to stop production on a leader". Later he concludes, "and thats one example of where we actually had to turn around and not include a leader in the game." He never says the Civ is gone, almost everything he says involves Pope, not the Pueblo. I'm betting they're still in, just with a less "spiritual"/controversial leader. And he even mentions they did research on other leaders before selecting Pope, implying they had other options.

That's likely to be overthinking it. Everywhere in Civ V articles and press releases so far, the words "leader" and "civilization" have been used as synonyms. The Brave New World announcement referred to nine new "leaders", whereupon speculation was rife that this might mean new leaders for some of the existing civs, but it turned out (unsurprisingly) to mean 9 new civs.

 

[Muzzway]

The demo didn't appear to show any use for tourism other than achieving a cultural victory. The great works themselves, apart from generating tourism, were pretty weak: apart from the +2 tourism they generate, they only yielded an additional +2 culture. Hardly seems worth giving up a golden age for that under normal circumstances.

So, are great works and tourism just a means of achieving a cultural victory, or is there any other use for them? If the latter is the case, then the new cultural victory seems pretty contrived to me. At least generating culture is useful beyond going for a victory condition.

 

[Camikaze]

Anywhere we can see the full panel? I want to re-watch the pueblo part, as well as the early build of CiV.

There's a link in the OP.

 

[steveg700]

There's a link in the OP.

But that doesn't have the part about the Pueblo.

 

[steveg700]

The demo didn't appear to show any use for tourism other than achieving a cultural victory. The great works themselves, apart from generating tourism, were pretty weak: apart from the +2 tourism they generate, they only yielded an additional +2 culture. Hardly seems worth giving up a golden age for that under normal circumstances.

So, are great works and tourism just a means of achieving a cultural victory, or is there any other use for them? If the latter is the case, then the new cultural victory seems pretty contrived to me. At least generating culture is useful beyond going for a victory condition.

Tourism has an offensive component. If you're not generating sufficient culture, another civs' tourism can make your citizens unhappy.

Note that the amphitheater, opera house, and museum all only generated +1 culture by themselves.

 

[Camikaze]

But that doesn't have the part about the Pueblo.

The first link, to the recording of the whole day's feed, has the entire Firaxis panel discussion, starting at about 5:20:00.

 

[Kimuyama]

The part about the pueblo starts at 5:55

I noticed that Ed Beach began talking about the entire civilization in past tense, but Dennis Shirk worded it as if only the leader was cut.
We've truly got ourselves quite a riddle, y'all

 

[kaspergm]

The demo didn't appear to show any use for tourism other than achieving a cultural victory. The great works themselves, apart from generating tourism, were pretty weak: apart from the +2 tourism they generate, they only yielded an additional +2 culture. Hardly seems worth giving up a golden age for that under normal circumstances.

So, are great works and tourism just a means of achieving a cultural victory, or is there any other use for them? If the latter is the case, then the new cultural victory seems pretty contrived to me. At least generating culture is useful beyond going for a victory condition.

The Great Musician shown in post #29 in this thread does not seem to have the option to start a Golden Age ...

 

[Pouakai]

Has anyone thought to simply tweet 2K the question for the Q&A session tomorrow? I would, but I don't have a twitter

 

[camfrlas]

anyone knows when they'll be answering twitter questions? i hope they'll settle pueblo/not-pueblo disscussions, since their statements where kind of both ways.

 

[Pouakai]

I remember something about 11:30 ish. They mentioned it at about the same time as they told us to tweet questions

 

[Volapyk]

I think someone, earlier in the thread, said they tweeted the question about the Pueblo.

Anyone else stumbled to the question, how are great artists/musicians created? I doubt they follow the standard great people generation, why? Because have you seen the number of great works you can have? It is simply too high to ever fill out, so either they have a separate system, or great people are much easier to generate. The latter would mean you could have a much faster tech rate based on just generating great scientist in the numbers required for great works.

Which will lead to the question of how are they generated then? Social policies could certainly generate them, maybe religion could as well to better tie in religion to how to win culturally instead of just defending against others winning with it. Since this is a 'cultural victory' I would assume they are generated through culture, somehow, maybe like great generals/admirals they will spawn based upon overall culture generated.

 

[Camikaze]

The Great Musician shown in post #29 in this thread does not seem to have the option to start a Golden Age ...

It does, however, have some kind of 'strength', whereas the Great Artist does not. I wonder what that means?

 

[snipperrabbit!!]

I think someone, earlier in the thread, said they tweeted the question about the Pueblo.

Anyone else stumbled to the question, how are great artists/musicians created? I doubt they follow the standard great people generation, why? Because have you seen the number of great works you can have? It is simply too high to ever fill out, so either they have a separate system, or great people are much easier to generate. The latter would mean you could have a much faster tech rate based on just generating great scientist in the numbers required for great works.

Which will lead to the question of how are they generated then? Social policies could certainly generate them, maybe religion could as well to better tie in religion to how to win culturally instead of just defending against others winning with it. Since this is a 'cultural victory' I would assume they are generated through culture, somehow, maybe like great generals/admirals they will spawn based upon overall culture generated.

My bet is on pool separation :

- on one side GP generation for GScientist, GMerchant & GEngineer

- on the other side, GArtist, GWriter & GMusician are generated independently from the above ( possible less steep curve )

 

[Knut_Are_M]

something odd about tradeing food. it said nothing about food getting subtracted from the city that sends it. warsaw could send 9 food , but it only prodused 7.12 surplus food . I wish they exsplained the accual game mechanics.

If it accually gave + food without any other cost then 1 less trade possibilty why would anyone want to trade for gold if gold had as low a value as in G&K?

this leaves me to think they changed alot of game mechanics and we will not fully understand them untill we get to play the game.

In which case it is only a small matter of time before we solve it and totally break any illusion of balance.