PBEM Playtest of AWAW

Sorry about the delay everyone. Due to an exam I have not been able to play my turn until now.

Nothing much to report from Russia though. Massing on troops on both fronts. Avoiding the superior Japanese fleet. Defending Leningrad harbor from a surprise Finnish longdistance airattack. Freeing supressed workers and farmers on the Balkans.
 
How come my bombers get shot down all the time by defending german tanks but manage to take down ME 109s without suffering a scratch?
I thought we where supposed to use the fighters to defend our bombers and cities?
Also I think bombers should stand somewhat better chances against ground troops, I was unable to do deliver more than one blow to the each german tank in the city.

I will look into that Henrik. How the unit balance works is one of the prime test objects for this PBEM.
 
Obviously my fighters did no good defending my bombers (that is what was "hiding") Thought I'd do a lot better than that if you had no casulaties from the encounter.
 
The war continues

Two british cruisers sunk in the Atlantic

In France Reims has been taken.

To the east Brest-Litovsk and Lublin have been liberated.
An air strike on Riga destroyed a Soviet tank division but the entire city has also been wiped out. A concentration of Soviet forces still stands in the cities ruins.

In the Balkans Sarajevo has been taken.
 
Originally posted by Boli
Obviously my fighters did no good defending my bombers (that is what was "hiding") Thought I'd do a lot better than that if you had no casulaties from the encounter.
Almost no US casualties. A couple of cruisers was lost however, in one particular desperate maneuvre against a japanese battleship. Most japanese units were destroyed by the navy, and not by the air force. Japanese fighters didn't stand much of a chance against US battleships.
 
Am I wrong in thinking that air units should only be attacked by other air units?

I left my air support there mainly because I expected that the fighters should have a good go at defending against other fighters. They were escorting the bombers on their bombing run and took no part in the action themselves so they should be at pretty high altitude - too high for the battleships to engage anyways.

My fault for not reading the unit specs closely enough - but I was just assuming. Though it seems a bit off to me to have ships take out air units. This is BEFORE the advent of ship to air missiles otherwise the best they could do would be to blanket the sky with shrapnel and fire machine guns - both tactics used against low flying attacking aircraft i.e. defensively.

What does anyone else think about this?

By all means have increased defensive power against air I f you think it suits – but I would be seriously surprised if you can find an incident where a battleship attacked and destroyed fighters that were in the air.

~ Boli
 
I think its reasonable enough to have battleships capable of fighting air stacks. With too strong defensive and exclusive air units you'll be able to hide ships (and all kinds of things) under fighter cover. This is unreasonable, because it creates situations where attacking fighters will then meet defending ships (or tanks etc, any unit below with higher defences), and fail miserably trying to engage the enemy fighter in a dogfight.

The outrageous importance of fighters is one extremely unreasonable (but very enjoyable) aspect of Kobys ZWK. I do think, however, that it places too great an importance on the strategical use of air power over infantry and terrain.

I feel this scenario as a whole has a different, interesting focus on infantry and the layout of terrain, so a fighter role within keeping of this focus, perhaps as a shortrange troubleshooter (with slightly better defences) would be ok. Bombers on their own could be assumed to come with their own fighter escort, or fly with high altitude, and accordingly have better defences.

BTW, Boli, your most serious casualties seems to be ships. The three lost carriers must be quite a serious blow to japanese economy... ;)
 
I have a differing opinion on this - WWII showed to all the nations of the world that battleships have not much use in the "field" of future wars due to the superiority of air units I think that it should be reflected in the game. Battleships should remain and continue to be powerful forces on the ship-to-ship ship-to-ground combat but against air units they have (and should prove) ineffective

Though I DO think that fighters should be used differently. As it stands they are useless to attack land units/sea units and what I thought was their use to protect the bombers as an escort was once again proved wrong.

One option I DO offer though is that fighter have to return to base(as normal civ2) and have two main uses to defend cities/carriers and to attack bombers. Untill the advent of the fighter/bomber this is what they were designed to do. The bombers should only be able to be attacked by fighters NOT battleships (which is where I have my qualms about), maybe there can be a unit called a “fighter escort” that will defend the otherwise defenceless bombers

I understand people will “stack” units underneath the bombers thus protecting them and this is what I have never liked even in the normal game of civ2 but there is nothing you can really do against that save an agreement between the people playing (I never intentionally do it), but it just seems ludicrous that battleship can shoot down a squadron of fighters/bombers.

Maybe you can have a ship that can attack air units but NOT battleships, missile cruisers (or AGEIS cruisers) can engage air units but missiles weren’t developed overly much until the later stages of the war.

WWII in the pacific underlined the importance of airpower, which is why most countries abandoned building the battleships and concentrated on the smaller cruisers and carriers as their navys during the war



All that crap aside:

Fighters SHOULD be the defence of carriers – without a fighter defence a carrier is pretty much a sitting duck so a unit of fighters should be the defence of a carrier

Fighters should have the range to “sally forth” and attack bombers, but because of the crap attack be able to defeat bombers on their own – but be less an even match if they have an escort 60/40 in the bombers favour.

Until the advent of fighter/bombers they should no be effective against ground troops

Fighters should have to return to refuel – so a move of 5 or 7 should be preferable (move 2, attack return – move 3 attack return)

Fighters as before should defend a city Vs air attack in conjunction with AA guns (this is implemented: D)


Additionally – bombers should not be able to be attacked by anything but fighters and possibly later ship advanced that include the first missile batteries on them they fly too high up.

Bombers should have a really bad defence, Unless they come with a fighter escort a separate unit that moves along with it (no attack just defence) that has to refuel same as the bombers but annoyingly doesn’t have the range (one of the main problems of the bombers in WWII is the fighter escorts didn’t have the range of the bombers and had to leave early half the time)

Units stacking should be limited there is no way you can implement this in the game unfortunately but we can make an agreement that no hiding of units should take place

As this is a playtest about the pros cons of units I think it is best we aired this (sorry about the pun) anyhow there are my thoughts on the air power warfare, flame away.


Incidentally – if you look at my civ you notice that a single unit is a blow to the Japanese economy I only have about three productive cities :D
 
Notes taken Boli. Especially fighers will be upgraded in the next version.

Henrik, plz. play your turn.
 
sorry about the delays. I'll play this turn too and depassword but I've come to realize I can't keep up with the amount of pbems I have right now and as this is the latest one I joined I'll have to quit it :(
A shame really as I like the scenario. But it wouldn't be fair to the rest of you if I am going to keep on with these long delays.

School is simply too hectic right now. :(
 
I'm sorry to hear that Henrik. It has been fun playing with you. Hopefully it will not be the last time. :)


I have made a message in the "players needed thread" searching for a successor. I suggest that we just continue playing the scenario, and if noone shows up before UK's next turn, maybe you Morten would like to take control over Britain. I think that that would be most fitting having USA and UK together.
 
Even after finding most of the American fleet stationed at the American Navel base, our aircraft failed to score any decent hits on the trapped shipping. It was discovered too late that his planes flew too low and right into the anti-aircraft fire of the waiting battleships. Admiral Fuji Joriko, has promptly left the war cabinet on a kamikaze mission. Reports are sketchy but it is rumoured that Lord Boli fired him out the torpedo tube himself.

In better news the Island of Guam now lies under the protection of the Rising Sun. And Lord Boli has ordered a rethink of military strategies. There is evidence of these new tactics as the land forces of the continent pulled back and allowed bomber raids and navel support to inflict heavy looses on the approaching Russians. Two full divisions are known to be lost. We hope that The Russian military will take teh Japanese threat more seriously and alleviate some pressure off our European allies.

And finally, the seas are quiet with only a few navel engagements and a couple of losses from both sides, it seems both nationalities of shipping are keeping their distance.
 
Great! Then you are back on the feet again? What's the playing order? What has happened this far?
 
Grand Soviet offensive commenced:

Yesterday planes from the 1st Baltic Air Fleet initiated the first grand offensive against the German enemy. Targeting the German city of Königsberg over 1000 Sovet bombers unloaded their deadly cargo against the defenders below shattering all in their way. Inspite heavy losses inflicted by the defenders, the bombing was a succes leaving the city now completely unprotected. And with advancing Soviet armor and infantry only few days away, it will only be a matter short time before the city will capitulate.

Stalemate in the Far East:

Well-dug in Japanese defenders still foils any attempt for a breakthrough by Soviet troops. Only major succes reported from the harbor of Vladivostok where Soviet Bombers managed to sink a blokading Japanese Battleship.
 
Nice that you will join us Eivind, good luck to you. :)

Here is my turn Voltar.
 
Top Bottom