Pests

[n47]

Nearly all the mechanisms are in place. It would introduce more animals onto the board and there'd be more units operating like criminal units currently do. Would it really mean THAT much more processing?

Criminals wander into cities spreading crime. Pests would be basically the same thing spreading instead disease (as a property.)

Does it mean, you think if there is already some mechanism, then it should consume the same amount of time processing 20 units as processing 10?

The first page says, we have already 15 pests. Let's say there is averagely 7 pests per city. In an advanced game we can probably have 100 cities, or more. This gives already >700 additional units to process. And we are not counting traveling pests and pests' predators.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Well, if you wanted the pests to wonder into cities (i.e. - prefer cities to the rest of the environment) you'd need a new AI that searched for nearby cities and tried to move to them. You'd also need a LOT of units for most cities to have a good chance of being infested (if not addressed) - given the number of types of pest (say order of 10) and the number of cities in a large game (order of 200) and the fact that many instances of the pests would be wandering around looking for cities, that would require order of several thousand pest units, each of which would need to be processed as barbarian units each turn.

So yes, I'd say it would be a significant expense.

Rats!

Ah well... would be cool tho. The idea of having them plant a building (and self destroy in the process) was what I was hoping would be enough to take away the pests/city count. Said building could also spawn more that would then seek out other cities. But I'm seeing your point - that barb unit count in the game is already nearly at its upper end limit without splitting up barbs/animals. And this would force another split and all in all it would still slow the game turns considerably. (For those not using simultaneous turns by playing even their single player games in a multi-player format anyhow.)

 

[Yudishtira]

Rats!

Ah well... would be cool tho. The idea of having them plant a building (and self destroy in the process) was what I was hoping would be enough to take away the pests/city count. Said building could also spawn more that would then seek out other cities. But I'm seeing your point - that barb unit count in the game is already nearly at its upper end limit without splitting up barbs/animals. And this would force another split and all in all it would still slow the game turns considerably. (For those not using simultaneous turns by playing even their single player games in a multi-player format anyhow.)

Yeah it's a great idea - that's the main thing! Not all great ideas can or will be implemented, but you still have to keep coming up with them. Because without them, you're left with either doing nothing, or doing things that aren't worth doing!

PS: Not necessarily agreeing that it can't be done, btw... You simply can't afford to dismiss great/cool ideas out-of-hand like that...

 

[n47]

@Thunderbrd, if pest units would disappear after infestation, and we could limit they number to some reasonable value, it may be doable. But please don't make the player to hunt rats in the game he leads a country. It is a nice idea for spreading mechanisms, but hunting pests with cat units, while from other side wage a global war is a little overdo.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Which brings up the point - why isn't there a Rat catcher building that does something about Rats?

 

[n47]

Which brings up the point - why isn't there a Rat catcher building that does something about Rats?

You deserved a cookie.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Which brings up the point - why isn't there a Rat catcher building that does something about Rats?

That's a loaded question. Lets say we made one or even an Exterminator building. What stats would it have? Should it replace the pest buildings? Seems like even though we have Exterminators we still have pests. And each pest has a small effect such as +1 and -1. Should a rat catcher cancel out one of the effects? Likewise we already have the Rats get +1 from Cats resource. To cancel out the +1.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Cats and Dogs are nothing to do with this case.

Rat Catchers were implemented to keep the pest rats below plague proportions. That is plague of the animals not the disease. Having a plague of rats is above and beyond the current pests - rats. It is what you get in larger cities later on. Such plagues of rats/mice have a major affect on health and grain storage! I am therefore suggesting that there be a number of events for large cities (>20 pop). The first is a Plague of Rats which causes a small loss of food from the granary and adds a new building "Rat Plague" (actually means plague is more likely in future). The "Rat Catcher" building replaces this building (and requires it to be built?). Plagues (disease) outbreaks are more likely. A sewer system also mitigates this because it helps control rats by giving them a place to live strangely enough.

As an aside: the last mouse plague here was ended by the drought but it did not affect the big towns as much except in the reduced amount of cat food bought.

This is the sort of thing I was trying to implement with Disease - Malaria. It does not have one cause/effect. It has one cause but many effects and there are a number of ways of reducing the effects.

 

[Hydromancerx]

I was not saying that the Rat catcher required cats (or dogs) I was asking how both Rat Catcher and Cats would effect the Pest (Rats) building. Since it had limited stats you could not have the solutions give too much. Such as if Cats give +1 and rat catcher gave +1 then Pests (Rats) would come out to +1 . However if say the Rat Catcher out right replaced the Pest (Rats) building then the effects of Cats would be nullified since the building would not exist any more to give the bonus. However completely replacing the pest building may be unrealistic.

Thus perhaps a Rat Catcher building should require the Pest building and give a +1 to cancel out the +1 and give some sort of disease reduction stats. Because if you have no rats why do you need a rat catcher?

 

[intlidave]

Simple solution:
Rat Catcher = +1, +1 (with Rats), -1

 

[n47]

I was asking how both Rat Catcher and Cats would effect the Pest (Rats) building.

And DH answered you. He don't want to affect the Pest (Rats) building, but add a new building Rat Plague, which would be replaced by the Rat Catcher.

You should start reading books. It helps understanding written text.

 

[Faustmouse]

How about this:

We have 3 buildings for every pest: Minor, annoying, plague.

Each replaces the previous, but requiers more:

Annoying Rat Pest requires Corn, Storage Pit, Pop 10. Replaces Minor Rat Pest. Can't be build in the same city as Rat Catcher.

PLague (Rats) requires Corn, Storage Pit, Pop 20, Sewer System. Replaces Anoying Rat Pest. Can't be in the same city as Rat Catcher, Exterminator.

And so on. This will make the influence of pests more linear (now they only pop up in small cities and don't get a problem when cities grow to pop 100).
Also, Anti-Pest-Buildings don't REMOVE pests completely, but they bring them to a level where they are not plagues.

You don't need Anti-Pest buildings for every pest, some might just obsolete with certain techs. Or a combination is possible: At first you'd need a Rat Catcher in order to avoid Plagues (Rats), but once you researcher AI City you'll never have Rat problems again.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Simple solution:
Rat Catcher = +1, +1 (with Rats), -1

We don't have rats as a resource though.

How about this:

We have 3 buildings for every pest: Minor, annoying, plague.

Each replaces the previous, but requiers more:

Annoying Rat Pest requires Corn, Storage Pit, Pop 10. Replaces Minor Rat Pest. Can't be build in the same city as Rat Catcher.

PLague (Rats) requires Corn, Storage Pit, Pop 20, Sewer System. Replaces Anoying Rat Pest. Can't be in the same city as Rat Catcher, Exterminator.

And so on. This will make the influence of pests more linear (now they only pop up in small cities and don't get a problem when cities grow to pop 100).
Also, Anti-Pest-Buildings don't REMOVE pests completely, but they bring them to a level where they are not plagues.

You don't need Anti-Pest buildings for every pest, some might just obsolete with certain techs. Or a combination is possible: At first you'd need a Rat Catcher in order to avoid Plagues (Rats), but once you researcher AI City you'll never have Rat problems again.

That seems way more complex than it needs to be. Also I would use grain and not corn. Don't worry I will figure something out.

 

[n47]

That seems way more complex than it needs to be. Also I would use grain and not corn. Don't worry I will figure something out.

Actually, Hoskuld gave a really nice idea. It would bring some randomization into the game, which it IMHO still lacks.

Oh, and I hope you aren't angry for this book reading. I didn't mean to offend you. Just was trying to help.

 

[intlidave]

We don't have rats as a resource though.

I meant with Pests(Rats) building. Hm... guess that would actually mean that Pests(Rats) would be a prerequisite. Or is it possible for buildings to have variable outputs based on what other buildings are built?

 

[Azurian]

I meant with Pests(Rats) building. Hm... guess that would actually mean that Pests(Rats) would be a prerequisite. Or is it possible for buildings to have variable outputs based on what other buildings are built?

You mean like have Pest themselves be a resource? For example:

Slaughterhouse
-1 with Flies.

But wait! Pests can be positive
.

Reptiles Terranium (land aquarium)
+1 with Flies

Insect Battle Arena
+1 with Roaches
The pest itself can eventually have positives in health.

Transgene Lab
+1 with Mosquito, the mosquito can deliver vaccines

 

[Hydromancerx]

*removed*

Nevermind.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

The building Pest (Locust) should not have any malus (+1, -1) but should increase the chance of the locust event(s).

Not only that but in bad karma the plot should be taken over by locusts requiring their elimination

 

[Hydromancerx]

but should increase the chance of the locust event(s).

Ok. So how?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Good question. I only know how to do the most basic event. I assume that you would copy the existing event, add in the building and increase the probability. Note: you would not remove the old event(s) just add new ones for this building.