Phaedo's 1st basic skills training game: patience required

[Allanc]

I like the look of numero 4 and 6very much.

Lots of green, river and hills for mid game production.
the jungles is a blow though. But just expand north and then go on a jungle slashing crusade later on in the game, cities can still do alright in jungle of they have a few bananas or hills around.

6 is good as well. dont imediatly shun mountains. Late game they can be very good. speciay if coal or iron shows up onn them. But game on forests are immense early game. moving 1 SE to hopefully show some BG's will help

 

[Salarakas]

I like #6 the most. Chop the forest, irrigate the game and pump out settlers until there's no more land to fill. Is that a bonus grassland under the units? If yes, we'd probably want to move the settler. If not, settle in place.

#4 would be my second choice too. I hate starting near floodplains so not too thrilled about #3.

 

[D'Artagnan59]

I like 6 and 4 best too.

 

[Twixmeistah]

Hey,

If you guys don't think there are enough players yet, I would be interested in joining as well . Downside is that I am not at all an experienced player (three months, though I did play really intensively). My current playing level is regent, at which I have played about four games. I think my early game is decent, as are my city management skills, but I really need improvement on my military skills and the late game.
Here you can find a small glimpse (40 turns) of my gameplay.

I can understand if you reject my application, because there is a risk that I will destroy all your hard earned work in one blow .

Greetings,
Mr. O

 

[Phaedo]

Well, I guess having 6 in the roster isn't too bad in case RL issues get in the way. I don't really mind. I don't think it should be a unilateral decesion so what do the other team members think?

@Sal: Why do you hate flood plains? I understand if you are surrounded by them because of the disease risk, bu tin that start there is only one flood plain square. That is 4 food and 2 shields once irrigated and roaded. Why is that bad?

Still, I am comfortable with #4 or #6. Between the two I'd choose 6 because of the two rivers and I'm not a fan of starting near jungles.

 

[Aabraxan]

I say let Twixmeistah in. I also say that it's time to close the roster. Not that I'm unfriendly, but I think 6 is probably where we need to stop for the sake of time. Naturally, if RL issues get in the way or someone drops out, we can always open it up again.

Looks like we've got it narrowed down to 4 & 6. I vote for #6.

As to flood plains, do you have to be surrounded by them for disease to strike, or just border on them? I thought I had one recently where disease struck my city where it only bordered flood plains.

 

[Phaedo]

If they are anywhere in your city square you can be hit. The thing about that save was that there was only 1 flood plain. I thought the risk of disease would be pretty slim. I am assuming the randomized risk would increase the more FP were in the square.

And I agree. However the vote goes, the roster will be closed after it.

 

[Aabraxan]

6 is good as well. dont imediatly shun mountains. Late game they can be very good. speciay if coal or iron shows up onn them. But game on forests are immense early game. moving 1 SE to hopefully show some BG's will help

Any particular reason for SE? If our settler weren't standing on a BG, I'd drop him where he stands. But, as he is, I'd go either NW or SW. NY takes us back towards the center of the minimap (away from the tundra that I expect to see to the south), and both keep that deer right next door.

 

[Allanc]

sorry i should have been more specific, moving scout SE will reveal some grassland hopefully with some bonuses. If there are any bonuses down there then id move 1 SE. Although i see the benifit in 1 SW as well.

So scout S then S on to mountain should give us a clear spot of where to settle.

 

[CommandoBob]

lurker's comment:
I won't have time to play but I will lurk.

I don't think you need to limit your self to 5 turns in the first turn sets. There is not a lot of action in the early turns and they go by rather fast. What you want to do is use dot maps to examine and discuss future city placements. Yes, the first turns are critical and the worker turns need to be used wisely. But good discussion and planning are the real keys in the early turns of an SG.

I do think that you will need to pay a lot of attention to city happiness. At Empeoreror (however it is spelt) your first citizen is content, the next one is cranky. So early luxuries and using units as Military Police becomes very important.

 

[Phaedo]

The reason I was thinking 5 turns was mostly for city management. If we were all doing the same moves with the settler and worker any differences with Mming the city would become apparant. I figured 5 turns would be easier to analyse than 10. However I have been playing a SG game with my friend via e-mail and I would be happy with 10. I do want everyone to take the first couple turn sets though.

 

[Twixmeistah]

I think I prefer start #4. Although the jungle has more disadvantages (disease, low production and low movement) than advantages (eventually rubber), the rest looks promising. The three BG's are of couse great for some quick growth and the site also has some hills for mining purpose. A good combination!

The mountains of #6 seems bad to me. The mountains slow down expansion greatly and movement rate is slow (scouts will take one step per mountain in stead of the usual two). There is a risk that there will be a lot of mountains as well in the further surroundings. It will then be a very tough job, because it's really hard to expand quickly and to grow some kingsize cities. It's my opinion that the advantage we get with the game and the rivers is equal to the disadvantage of the mountains.

The difference in quality of 4 and 6 are really quite minimal, so I have no problem at all starting on site 6. I sort of liked start 3 as well to be honest. It is very versatile and has almost all the terrain types (which I found out is rather useful), and a river and an ocean. The only downside really is the wetland... But I think #3 is out of the question already, so forget what I just said .

I do want everyone to take the first couple turn sets though.

I thinks it's a nice formula, and 5 turns to begin with sounds good as well.

 

[Salarakas]

Phaedo: The extra food the floodplains give you is nice but the disease part totally sucks. True, there's only one visible in #3 but I still hate it

Personally I would go for 10 turns (or even 20!) in the beginning and then compare as you don't get much difference in just 5 turns. Some choices like moving the settler could hurt you in the very beginning but pay out in a dozen turns or so. But 5 is fine of course if that's what you want.

 

[Phaedo]

I'm fine with 10 turns. I agree that so little happens in the first 5 turns it is a bit of a waste. I can see the value of 20 too but let's keep it to 10 for the sake of analysis.
Right then, Let's vote on the start and get this underway.
I vote for 6
Twix: 4 (I think this is right eh?)
Sal: ?
All: ?
Abra: ?
D'art: ?

 

[TimBentley]

I think I prefer start #4. Although the jungle has more disadvantages (disease, low production and low movement) than advantages (eventually rubber), the rest looks promising.

lurker's comment: The jungle will only give you disease if a citizen is working a jungle tile.

 

[Aabraxan]

CommandoBob and TimBentley -- Welcome. Glad to have you along for the ride.

We're still waiting on Allanc, D'Art, and Salarakas to weigh in on Twixmeistah's admission. Allanc and Salarakas have both checked in & posted since Twix's request. Am I correct in assuming that neither of you object to Twix's joining?

Whatever we decide on the number of turns, I agree that everyone should take the opening turns so that we can compare notes on opening moves. I think that's an important part of this game. As to the number, I'm inclined for 10 in the very early stages, just because so little happens when you've only got one or two cities.

The land grab looks like this:
Phaedo: 6
Twix: 4
Aabraxan: 6 (2nd choide 4)
Salarakas: 6 (2nd choice: 4)
D'art: 6
Allanc: 6

BTW, Twixmeistah, from your "Irresistible Iroquois," the English equivalent of "killing two flies with one blow" is "killing two birds with one stone."

Edited to add Allanc's vote on the start.
Edited for D'artagnan's vote.

 

[Salarakas]

I'll vote for #6 again

By the way, if you feel it's too crowded here now with Twixmeistah on board I can step down. I enjoy reading the games and like I said in my first post I joined (mostly) because it seemed you were having trouble getting enough people otherwise. If you're going with one week per turn it might be better to keep the number of players relatively small or it tends to get tedious after a while. I could stay as 'an advisory observer' and then join if someone has to drop out for whatever reason.

 

[Allanc]

The mountains of #6 seems bad to me. The mountains slow down expansion greatly and movement rate is slow (scouts will take one step per mountain in stead of the usual two).

true but a scout can see up too 3 squares around when on a mountain. So if the mountains are dotted around the scout can move 1st on a flat square and end on a mountain, meaning more black squares are revealed. In #6 the mountains look dotted instead of solid banks of mountains so I dont think thats a problem.

My vote goes to 6

 

[Bucephalus]

true but a scout can see up too 3 squares around when on a mountain. So if the mountains are dotted around the scout can move 1st on a flat square and end on a mountain, meaning more black squares are revealed.

lurker's comment: But then the next move reveals nothing further, so nothing is really gained.

 

[CommandoBob]

lurker's comment:

Whatever we decide on the number of turns, I agree that everyone should take the opening turns so that we can compare notes on opening moves. I think that's an important part of this game. As to the number, I'm inclined for 10 in the very early stages, just because so little happens when you've only got one or two cities.

I do like the idea of everyone taking the initial start, playing turns and then comparing notes. But you may want to increase those turns from 10 to 15 or even 20. Or not.

I also like the idea of week long turns. Allows for RL. I like Civ, but it is not the only thing I do (regardless of what my wife says).