Phaedo's 1st basic skills training game: patience required
- Thread starter Phaedo
- Start date
Preflight assessment:
Tech status:
Philosophy in 8
UP: Nada
DOWN: Math to the Celts and Hittites
Military status:
1 settler
2 workers
1 scout
5 warriors
Treasury:
1 gold (!) +2 gpt
Sliders: 70/20
Goals:
Long-term: Conquer the planet (but tell the world we're bringing them the benefits of communism . . . )
Mid-term: Build the Statue of Zeus
Short-term:
1) Survive 10 turns
2) Found new cities
3) Build military units
4) Play well enough not to embarrass self
Preflight:
Switch Iron Town to Worker
Moscow is at 5. Switch it to one more settler. Our lux slider is already at 20% and I want that ivory.
Switch St. Pete's to a palace
IBT:
Iron Hill builds worker. Set to barracks.
Celtic warrior gets on mountain by St. Pete's
Hittites move some workers around.
Turn 1: 1475 BC:
Move settler pair 1 W. They can claim both ivories from there.
Scout 002 moves toward the Hittite/Celtic border. Plan on moving him through Celtic territory to bust some fog.
Dial up everyone, see if I can trade: . . . . nope
IBT: Arab scout moves
Celtic warrior moves
zzz. . .
Turn 2: 1450 BC
Begin forest chop at Iron Hill, done in 4
Mine at Iron Hill completes road, put on iron.
Settler pair moves onto Eastern Ivory. They'll settle there.
St Pete's is about to riot. Lux goes to 30%.
Science has to go to 60% to keep treasury from shrinking. We're at +1 gpt, philosophy in 6.
IBT: zzz . . .
Turn 3: 1425 BC
Begin roading iron -- 6 turns.
Settle Yaroslavl' on the ivory, begin warrior. If we can build some gold, I can short-rush this later.
Scout 002 moves into Celtic territory. We'll see what Brennus has to say.
Fortify warrior at Yaroslavl'
Check CAII: Nobody's any smarter.
I'm going to overrun 3 shields on production, but if I want growth in Moscow to continue at this pace, that can't be avoided.
Check all cities for unhappiness. Everyone's OK, but we really need to hook up that ivory.
IBT:
Moscow: settler -->settler (Our military is weak, but we need more cities, too).
Turn 4: 1400 BC
move scout SE some more (still in Celtic territory)
Move settler NE. There are 5 BGs up there that we should claim. I tentatively plan on settling one of them, so that we can mine all of the hills.
Gold: 6 w/ +0 gpt
Philosophy in 4
IBT: The Dutch are building the Pyramids
The Dutch have completed the Colossus.
Turn 5: 1375 BC
Worker completes mine at St. Pete's, begins road.
Rostov completes warrior --> worker (5)
Scout continues SE.
Settler continues NE.
Switch Yaroslavl' to worker. I need to hook up that ivory!
I turn science downt to 50%. I still get Philosophy in 3, but gain +1 gpt.
IBT: The Hittites are building the Pyramids.
Dutch warriors move east. They're not in our territory, but they're making me nervous.
Forest chop at Iron Town completed, Barracks in 10.
Turn 6: 1350 BC
Normally, I'd work the square that the Iron Town worker is on. In this case, though, I really want that iron, so I move him that direction.
Scout emerges from Celtic territory.
IBT: Dutch and Celtic warriors move around a lot, but none towards us.
Turn 7: 1325 BC
Move Settler onto BG. I'll settle him here. I hate to settle on a BG, but the hills have more shield potential.
Worker onto Iron Hill. He'll help mine and road here.
Scout 1 SE.
Philosophy in 1. Turn science down as far as possible for gold.
Moscow will grow in 1 with settler in 2. Unfortunately, it's at size 6 already. I make a scientist. Reallocate a citizen in St. Pete to work the irrigated wines that Moscow just vacated. This allows me to turn science down to 30% and get +7 gpt, with science in 1 and slows growth down in Moscow so that the granary doesn't empty. I'll change the scientist back as soon as I've got this settler.
Check CA for tech prices:
Polythesim: 360
Map Making: 360
Literature: 300
Math: 192
Code of Laws: 300
IBT: We discover Philosophy. I check CA. Prices have not changed. I take Literature. Polytheism and MapMaking are more expensive, but we may be able to trade for MapMaking. Besides, if we miss the SoZ, we may still be able to pick up the GLib. Start Math, but I hope to trade for it before the next turn gets going.
Turn 8: 1300 BC
Worker at St. Pete's onto wheat.
Scout on a hill.
Settle Yekatarinburg, start warrior
Workers on Iron Hill finish roads.
We have Iron!
Start Mine.
Let's make some calls:
Trading:
Arabs will offer Math and 20 gold for either Lit or Philosophy
So will the Celts.
The Hittites have no gold, but they'll give us Math.
The Dutch have only 50 gold to offer.
Back to the Arabs -- Make it Math and 25 gold, sell Philosophy.
Philosophy to the Celts for 25 (might as well take their gold before the Arabs do).
Philosophy to the Dutch for 50 (ditto). Everyone except us is broke now, and the Dutch still lack math.
That's all. I decide not to sell Lit. I'm going to keep one bargaining chip for now.
Treasury: 117 gold, +1gpt at science/lux 60/30. Still have a scientist in Moscow, but they'll produce a settler next turn.
IBT:
Moscow: settler -->Swordsman (4). Moscow is size 4, growth in 1.
Scientist reassigned.
Turn 9:
Move new settler due S. Time to crowd the Dutch a little.
Tinker with Moscovians to get growth in 1 without wasting food. Then I can put it back on track for settler pumping. We can squeeze a few more cities in to the north.
Worker mine. The mine at Iron hill will now be done in 6 turns.
Worker begins roading at St. Pete's wheat. Normally, I would irrigate first, but I'm trying to get the ivory hooked up.
IBT:
Rostov builds worker --> archer
Turn 10:
Wake Rostov warrior. We're going to need him down south.
Reassign Muscovians so that they're at +5 food, growth in 2.
Change build to settler. The Moscow settler pump is ready to go.
The Hittites have MapMaking and we've only got 29 beakers invested in it. Before the end of my turnset, I want to see if they'll trade it. Nope.
Summary:
Military:
6 Cities
1 Settler
4 Workers
1 Scout
6 Warriors
Technology:
UP: Literature on everyone
DOWN: Mapmaking to the Hittites.
There are Jute Tribes near Yaroslavl'!
Our military is weak compared to everyone.
Over this turnset, we learned:
Philosophy
Literature
Mathematics
Treasury 119, +0 gpt.
MapMaking in 21.
Notes to next player:
The Moscow settler pump is in fine form. We should be able to squeeze a few more cities in to the north.
Militarily, we stink. I wanted a couple more workers out so that we can hook that ivory up and improve some tiles. But we got iron hooked up, so some of the high shield cities can now start pumping out archers and swords. Iron Town will soon have barracks and one mined hill.
Tech status:
Philosophy in 8
UP: Nada
DOWN: Math to the Celts and Hittites
Military status:
1 settler
2 workers
1 scout
5 warriors
Treasury:
1 gold (!) +2 gpt
Sliders: 70/20
Goals:
Long-term: Conquer the planet (but tell the world we're bringing them the benefits of communism . . . )
Mid-term: Build the Statue of Zeus
Short-term:
1) Survive 10 turns
2) Found new cities
3) Build military units
4) Play well enough not to embarrass self
Preflight:
Switch Iron Town to Worker
Moscow is at 5. Switch it to one more settler. Our lux slider is already at 20% and I want that ivory.
Switch St. Pete's to a palace
IBT:
Iron Hill builds worker. Set to barracks.
Celtic warrior gets on mountain by St. Pete's
Hittites move some workers around.
Turn 1: 1475 BC:
Move settler pair 1 W. They can claim both ivories from there.
Scout 002 moves toward the Hittite/Celtic border. Plan on moving him through Celtic territory to bust some fog.
Dial up everyone, see if I can trade: . . . . nope
IBT: Arab scout moves
Celtic warrior moves
zzz. . .
Turn 2: 1450 BC
Begin forest chop at Iron Hill, done in 4
Mine at Iron Hill completes road, put on iron.
Settler pair moves onto Eastern Ivory. They'll settle there.
St Pete's is about to riot. Lux goes to 30%.
Science has to go to 60% to keep treasury from shrinking. We're at +1 gpt, philosophy in 6.
IBT: zzz . . .
Turn 3: 1425 BC
Begin roading iron -- 6 turns.
Settle Yaroslavl' on the ivory, begin warrior. If we can build some gold, I can short-rush this later.
Scout 002 moves into Celtic territory. We'll see what Brennus has to say.
Fortify warrior at Yaroslavl'
Check CAII: Nobody's any smarter.
I'm going to overrun 3 shields on production, but if I want growth in Moscow to continue at this pace, that can't be avoided.
Check all cities for unhappiness. Everyone's OK, but we really need to hook up that ivory.
IBT:
Moscow: settler -->settler (Our military is weak, but we need more cities, too).
Turn 4: 1400 BC
move scout SE some more (still in Celtic territory)
Move settler NE. There are 5 BGs up there that we should claim. I tentatively plan on settling one of them, so that we can mine all of the hills.
Gold: 6 w/ +0 gpt
Philosophy in 4
IBT: The Dutch are building the Pyramids
The Dutch have completed the Colossus.
Turn 5: 1375 BC
Worker completes mine at St. Pete's, begins road.
Rostov completes warrior --> worker (5)
Scout continues SE.
Settler continues NE.
Switch Yaroslavl' to worker. I need to hook up that ivory!
I turn science downt to 50%. I still get Philosophy in 3, but gain +1 gpt.
IBT: The Hittites are building the Pyramids.
Dutch warriors move east. They're not in our territory, but they're making me nervous.
Forest chop at Iron Town completed, Barracks in 10.
Turn 6: 1350 BC
Normally, I'd work the square that the Iron Town worker is on. In this case, though, I really want that iron, so I move him that direction.
Scout emerges from Celtic territory.
IBT: Dutch and Celtic warriors move around a lot, but none towards us.
Turn 7: 1325 BC
Move Settler onto BG. I'll settle him here. I hate to settle on a BG, but the hills have more shield potential.
Worker onto Iron Hill. He'll help mine and road here.
Scout 1 SE.
Philosophy in 1. Turn science down as far as possible for gold.
Moscow will grow in 1 with settler in 2. Unfortunately, it's at size 6 already. I make a scientist. Reallocate a citizen in St. Pete to work the irrigated wines that Moscow just vacated. This allows me to turn science down to 30% and get +7 gpt, with science in 1 and slows growth down in Moscow so that the granary doesn't empty. I'll change the scientist back as soon as I've got this settler.
Check CA for tech prices:
Polythesim: 360
Map Making: 360
Literature: 300
Math: 192
Code of Laws: 300
IBT: We discover Philosophy. I check CA. Prices have not changed. I take Literature. Polytheism and MapMaking are more expensive, but we may be able to trade for MapMaking. Besides, if we miss the SoZ, we may still be able to pick up the GLib. Start Math, but I hope to trade for it before the next turn gets going.
Turn 8: 1300 BC
Worker at St. Pete's onto wheat.
Scout on a hill.
Settle Yekatarinburg, start warrior
Workers on Iron Hill finish roads.
We have Iron!
Start Mine.
Let's make some calls:
Trading:
Arabs will offer Math and 20 gold for either Lit or Philosophy
So will the Celts.
The Hittites have no gold, but they'll give us Math.
The Dutch have only 50 gold to offer.
Back to the Arabs -- Make it Math and 25 gold, sell Philosophy.
Philosophy to the Celts for 25 (might as well take their gold before the Arabs do).
Philosophy to the Dutch for 50 (ditto). Everyone except us is broke now, and the Dutch still lack math.
That's all. I decide not to sell Lit. I'm going to keep one bargaining chip for now.
Treasury: 117 gold, +1gpt at science/lux 60/30. Still have a scientist in Moscow, but they'll produce a settler next turn.
IBT:
Moscow: settler -->Swordsman (4). Moscow is size 4, growth in 1.
Scientist reassigned.
Turn 9:
Move new settler due S. Time to crowd the Dutch a little.
Tinker with Moscovians to get growth in 1 without wasting food. Then I can put it back on track for settler pumping. We can squeeze a few more cities in to the north.
Worker mine. The mine at Iron hill will now be done in 6 turns.
Worker begins roading at St. Pete's wheat. Normally, I would irrigate first, but I'm trying to get the ivory hooked up.
IBT:
Rostov builds worker --> archer
Turn 10:
Wake Rostov warrior. We're going to need him down south.
Reassign Muscovians so that they're at +5 food, growth in 2.
Change build to settler. The Moscow settler pump is ready to go.
The Hittites have MapMaking and we've only got 29 beakers invested in it. Before the end of my turnset, I want to see if they'll trade it. Nope.
Summary:
Military:
6 Cities
1 Settler
4 Workers
1 Scout
6 Warriors
Technology:
UP: Literature on everyone
DOWN: Mapmaking to the Hittites.
There are Jute Tribes near Yaroslavl'!
Our military is weak compared to everyone.
Over this turnset, we learned:
Philosophy
Literature
Mathematics
Treasury 119, +0 gpt.
MapMaking in 21.
Notes to next player:
The Moscow settler pump is in fine form. We should be able to squeeze a few more cities in to the north.
Militarily, we stink. I wanted a couple more workers out so that we can hook that ivory up and improve some tiles. But we got iron hooked up, so some of the high shield cities can now start pumping out archers and swords. Iron Town will soon have barracks and one mined hill.
Good thing the philosophy gamble worked out.
We need second defenders in our bigger towns (Moscow and St. Petes), we can have 2 MP units in despotism and can then lower the lux slider a notch. But then again, we seem to be needing units elsewhere too with an undefended city and an undefended settler.
I'm curious why you picked mapmaking as our next tech. The only boats we'll be building in a long time are those that keep searching for the other continent and the rest of the civs.
Are there 2 workers mining the iron? Mining hills is generally a bad idea in the beginning of the game because of the despotism penalty to shields (2 shields instead of 3 for a normal hill) and because there's almost always something more important to do. Iron Town doesn't even have a food bonus so it won't be working that tile for a very long time. And we only have 4 workers so at the moment we're basically wasting 50% of our workforce for 6(?) turns
If we still have loads of cash then either spend most of it ASAP by building embassies or at least raise the sliders to max. We don't need to be making a profit if we have over 100 gold in the kitty.
Our biggest problems at the moment in my opinion is the lack of workers and the small size of our towns. We won't be building many swords with size 1 towns and unimproved tiles. Let the towns that have a worker near them grow. The first thing new towns should build is either a worker (if they make +2 food and 1 shield) or a warrior (if they have +2 food and can make 2 shields) followed by a worker. A good rule of thumb is at least 1 worker per city, preferably 3 workers for 2 towns.
We need second defenders in our bigger towns (Moscow and St. Petes), we can have 2 MP units in despotism and can then lower the lux slider a notch. But then again, we seem to be needing units elsewhere too with an undefended city and an undefended settler.
I'm curious why you picked mapmaking as our next tech. The only boats we'll be building in a long time are those that keep searching for the other continent and the rest of the civs.
Are there 2 workers mining the iron? Mining hills is generally a bad idea in the beginning of the game because of the despotism penalty to shields (2 shields instead of 3 for a normal hill) and because there's almost always something more important to do. Iron Town doesn't even have a food bonus so it won't be working that tile for a very long time. And we only have 4 workers so at the moment we're basically wasting 50% of our workforce for 6(?) turns
If we still have loads of cash then either spend most of it ASAP by building embassies or at least raise the sliders to max. We don't need to be making a profit if we have over 100 gold in the kitty.
Our biggest problems at the moment in my opinion is the lack of workers and the small size of our towns. We won't be building many swords with size 1 towns and unimproved tiles. Let the towns that have a worker near them grow. The first thing new towns should build is either a worker (if they make +2 food and 1 shield) or a warrior (if they have +2 food and can make 2 shields) followed by a worker. A good rule of thumb is at least 1 worker per city, preferably 3 workers for 2 towns.
Phaedo
Emperor
Twix, you're up so let us know if you can't take it
Nice work on the Phil gambit
I also wonder why the Maps, especially as we know that the Hittites already have it. Personally, I'd tend to go for either construction or currency if I was thinkining of trading or Code for Republic. Any thoughts about switching research? Is it worth it?
I haven't really used communism so I am quite interested in it but I wonder if Republic to Commie might not help us more than going through Monarchy. At any rate, I think we have some decesions to make. I agree with Sal about needing workers.
Another Monday armchair quaterbacking thought: we're still in the expansion phase, not at war and have a lot of gold, maybe it would have been better not to have hooked up the iron but build a bunch of warriors and then attach and upgrade them. I don't know if it is worth it now as that means a lot of wasted worker moves but I think we could make 3 warriors in the time that we could make 1 sword right? That's a quick army that is only dependant on gold which we now have.
Bucephalus offered to take a set or two as a guest team member to keep the momentum going now that we are down to 3 regular players. Any objections?
Nice work on the Phil gambit
I also wonder why the Maps, especially as we know that the Hittites already have it. Personally, I'd tend to go for either construction or currency if I was thinkining of trading or Code for Republic. Any thoughts about switching research? Is it worth it?
I haven't really used communism so I am quite interested in it but I wonder if Republic to Commie might not help us more than going through Monarchy. At any rate, I think we have some decesions to make. I agree with Sal about needing workers.
Another Monday armchair quaterbacking thought: we're still in the expansion phase, not at war and have a lot of gold, maybe it would have been better not to have hooked up the iron but build a bunch of warriors and then attach and upgrade them. I don't know if it is worth it now as that means a lot of wasted worker moves but I think we could make 3 warriors in the time that we could make 1 sword right? That's a quick army that is only dependant on gold which we now have.
Bucephalus offered to take a set or two as a guest team member to keep the momentum going now that we are down to 3 regular players. Any objections?
Communism is still a long way away so we don't have to discuss it yet. Personally I would only use it in Always War games and/or if I'm playing a religious civ.
I'm not a big fan of upgrading warriors to swordsmen. Upgrading costs 3 gold per shield difference of the two units unless I'm mistaken which would mean 60 gold (30 minus 10 times 3) per one upgrade. Upgrading one or even two is ok but after that you're just wasting a lot of money in my opinion that would be better used in research. And we definately don't want to upgrade any regular warriors and those are all we got now.
Iron Town will finish its barracks soon and can then start building swords. It should get 5 or 6 shields easily once it grows a bit which would mean a swordsman every 5 or 6 turns. It can use the mined bonus grassland near Moscow too.
That would be a big help. No objections here.
If I read the report right the Hittites didn't have it yet when Aab started researching, they only got it during the last turn. But now that they do I'm in favor of switching to something else as it won't help us much and won't be a monopoly tech. Either currency/construction (doesn't really matter which) or start working towards republic. We've only got 29 beakers invested so it's not a big loss.
I'm not a big fan of upgrading warriors to swordsmen. Upgrading costs 3 gold per shield difference of the two units unless I'm mistaken which would mean 60 gold (30 minus 10 times 3) per one upgrade. Upgrading one or even two is ok but after that you're just wasting a lot of money in my opinion that would be better used in research. And we definately don't want to upgrade any regular warriors and those are all we got now.
Iron Town will finish its barracks soon and can then start building swords. It should get 5 or 6 shields easily once it grows a bit which would mean a swordsman every 5 or 6 turns. It can use the mined bonus grassland near Moscow too.
That would be a big help. No objections here.
If I read the report right the Hittites didn't have it yet when Aab started researching, they only got it during the last turn. But now that they do I'm in favor of switching to something else as it won't help us much and won't be a monopoly tech. Either currency/construction (doesn't really matter which) or start working towards republic. We've only got 29 beakers invested so it's not a big loss.
Certainly Bucephalus is welcome.
When I took MapMaking, I don't think anyone else had it, so I was shooting for another monopoly tech. At the moment, I can't recall why I chose to shoot for a monopoly on MapMaking rather than something else, though. At any rate, I tried to trade the Hittites out of Maps before I ended my turnset so that we could move on to something else. Sal's right. We've only got 29 beakers invested, a grand sum of 2 turns, IIRC. Not only do I not object to switching, I support a switch. I think it's worth it. I just discovered that the Hittites have Maps very late in the game (on my last turn), so I didn't want to change before the hand-off. I wasn't going to be wasting any additional beakers by waiting. We've still got Literature as a monopoly, which we may be able to trade for Maps (maybe ?).
As far as boats go, I always get boats out early so that I can begin trading. We've already got curraghs and a place or two to build them. Should we begin looking for the other continent and begin trading?
The workers on the hill, well, that may just be indefensible, but here was my thinking. . . First, I guess I've gotten accustomed to being in Republic fairly early (I almost always beeline the slingshot right out of the gate). Second, we're rapidly running out of land and I expect to be at war soon. Because of that, I was not sure how many workers we'll be able to produce in the future (I expect our cities to be producing military units). So I guess I wasn't sure when our workers would get back around to mining that hill, which they were already standing on. . .
Also, as far as when Iron Town works that tile, why wait for natural growth? Why not fill our land, then use settlers to increase the populations of our already-established cities? What about using the settler pump to increase pop in all of our cities once the available and is filled? Is that viable?
Warrior upgrades -- The warrior/sword upgrade is very expensive, 60 gold, iirc. (If it's cheaper, someone let me know). That means that we can upgrade one now and one in a couple of turns. That would deplete our treasury and we'd have to wait a long time to upgrade a third. If I were really going to go that route, what I might do is leave Yekaratinburg unhooked from the iron (which will, unfortunately, also leave it unhooked from the luxes) and build warriors there. Then I'd send them south to Iron Town for upgrade. Question: If we build regular warriors, do they upgrade to regular swords, or do they get the experience benefit of the barracks (meaning vSwords)? Truthfully, though, I'd rather spend the gold on something else, like establishing an embassy, research, or bribing someone to attack an AI opponent.
As far as governments go, I think we should head for Republic. Honestly, I've never played a monarchy, so I don't know what they're like. But my understanding is that monarchies tend to lag behind Republics.
When I took MapMaking, I don't think anyone else had it, so I was shooting for another monopoly tech. At the moment, I can't recall why I chose to shoot for a monopoly on MapMaking rather than something else, though. At any rate, I tried to trade the Hittites out of Maps before I ended my turnset so that we could move on to something else. Sal's right. We've only got 29 beakers invested, a grand sum of 2 turns, IIRC. Not only do I not object to switching, I support a switch. I think it's worth it. I just discovered that the Hittites have Maps very late in the game (on my last turn), so I didn't want to change before the hand-off. I wasn't going to be wasting any additional beakers by waiting. We've still got Literature as a monopoly, which we may be able to trade for Maps (maybe ?).
As far as boats go, I always get boats out early so that I can begin trading. We've already got curraghs and a place or two to build them. Should we begin looking for the other continent and begin trading?
The workers on the hill, well, that may just be indefensible, but here was my thinking. . . First, I guess I've gotten accustomed to being in Republic fairly early (I almost always beeline the slingshot right out of the gate). Second, we're rapidly running out of land and I expect to be at war soon. Because of that, I was not sure how many workers we'll be able to produce in the future (I expect our cities to be producing military units). So I guess I wasn't sure when our workers would get back around to mining that hill, which they were already standing on. . .
Also, as far as when Iron Town works that tile, why wait for natural growth? Why not fill our land, then use settlers to increase the populations of our already-established cities? What about using the settler pump to increase pop in all of our cities once the available and is filled? Is that viable?
Warrior upgrades -- The warrior/sword upgrade is very expensive, 60 gold, iirc. (If it's cheaper, someone let me know). That means that we can upgrade one now and one in a couple of turns. That would deplete our treasury and we'd have to wait a long time to upgrade a third. If I were really going to go that route, what I might do is leave Yekaratinburg unhooked from the iron (which will, unfortunately, also leave it unhooked from the luxes) and build warriors there. Then I'd send them south to Iron Town for upgrade. Question: If we build regular warriors, do they upgrade to regular swords, or do they get the experience benefit of the barracks (meaning vSwords)? Truthfully, though, I'd rather spend the gold on something else, like establishing an embassy, research, or bribing someone to attack an AI opponent.
As far as governments go, I think we should head for Republic. Honestly, I've never played a monarchy, so I don't know what they're like. But my understanding is that monarchies tend to lag behind Republics.
Just a note.. In succession games it's advisable to leave things that have a noticable impact in the game (trading, starting wars, doing steals etc.) that happen in the last turn of a turnset to the next player. This way the team can discuss it first and decide whether it's a good idea or not.
Well, we should have began looking a long time ago
Right now workers, settlers and troops might be seen as more important. Then again, a curragh is only 15 shields so it won't slow us down that much. There's always time to build workers. They are the most important unit in the game. We'll be building them even during wars.
That can work. But then again we still need settlers and plenty of workers. I wouldn't merge a single worker until all the important tiles are improved. The only exception is if a town really needs to grow fast in order to build an important wonder. And Moscow is by far our best town and can build swords very fast if we let it grow (10 shields is very easy to get).
No, they don't get promoted. Upgrading regular units is a waste of money. Also never upgrade elite troops as they get "demoted" to veteran.
The commerce bonus and lower corruption of republic is huge. The only good things about monarchy is lower troop costs and no war weariness. In a "normal" game republic wins hands down as long as you have roads everywhere, cities (meaning towns size 7 or more), multiplier buildings (libraries, marketplaces) in your best cities and focus more in the quality of the troops rather than just the numbers.
Salarakas said:
Good point.
Well, we should have began looking a long time ago
True enough, but I think we should get at least one curragh out.
I wasn't planning on merging workers. I'm talking about creating settlers for the sole purpose of increasing population in other cities, after filling up all available land, of course.
That's what I suspected.
Tribute
Not Sarcastic
Actually, making settlers instead of workers for joining makes more sense only when the production of the metro (I'd assume not a town or city) is above 30shields because of the waste if you do workers. But clean the egg off, Aabraxan!
Tribute
Not Sarcastic
Actually, making settlers instead of workers for joining makes more sense only when the production of the metro (I'd assume not a town or city) is above 30shields because of the waste if you do workers. But clean the egg off, Aabraxan!
Double post: because of 11/6/06 server error.
Double post: because of 11/6/06 server error.
Phaedo
Emperor
Our guest player is going to take Twix's spot for the next set
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
Thanks for the welcome guys, I'll try not to screw up too badly.
A few points for discussion before I play:
You don't seem to have reached a definitive conclusion on which tech you want to switch to; Construction and Currency were both mentioned, as was becoming a Republic, which would indicate CoL.
Rostov is set to build a reg Archer in 30; I suggest you have a more pressing need for workers, or even a Curragh.
There are two BG's that Moscow could be using, thus freeing one BG each to Yekaterburg, and Rostov; I propose using the two workers currently mining the Iron, to improve those tiles instead.
A few points for discussion before I play:
You don't seem to have reached a definitive conclusion on which tech you want to switch to; Construction and Currency were both mentioned, as was becoming a Republic, which would indicate CoL.
Rostov is set to build a reg Archer in 30; I suggest you have a more pressing need for workers, or even a Curragh.
There are two BG's that Moscow could be using, thus freeing one BG each to Yekaterburg, and Rostov; I propose using the two workers currently mining the Iron, to improve those tiles instead.
I don't think it really matters much. We don't need any aqueducts before we revolt to republic and I doubt we'll build too many marketplaces in the near future either. We're scientific (right?) so libraries are cheap so those are the multiplier buildings we should focus on in the short run.
I must admit I don't really know what tech the AI goes for usually in a situation like this. You'd think construction as it's a wonder tech (the great wall) so we should probably go for something else and hope we get it as a monopoly tech. If I had to choose I'd go for code of laws.
I believe there's a barbarian camp just out of sight near the ivory so I guess that's why the city is building an archer. I would only build archers if absolutely necessery as we won't win any wars with them, especially regular ones. Check the situation and then decide.
I would cancel both workers unless they'll finish the mine in a couple of turns. We got plenty of more important jobs for them. The hill is roaded so we won't lose any turns by getting them back there when needed.
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
Pre-Turn:
Wake Warrior at Yaralslavl', move N to hill - there is a horse barb fortified on the Northernmost of the two hills nearby.
Wake workers mining Iron at 'Iron Town'; move to BG near Moscow.
Change Rostov build to Worker; mm to grow in 3, Worker in 4.
Change research to CoL (20)
Drop lux slider back 10% - nobody unhappy about it -; increase Science spending 20%, CoL (18)., at -1gpt.
Looking around the map, land is becoming short, and I wouldn't be surprised to see a few wars kicking off soon; unfortunately, there are no immediate prospects of our military growing. We may need to pay tribute, if asked.
Enter:
IBT: Nada.
1225 BC:
Workers begin to mine and road BG near Moscow;
Send Warrior from Moscow to St. Peters; it will grow next turn and needs an MP if it is not to waste a citizen as a specialist, and Moscow doesn't need it until it grows. It
will have a replacement by then, coming from Rotcov.
Iron Town grows, citizen having to work the Iron for the moment, until BG is improved; Rax in 3.
Worker at Rostov moved to forest to chop for a Warrior.
Hmm, it appears I have a settler in the Jungle. I don't remember seeing a recent dotmap, so I'll just have to use my judgement. CoL(15)
MM is now known by the Dutch, and is available as a swap for Literature. I think it best to hold on to Lit, in case have a run at the GL.
IBT: Barb Horse, and Warrior approach Yarislavl'.
1200 BC:
Moscow, St. Peters grow;
Warrior from Rostov to guard Worker attempting to road to the Ivory. Damn Barbs.
Found Yakutsk S of Moscow; it's hard to believe that one day this will be one of our best cities, jungle everywhere. Begin Worker.
IBT: Barb Horse ignores Yarislavl', and heads towards St Petes. Barb Warrior approaches Yarislavl'
1175 BC:
Yekaterinburg produces Warrior, begins Worker.
IBT: Another Barb Horse shows up.
1150 BC:
Iron Town completes Rax; begin Sword (8); Upgrade Warrior to Sword; I would not usually upgrade a reg, but we need more than Warriors to deal with these Barbs
IBT: Barb Horse fortifies outside St Petes.
1125 BC: Moscow completes Settler.
I'm sorry, but I'm having to give you the rest from memory, 'Notepad' crashed without me saving.
Founded Vladivostok;
Sword killed 2 Barbs, one more impaled itself on an Axe;
Sword heading for the Barb Camp;
Settler following;
Ivory on-line, switch St Petes to SoZ, ready in 7
We now have 8 cities, and a Settler moving.
Our military is 9 Warriors(1 Vet), 1 reg Sword; We are still 'weak'.
We have 6 Workers, more on the way. They are all currently under orders.
Rostov is building a Curragh; it's high time we made more contacts.
Col in 5 (I think)
Looking at the map, I would say that we're in a strong position. We have more cities than anyone else, and better land. If we can avoid war until it's on our terms, then I think
thic continent can be Russian in the early Middle Ages. I would say that the Dutch would make a good first choice because;
a) That city next Moscow is rightfully Russian.
b) They are growing quite slowly, I think our military will catch theirs soonest.
c) Ideally, we don't want to fight Swiss Mercenaries.
d) We can take them out without exposing ourselves to a second front.
Russia:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/38078/Phaedo01_1000BC_Buce.SAV
Wake Warrior at Yaralslavl', move N to hill - there is a horse barb fortified on the Northernmost of the two hills nearby.
Wake workers mining Iron at 'Iron Town'; move to BG near Moscow.
Change Rostov build to Worker; mm to grow in 3, Worker in 4.
Change research to CoL (20)
Drop lux slider back 10% - nobody unhappy about it -; increase Science spending 20%, CoL (18)., at -1gpt.
Looking around the map, land is becoming short, and I wouldn't be surprised to see a few wars kicking off soon; unfortunately, there are no immediate prospects of our military growing. We may need to pay tribute, if asked.
Enter:
IBT: Nada.
1225 BC:
Workers begin to mine and road BG near Moscow;
Send Warrior from Moscow to St. Peters; it will grow next turn and needs an MP if it is not to waste a citizen as a specialist, and Moscow doesn't need it until it grows. It
will have a replacement by then, coming from Rotcov.
Iron Town grows, citizen having to work the Iron for the moment, until BG is improved; Rax in 3.
Worker at Rostov moved to forest to chop for a Warrior.
Hmm, it appears I have a settler in the Jungle. I don't remember seeing a recent dotmap, so I'll just have to use my judgement. CoL(15)
MM is now known by the Dutch, and is available as a swap for Literature. I think it best to hold on to Lit, in case have a run at the GL.
IBT: Barb Horse, and Warrior approach Yarislavl'.
1200 BC:
Moscow, St. Peters grow;
Warrior from Rostov to guard Worker attempting to road to the Ivory. Damn Barbs.
Found Yakutsk S of Moscow; it's hard to believe that one day this will be one of our best cities, jungle everywhere. Begin Worker.
IBT: Barb Horse ignores Yarislavl', and heads towards St Petes. Barb Warrior approaches Yarislavl'
1175 BC:
Yekaterinburg produces Warrior, begins Worker.
IBT: Another Barb Horse shows up.
1150 BC:
Iron Town completes Rax; begin Sword (8); Upgrade Warrior to Sword; I would not usually upgrade a reg, but we need more than Warriors to deal with these Barbs
IBT: Barb Horse fortifies outside St Petes.
1125 BC: Moscow completes Settler.
I'm sorry, but I'm having to give you the rest from memory, 'Notepad' crashed without me saving.
Founded Vladivostok;
Sword killed 2 Barbs, one more impaled itself on an Axe;
Sword heading for the Barb Camp;
Settler following;
Ivory on-line, switch St Petes to SoZ, ready in 7
We now have 8 cities, and a Settler moving.
Our military is 9 Warriors(1 Vet), 1 reg Sword; We are still 'weak'.
We have 6 Workers, more on the way. They are all currently under orders.
Rostov is building a Curragh; it's high time we made more contacts.
Col in 5 (I think)
Looking at the map, I would say that we're in a strong position. We have more cities than anyone else, and better land. If we can avoid war until it's on our terms, then I think
thic continent can be Russian in the early Middle Ages. I would say that the Dutch would make a good first choice because;
a) That city next Moscow is rightfully Russian.
b) They are growing quite slowly, I think our military will catch theirs soonest.
c) Ideally, we don't want to fight Swiss Mercenaries.
d) We can take them out without exposing ourselves to a second front.
Russia:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/38078/Phaedo01_1000BC_Buce.SAV
Good going. I agree that upgrading one regular warrior was necessery under the circumstances. Once we get the north populated we won't be seeing any more barbarians in the game for a long time I'd guess.
Some questions..
1. Is that galley barbarian? If not, has it dropped anything yet?
2. The worker 1W1SW of Moscow... does it have another worker under it or a warrior?
3. I notice St. Petes isn't growing. Did you maximize the shields in order to get the SoZ faster or what? In any case we want to build a barracks ASAP once we (hopefully) finish the SoZ so that our ancient cavalry is veteran. Then just swords and a worker/settler once in a while.
We should be ready to attack the Dutch in about 30 turns I guess. If we get the SoZ in 7 we would have 4 or 5 AC by then and at least half a dozen swords. Or we could wait some more and build enough catapults to help minimize our losses. Personally I would attack sooner than later. AC is the best attacker in the ancient age after the Persian Immortal unit so we should take an advantage of that.
We also want to build a library in Moscow sooner or later. It's by far our best science town and libraries are only 40(?) shields to us. Don't build any troops there yet as it doesn't have a barracks.
Is it Phaedo's turn now?
Some questions..
1. Is that galley barbarian? If not, has it dropped anything yet?
2. The worker 1W1SW of Moscow... does it have another worker under it or a warrior?
3. I notice St. Petes isn't growing. Did you maximize the shields in order to get the SoZ faster or what? In any case we want to build a barracks ASAP once we (hopefully) finish the SoZ so that our ancient cavalry is veteran. Then just swords and a worker/settler once in a while.
We should be ready to attack the Dutch in about 30 turns I guess. If we get the SoZ in 7 we would have 4 or 5 AC by then and at least half a dozen swords. Or we could wait some more and build enough catapults to help minimize our losses. Personally I would attack sooner than later. AC is the best attacker in the ancient age after the Persian Immortal unit so we should take an advantage of that.
We also want to build a library in Moscow sooner or later. It's by far our best science town and libraries are only 40(?) shields to us. Don't build any troops there yet as it doesn't have a barracks.
Is it Phaedo's turn now?
Oh and we need a defender in Vladivostok ASAP. Building a city that close to the enemy usually seems to piss them off and they might want to attack us especially if the town is undefended. Personally I would have built it on one of the hill tiles for the defence bonus but it doesn't matter that much.
Similar threads
