Pirates and the Music Industry

[downtown]

I've talked about piracy before on here, but I'd like to open the subject up again...in particular, I'd like to hear suggestions as to how the current music business model can be changed to be more fair to the wants of consumers, while still fairly compensating artists.

I pose to you, dear CFCer, a few questions

1) What Does Piracy mean to you? Nevermind what the law says, we've explained that several times. What do you think? When is it "Okay", or justified? Is it sometimes okay?

2) What can be done to change the music business so that artists still get paid, but you become more likely to pay for the music? Easier digital purchasing? Try before you buy? removing pesky restricting file formats (My suggestion... .m4p has got to go, and .mp3 and its ilk ought to be some sort of standard) Cheaper music? Your thoughts.

3) Is this even possible?

My thoughts later

 

[Jawz II]

being a pirate means not having to pay close to 25 US dollars for a record and then finding out there are only 2 good songs on there.

i admit i have like 5 records where all songs are good, but thats very very rare.
also i dont have to arse around with 80 CD singles which is also good.

for the record 90% of all the stuff i pirate i already have on CD, its just that MP3 is so much better, also i pretty much stopped buying records (just buy 1 or 2 each year now, as opposed to around 100 before) a good 2 years before i started pirating.

how to change the music industry.. hmm i dunno, make music free to listen to?

 

[nihilistic]

1. Piracy is a robbery committed at sea by a non-state agent, which is obviously not 'OK'.

2. Make the music to be bought with money superior to the music that is freely downloadable. Superior means for many people cheap, DRM-free, playable anywhere, high-bitrate, easily obtainable and samplable, and no strings attached. Can't do that? Then don't complain when people opt to download a superior product.

3. Possible in what sense? Theoretically? Yes. Practically? Considering the monolithic structure, overwhelming power, and criminally-minded practice of the RIAA, no.

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

Piracy is the future of the medium. People have always been obtaining music and other forms of art freely, the internet just makes it so much easier. You can either fight it and die, or go with it and live. Musicians don't make any money off of music sales anyways, the record labels do. Get rid of record labels and find another way to facilitate music and musicians.

 

[Jawz II]

the main reason i started my career in piracy:

 

[bhsup]

Piracy (as pertains to this thread) is the stealing of music one has no right to, morally or legally. They are stealing money from the artists and publishers and by extension food from the mouths of babies of artists and publishers.

You want to get some music legally? Buy it, otherwise you are just a criminal trying to make up whiney excuses to justify your criminal behavior. The record you want too expensive right now? Then don't buy it, don't download it illegally, don't obtain it. Just wait until you can afford it. The core problem is this culture of instant gratification bundled with a warped sense of entitlement that people seem to have embraced. "I want it so I deserve it so any action I take to obtain it is fine".

IN short, the business model doesn't need to be changed, the criminal code needs to be changed to start really giving these criminals pause.

 

[downtown]

Piracy is the future of the medium. People have always been obtaining music and other forms of art freely, the internet just makes it so much easier. You can either fight it and die, or go with it and live. Musicians don't make any money off of music sales anyways, the record labels do. Get rid of record labels and find another way to facilitate music and musicians.

I dont know why people continue to say that artists dont make money from CD sales. I've said it again and again (and with all due respect Pasi, I'm in a posistion to know much more about this than you), that record deals and CD sales make up very large amounts of income for artists. You cannot pay your expences on live concerts

 

[Red Door]

1. Piracy is getting free music, but it makes me feel guilty. It's never justified, but I do it anyways.

2. For iTunes, they can reduce the price. I heard they make a 64 cent profit on every song of 99 cents. That's absurd. Reduce the price to 49 cents.

3. This is very possible, but it won't happen because Apple is a bunch of big shot jerks about to be bought by Microsoft.

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

I dont know why people continue to say that artists dont make money from CD sales. I've said it again and again (and with all due respect Pasi, I'm in a posistion to know much more about this than you), that record deals and CD sales make up very large amounts of income for artists. You cannot pay your expences on live concerts

When you hand over fifteen dollars, almost none of that gets passed to the artist. Concerts, endorsements, perks, there's many more things that artists get the vast majority of their income from. If you really are in a position to know more about this than I, I'd like to see your credentials. I have to sign off now and go to bed, so I'll respond to your presentation tomorrow.

And anyways, it's a matter of record that piracy increases music sales, so you can't make the claim that it's hurting the music industry.

 

[downtown]

2. For iTunes, they can reduce the price. I heard they make a 64 cent profit on every song of 99 cents. That's absurd. Reduce the price to 49 cents.

.

I dont think this is true. When I tried to get my music on Itunes, I was told that Apple charges a 25% commission, and then a 3rd party (Because Itunes won't deal with unsigned bands), gets 9%. The band gets the rest. That percentage might vary with the band though. 64 seems really high...nobody charges that sort of a commission, so I cant imagine why anybody would sign up for it.

The biggest problem with Itunes, as Nihil noted, is that stupid DRM, which prohibits where you can play or use the music (1 computer, and you can't burn it on a CD unless you use Itunes). There are some ways around it, but its a huuuge pain in the butt.

Online music servces have two great things going for them. One is price. A big cost in CD publishing is that actual physical publishing...that little book, the jewel cases, the printing on the physical CD, etc etc. Digital music bypasses all of that. The only expences Apple really has are fees to the artists and publishing companies..and storage I guess.

The other thing that have is selection. There are a lot more songs legally than there are illegally ('specially in certain genres). Online music is a little like Pornography. Theres plenty of it online for free, but people still pay for the convience and selection (er...or so I'm told).

If a digital music company decided to sell music for 99 cents a track (or 9.99 for a whole CD, which is a steal), and used .MP3, they'd make bank. Course, thats too risky, because the music would get pirated. Parties have to meet halfway.

 

[Jawz II]

Piracy (as pertains to this thread) is the stealing of music one has no right to, morally or legally. They are stealing money from the artists and publishers and by extension food from the mouths of babies of artists and publishers.

You want to get some music legally? Buy it, otherwise you are just a criminal trying to make up whiney excuses to justify your criminal behavior. The record you want too expensive right now? Then don't buy it, don't download it illegally, don't obtain it. Just wait until you can afford it. The core problem is this culture of instant gratification bundled with a warped sense of entitlement that people seem to have embraced. "I want it so I deserve it so any action I take to obtain it is fine".

IN short, the business model doesn't need to be changed, the criminal code needs to be changed to start really giving these criminals pause.

im not making excuses, but just so you know, the artists see very little money from the records they sell, unless theyre super big like metallica. otherwise they get something like 7% of the profit.

so if i am stealing, its mostly from record companies. and i dont feel 1 iota of guilt. immoral? neh, dont feel that way to me, illegal? yes.

records are really expensive here, i dunno what they cost in america, but probably less than here. if they didnt do their best to screw me, the costumer, i wouldnt screw them outta their money.

 

[downtown]

When you hand over fifteen dollars, almost none of that gets passed to the artist. Concerts, endorsements, perks, there's many more things that artists get the vast majority of their income from. If you really are in a position to know more about this than I, I'd like to see your credentials. I have to sign off now and go to bed, so I'll respond to your presentation tomorrow.

And anyways, it's a matter of record that piracy increases music sales, so you can't make the claim that it's hurting the music industry.

Sure Pasi. I'm a professional musician. I deal with these contracts.
There are hundreds of thousands of bands without endorcement deals...and those are limited to certain genres (when was the last time you saw a blues musician endorce something?)

Perks? Dude, perks are free drinks at the bar, and a groupie to nail afterwards. Perks suck.

Concerts, unless you're playing for 5,000+ on a regular basis, arent enough to make sustain yourself on. If you'd like, I'll explain exactly how concert contracts work. Your ability to tour and give concerts is tied to your abilty to sell CDs as well.

As for that 15 bucks, it depends on the artist, and how smart they were when they signed the deal. That 15 might not go to the artist, because the publisher already gave him 8 thousand. However, you buying the CD allows him to kepe his job, and get a better contract.

As for piracy CAUSING an INCREASE in CD sales, you're going to have to prove that.

 

[aneeshm]

 

[Xanikk999]

I support piracy for products that cant be bought in stores anymore.

Its the companies fault for not making it available to buy.

 

[AL_DA_GREAT]

I am a pirate and I support it 100%. You can't own information and the internet should/could not be controlled. the artists are rich anyways. They can make millions on one concert and who has said that musicians should be super rich. Anyways the only real losers of piracy are the record producers who I honestly don't care about.
Sharing is caring

 

[aneeshm]

@ MattBrown

There is another way.

@ everyone else

The site I have linked to above contains many thousands of hours of (legally) free music, which is free as in freedom. Try it out.

 

[Mr. Dictator]

i download bands i havent heard.

i download bands i dont like too much.

i download bands if i cant find their records because stores around here dont sell it.

and i wouldnt pirate as much if the music business focused on music instead of the business, most mainstream music is disposable.

i did buy the gnarls barkley cd and the new RHCP though.

in short, i buy what i think is worth it and pirate what i think isnt. and i'm not sorry.

 

[AL_DA_GREAT]

One thing I like about piracy is that if I hear some one talk about a band I can download the music just to know what it is but I couldn't pay $25 for a cd just because my friend talked about it.

 

[Mise]

CDs in this country are prohibitively expensive... about 2/3rds more than in the USA. If this country wants me to buy CDs then they'll make them AT LEAST as cheap as in the USA...

That said, if I download one album from a band and I like it, I'll probably go out and buy other albums by them.

Incidentally, most CDs that I buy are recommended to me from my friends, who have downloaded music by that band. Word of mouth is very powerful, and having your friend lend you the CD for you to rip, or sending you a zip file over MSN for you to listen to the band is a hundred times as powerful. So I think it's a mixed blessing.

 

[Mr. Dictator]

Matt, can you tell us how much you make at concerts opposed to CD sales?