Pirates target the wrong ship - a navy frigate

[Flying Pig]

So are carriers, which are possibly the hardest of navy nuts to crack...

 

[Patroklos]

Conning UNREPS is easily one of the most memorable/fun/challenging/nerve racking things I have ever done. I am sure Igloodude probably feels the same way

 

[Zack]

More proof that ninjas are better than pirates.

 

[Flying Pig]

Pirate ninja wizards win any day!

 

[choxorn]

No, not pirate ninja wizards. Pirate ninja zombie cyborg wizards.

 

[mrt144]

Conning UNREPS is easily one of the most memorable/fun/challenging/nerve racking things I have ever done. I am sure Igloodude probably feels the same way

You navy boys are so lame. "OOOOH WE GOT TWICE THE AMOUNT OF CANNED HAM AND ONE PLY TOILET PAPER!"

 

[Patroklos]

One ply? I would have broke the 1LT's nuck if such a thing ever happened

 

[Cutlass]

Here are some warship silhouettes I've found on google. They look kinda like merchant vessels to me

There's two obvious warships in that pic. The others could be support and auxiliary ships, but those are only technically warships in that navies own them, not that they can fight.

 

[Masada]

Here are some warship silhouettes I've found on google. They look kinda like merchant vessels to me

It would help if the scale was right. As it stands you have a tug which looks larger than a cargo ship etc.

One ply? I would have broke the 1LT's nuck if such a thing ever happened

You Americans and your hospitals... real navy men die from broken necks

 

[Mise]

Yes Masada, it would help if all ships were exactly the same distance away from you every time you see them, and all facing the same direction, so that you can clearly see their side profiles, guns and flags. Not to mention that the French ship was deliberately trying to lure the Pirates in -- damn it would be so much easier if they didn't do that!! JEEZE!!! Why can't they all play nicely, and let them know exactly what kind of vessel they are well in advance, so that the pirates can easily identify and attack only defenseless vessels!!!!

@Cutlass: I googled "warship silhouettes" and that stuff came up. I don't know anything about boats.

 

[Masada]

Yes Masada, it would help if all ships were exactly the same distance away from you every time you see them, and all facing the same direction, so that you can clearly see their side profiles, guns and flags. Not to mention that the French ship was deliberately trying to lure the Pirates in -- damn it would be so much easier if they didn't do that!! JEEZE!!! Why can't they all play nicely, and let them know exactly what kind of vessel they are well in advance, so that the pirates can easily identify and attack only defenseless vessels!!!!

I could write a long comprehensive post about how waves at a certain distance look flat and how military vessels (excluding ancillary craft) at significantly narrower and taller than any civilian vessel I'm aware of or how the pirates use legitimate fisherman to scope out targets before they attack or how Lloyds has issued advisories on the whole episode or how the pirates are remarkably similar in structure to Straits Pirates (and I did but I lost it).

But I'm not the only one with some degree of knowledge to respond:

Telling what warship it is, no they would not have much of a hope of that. Telling whether it is a warship period, no I don't think I am being overly harsh. The silhouettes are simply nothing alike and even Somalis pirates (who are usually fisherman types anyway) know the differnece between a sleek meanacing warship and a blocky merchant vessel.

@Cutlass: I googled "warship silhouettes" and that stuff came up. I don't know anything about boats.

And with that in mind I don't see why I bothered.

 

[Mise]

I'm sure ex-navy or military types know a great deal about boats. Does Somalia have a Navy that 17 year old kids are likely to have served under? I suppose we should criticise these kids for not having the years of military experience Patroklos has.

 

[Masada]

I'm sure ex-navy or military types know a great deal about boats. Does Somalia have a Navy that 17 year old kids are likely to have served under? I suppose we should criticise these kids for not having the years of military experience Patroklos has.

It isn't that freaking hard to pick up. Third World Fisherman without reliable radar, maps, charts etc tend to navigate by eye. I'm also led to believe that they often fished at night as well. That implies that they have the ability not to run into each other chasing after the same fish. It also implies that they should have an ability to see and process silhouettes at night.

They were to young to have been proper fisherman. They've come online as pirates at the wrong time, to young to have fished, and probably not old enough to have gained enough experience in the field.

 

[Mise]

You say that, yet the evidence contradicts you (see original article).

 

[Masada]

You say that, yet the evidence contradicts you (see original article).

I've also stated that these particular gentleman were idiots further back in the thread for not using all the tricks open to them like using a fishing-boat to do a pass by to scope for potential targets.

They were to young to have been proper fisherman. They've come online as pirates at the wrong time, to young to have fished, and probably not old enough to have gained enough experience in the field.

Is also confirmed by the article or appears to be.

*

Sailing near the outer bounds of the Seychelles archipelago's waters in the Indian Ocean on Sunday just after dawn, the pirates spotted their potential victim from afar.

Whut?

 

[Mise]

You call them idiots, yet you seem to agree that identifying boats is a skill developed through vast experience of various "legitimate fishermen"! Like I said, you can't expect everybody to be as experienced a boat-spotter as Patroklos or IglooDude.

 

[Masada]

You call them idiots, yet you seem to agree that identifying boats is a skill developed through vast experience of various "legitimate fishermen"! Like I said, you can't expect everybody to be as experienced a boat-spotter as Patroklos or IglooDude.

I'm going to quote Patroklos again:

Telling what warship it is, no they would not have much of a hope of that. Telling whether it is a warship period, no I don't think I am being overly harsh. The silhouettes are simply nothing alike and even Somalis pirates (who are usually fisherman types anyway) know the differnece between a sleek meanacing warship and a blocky merchant vessel.

So even Patroklos seems to agree with me that it isn't that hard to tell a merchant ship from a warship. I'm calling them idiots because they are obviously to young to have been fisherman at any stage (~17 and a little above). As I have stated previously, if these guys were as inept as you seem to suggest they are they would at no time have posed a significant threat to merchant shipping.

 

[Mise]

Man, don't you see how you're contradicting yourself? In one breath you say it's easy to distinguish between warships and merchant vessels, then you say that only a "legitimate fisherman" with years of experience at identifying ships at night and at a distance can tell the difference, and even say that these kids didn't have the experience to tell between them. Then you say that it's supposedly so easy to tell them apart, given that Patroklos, a military expert, says that the silhouettes are nothing alike. Then in yet in another breath, you call them idiots -- not merely inexperienced, but stupid too -- for not being "legitimate fishermen" before becoming pirates? And then you criticise me for calling them "inept", when you plainly admit that they were too stupid to tell the difference between a merchant vessal and a French warship! I've lost count of the number of contradictory statements you've made so far, but there are enough. If this post sounds confused, it's because I've tried to summarise your opinions on the matter, and I think I did it as succinctly as possible.

And no, they clearly did not pose a significant threat to the French Navy, mistaking as they did a warship for a merchant vessel.

 

[IglooDame]

Let's think - warship has a gun, flying colours, doesn't look like it holds much... that's pretty much unmistakeable. Well done to the monkeys!

All ships fly colors at sea (well, they're supposed to, anyway). As to the "has a gun", see below.

It's not hard to beat the one who looks like he's going to win when in your element; see Vietnam, the Falklands, Indochina and all of those sort. The fact is that they by natre have the initiative and so will find it easy to avoid coming under enemy fire since the navy aren't everywhere. That russian gun just makes it easer - I've heard it called the bullet hose; takes no training and does something obscene like 600 shots per minute.

Are you talking about an AK?

They could have just positioned themselves with the stars in the background... that gives you a decent approximation of the shape out at sea. Of course one would need to get closer for that to work. The stupid ones get caught is all that needs to be said.

If you're close enough for that to work, you're too close.

Conning UNREPS is easily one of the most memorable/fun/challenging/nerve racking things I have ever done. I am sure Igloodude probably feels the same way

On that we do agree.

It isn't that freaking hard to pick up. Third World Fisherman without reliable radar, maps, charts etc tend to navigate by eye. I'm also led to believe that they often fished at night as well. That implies that they have the ability not to run into each other chasing after the same fish. It also implies that they should have an ability to see and process silhouettes at night.

Or, you know, turn on a light or hang a lantern or something.

 

[IglooDame]

Here's a somewhat more realistic version of the "warship or not" quiz, but really you need to have someone moving your monitor around, maybe throw a little salt spray at you, and dim the lighting a little, but even at this range if it is a warship your pirate ass is probably about to be caught:

Obviously, neither Patroklos nor I trump the other in terms of seagoing experience (and Masada is talking a pretty good game but I don't have any sense of how much blue-water time he has), so I'd say the question of how stupid the pirates are is still an open question.