Play the Map Series

[JTMacc99]

I had played a couple public games under the Climb the Ladder banner, but with that series in very capable hands, I thought I would like to run a different type of game. In many of my normal games, I like to spice it up by messing around with the map options. Also, I've seen that one of the most frequently given bits of advice is to Play the Map, meaning that strategy depends just as much on the map as it does anything else.

So I was thinking that I could play a series of games where we bat around some ideas for the map options, choose a leader and then see how we need to strategically best handle what we've been dealt. (I also got the idea for this when in my Climb the Ladder 2 game with Zara, I had a group of core cities that were cottage-unfriendly and had to change strategy to come up with a way to generate research.)

If this sounds like a good idea, please let me know and also feel free to throw out some ideas for a good first game.

I am using BTS 3.17 with no unofficial patches. I also use the BUG and BAT mods. The latter has at least a couple really cool extra map scripts like Planet Generator and SmartMap, so I would put up a couple of screen shots to show exactly what options we have to work with as we go along.

I'll attempt to play these games at Monarch, since I've reached a point where I sometimes find myself attacking longbows with infantry at the Prince level these days.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Make it a true series! Haha...even with PYL, LHC, and NC I still need more games .

No but seriously, if you want help making a save into a scenario file let me know.

 

[Bleys]

Speaking for myself, I have developed a map setting that I really enjoy playing. Its not a difficult game at all, so you should have no trouble moving up a level if you choose it. The settings I like are:

Big & Small
Low Sea Level
Snakey Continents
Regular islands
Islands Region Mixed in

I regenerate until I get a coastal start with no stone, marble, gold or gems in the BFC, a couple seafood resources, and as few Ocean tiles as possible.

I then play a TRE game based on the Great Lighthouse.

I shoot for Compass quicker than normal. I make a few galleys and settle islands ASAP for bigger TRs.

I try to use diplomacy to keep the AIs off my back and happily play a REXing builder game until I am ready to start smoking AIs.

Its amazingly fun, quite often, you have a couple AIs on your landmass, and can reach most of the others with Galleys, so trade is open quickly.

If you decide to play this map, I would gladdly shadow it or offer as many tips as I can. I think its a very strong way to move up in difficulty, since overall, your economy will not crash if you overexpand, in fact, you should pump out as many settlers as you can.

 

[Ai Shizuka]

Aww monarch. I was hoping for another prince game.
Out of my league yet, but it will be an interesting read anyway.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Aww monarch. I was hoping for another prince game.
Out of my league yet, but it will be an interesting read anyway.

This is why I suggest a scenario start similar to NC or PYL - you can pick difficulties.

The only annoyance would be varying archers for monarch + vs prince -. It's easy to swap once you're used to it (find&replace =archery with nothing, find&replace beginunit and endunit with nothing, find&replace handicap= with nothing). After that the only things needed to switch would be # of turns, difficulty, and speed...all of which are fine set to 0.

Ok, I guess if you wanted only the one civ to be shown, set all PlayableCiv=1 to =0 except that civ.

It takes a matter of seconds for me to make these changes to a scenario file thanks to find & replace. Of course when I get cute in the games I host with minor civs, changed start locations, changed AIs, or custom pretend islands worldbuildered in for flavor, it takes a little more effort...but still not much.

So if you wanted to play this at prince, immortal, or settler, it'd be pretty easy to do it.

 

[Joshua368]

Try a global highlands map with clustered peaks... you'll get a very interesting maze of mountains forming bubbles and chokepoints, but it won't look unnatural. A fun and unique map type!

Also monarch level is fine, you don't want the game to be too easy.

 

[JTMacc99]

First of all TMIT, what happened to the cat? Did it ever get out of the ceiling?

Second, do you think an oddball map series would get a lot of play? The other three you mentioned have such a broad appeal to everybody, whereas I thought this idea would play better as a learning game where everybody could sort of team up with suggestions and ideas on how to adapt to and overcome situations on unique maps.

I was even thinking that we might find ourselves in a situation where a war needs to be fought specifically to obtain a stategic resource. In my experience, it is only when I mess around with the map settings where if find myself without somethign like coal or oil. Obviously, the game designers did things like put in resource generating corporations and make the AI unwilling to trade strategic resources because having access to strategic resources is so important. However, the normal maps seem to rarely leave me without everything I need.

 

[Winston Hughes]

First of all TMIT, what happened to the cat? Did it ever get out of the ceiling?

Some believe that he walked among us for a time...

 

[UWHabs]

Whatever maps, I say yay for Monarch! Seems like the vast majority of games around are either noble/prince, or immortal/deity, leaving us who can usually kick butt at prince but fail miserably at monarch in trouble.

I'd say just a basic series on fairly normal maps, each with a twist, would work well. So trying out an islands map, maybe a desert map, a tropical one (with jungles everywhere). If you want to mapbuilder, you can even do a custom continents one, maybe where each island "specializes" in a certain resource (ie. all the coal but maybe 1 of them are located on one island). Or try a map with only 1 or 2 horses in it, which the human can't get easily. Or even a case where the human player doesn't have any resources which are unlocked until calendar.

Of course, if you know what you lack ahead of time, it sort of cheapens it a bit. If you're just testing out a generic map (ie. how to play pangaea vs how to play islands/jungle/etc...) knowing before is fine, but if it's more of a "resource-specific play", not letting the rest of us know (or not even knowing yourself) could be a valuable tool (probably in trying to recognize the situation early enough to plan for it).

 

[JTMacc99]

The map with a twist is in line with what I'm thinking. Like the map that Bleys offers up, it gives you a much different flavor to the way you go about expanding, selecting city sites, generating commerce, and waging war.

While we would be selecting the variables to pretty much guarantee that we'll need to do some things differently than an ordinary continents game, we will also be attempting some techniques and thought processes that could be used in any game where the map generator gives you a challenge.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

First of all TMIT, what happened to the cat? Did it ever get out of the ceiling?

Second, do you think an oddball map series would get a lot of play? The other three you mentioned have such a broad appeal to everybody, whereas I thought this idea would play better as a learning game where everybody could sort of team up with suggestions and ideas on how to adapt to and overcome situations on unique maps.

I was even thinking that we might find ourselves in a situation where a war needs to be fought specifically to obtain a stategic resource. In my experience, it is only when I mess around with the map settings where if find myself without somethign like coal or oil. Obviously, the game designers did things like put in resource generating corporations and make the AI unwilling to trade strategic resources because having access to strategic resources is so important. However, the normal maps seem to rarely leave me without everything I need.

I'm not a good judge of what would get a "lot of play". This might come as a surprise rolleyes, but I play like everything haha...and believe it or not offline games too in addition to other games (2-3 hour games let you do this...).

However, I think it has potential. It's a different enough theme from other series that it's not like we're massing standardized games. On top of that, it offers an opportunity for a change-up to players.

Does that translate into a lot of people posting game summaries and comparing? I have no idea, but I at least think it has potential.

PS: Why would ceiling cat ever leave the ceiling? Ceiling cat is always watching you. He was even watching as I changed my avatar. Always watching...

 

[JTMacc99]

I never even considered that the ceiling cat might actually like it up there. Who changes the litter for him, or is that hole in the ceiling multi-purpose?


I think what I might like to do is play a couple in standard ALC format and then maybe start slotting in some Nobles Club/PYL rounds as well.

Just out of curiosity, if I generated a game using one of the mods like SmartMap, it would work for everybody even if they don't have the mod, correct? I'm playing my first ever game using SmartMap and am kind of enjoying the differences it created. (In particular, the fact that floodplains could occur on a grassland or plains tile.)

 

[TheMeInTeam]

PM or post the file here and I'll test if it works. I only have HoF and BUG, although I usually don't run BUG.

From me though, it will have to wait until tomorrow night. A half hour presentation, a 20+ page group paper, and a test loom in tonight's class and tomorrow's 2.

 

[DMOC]

How do you get through games in 2-3 hours? Just wondering (normal speed, right?).

And to the topic poster -- I would like to follow one of these games. Please begin as soon as you can.

 

[Gliese 581]

How do you get through games in 2-3 hours? Just wondering (normal speed, right?).

And to the topic poster -- I would like to follow one of these games. Please begin as soon as you can.

He pretends it's a multiplayer RTS, move those fingers!

 

[JTMacc99]

Alrighty then, how about I go with the setting Bleys suggested above, and I think I'm due for a game as Napoleon. He's not a perfect choice for a water based map, but Organized gives half price lighthouses and courthouses, so he's not the worst choice for a watery map either.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

How do you get through games in 2-3 hours? Just wondering (normal speed, right?).

And to the topic poster -- I would like to follow one of these games. Please begin as soon as you can.

One of my fastest games was domination on earth 18 civs on prince/epic - under 2 hours. That's a bit extreme though.

My typical/preferred game speed is epic actually (I like war, but I don't like horrendous imbalance associated with marathon...plus marathon is really slow and it makes me take 4-5 hours), and games run 2-4 on average (very common to see just over 3).

As for how, it's kind of like gliese says in a sense - focus I attained playing ranked starcraft and warcraft 3 matches for years...but there's some tricks that apply to civ that help.

For cities, I've learned to use the governor so that I have a very, very good feel for what emphasize food, hammers, commerce, and great people does to tiles worked. Enough that before clicking it I know if it's likely I'll need to swap tiles manually.

I almost never pick anything from pop-up boxes, I queue builds and assign more by clicking on the city name and mouse wheeling along the bottom. Lots of shift, control, and alt-clicking. How do I prevent building something I don't want when plans change? Focus...for 12 cities or less I can usually remember what's queued. That's why there's some variance in my games...when I'm really focused/trying/caring, queuing mistakes drop to 0 or very close. I take a very similar approach with techs. Note that while this has error chances, it also functions as a form of planning...which is otherwise hard to come by in 2-3 hour games.

I also use unit waypoints a lot, and even though I automate my workers later and later, decision heuristics allow me to make improvement decisions very rapidly.

Past that, it's just basic fast decision making and clicking. It's not everyone's cup of tea. I thought I might need to slow down for higher difficulties, but it seems more a function of more to learn - I'm noting improvement on immortal as is. Will I ever be able to win a deity/epic domination game on a standard map in under 3 hours? I don't know, but I'll sure as hell try.

 

[Ormur]

Wow, my games take a lot longer. It's not that I micromanage everything, I use the governor and let workers do things that look sensible without checking the city screen every time. But I really like taking a survey of may empire after each turn, I'm not in any rush. My computer is also pretty slow.

Perhaps it's just that I was never any good at Starcraft. I've seen how good players play it and that explains how fast your civ games go to me.

 

[DMOC]

My fastest epic game was 12 hours something. It was the Darius game I posted here.

How you get 2-3 hours, I can't imagine lol (I couldn't memorize queues and waypoints). I take a half hour actually planning out the game then another hour getting through 1000 BC.

 

[Rusten]

How you get 2-3 hours, I can't imagine lol (I couldn't memorize queues and waypoints). I take a half hour actually planning out the game then another hour getting through 1000 BC.

If you're used to playing like this then you spend most of your ingame time waiting for the civ interface, not your own actions. I've played RTS for several years making some money off of it in the process and unless the map at hand requires extra thought or a special strategy you can blaze through it fast as long as you have a good computer and suitable options. Good RTS players usually have about 200-300 actions per minute so with a better interface you could play much faster than 2-3 hours too.

It's unnecessary in turn-based games, but if youre used to it it won't hurt you that much. However, you're bound to overlook som in-depth strategy every now and then.