[NFP] Portugal is the last NFP Civilization confirmed. Also... Zombies??!!

[HiRezAudio]

It is thanks to the stringency for historical accuracy that we have better leader and cultural representation.

Man, that's funny. Unintentionally but still hilarious, because modern academia is so spot-on with all it's own assumptions!

 

[GenyaArikado]

....Joao?

This is sexism

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

....Joao?

This is sexism

No, this is just Firaxis deviating from 1/3 Female to Male Leader ratio. Joao III was a good Leader in his own right, so there is no need to complain. Although, this brings up some questions...

 

[Linklite]

....Joao?

This is sexism

Only around 10% of current world leaders ae female, and I can't imagine it historically being much better. Dipping below a proportion of 1/3 hardly justifies accusations of sexism. Unless you have an alternative justification for your accusation, that was uncalled for.

 

[Flactine]

One could argue that the Portuguese were simply spice-hungry zombies themselves...

I think Haitian is the most suitable for zombie

 

[AntSou]

....Joao?

This is sexism

You've admitted on several different occasions to only playing female leaders.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

You've admitted on several different occasions to only playing female leaders.

Only around 10% of current world leaders ae female, and I can't imagine it historically being much better. Dipping below a proportion of 1/3 hardly justifies accusations of sexism. Unless you have an alternative justification for your accusation, that was uncalled for.

All good arguments, but this does raise some questions among people: Why pick Joao III? Why him instead of Henry the Navigator or Manuel I?

Well, here are some facts about him that might soothe some doubts. I'm taking this from Britannica because while Wikipedia has information, it's far less reliable:

"His long reign saw the development of Portuguese seapower in the Indian Ocean, the occupation of the Brazilian coast, and the establishment of the Portuguese Inquisition and of the Society of Jesus."

https://www.britannica.com/biography/John-III-king-of-Portugal

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I wonder if they'll be white and blue, or the unreadable combination of green and red.

I'd guess white and blue as main. Red and green might be a secondary combination.

I think the colors and icon were the same on the achievement as Civ 5: dark blue on white resembling the 5 shields in the coat of arms.

....Joao?

This is sexism

Considering we just got Ba Treiu over any actual male leader from Vietnam, I don't see the correlation of the developers being sexist?

All good arguments, but this does raise some questions among people: Why pick Joao III? Why him instead of Henry the Navigator or Manuel I?

Well Henry the Navigator was a prince, and never actually ruled Portugal, although that obviously doesn't matter all the time.

As for Joao III over Manuel I, I don't know? Maybe because he ruled the Portuguese Empire when it was expanded all the way into Asia as well as the New World. Plus "Grocer King" sounds like a better agenda or ability name better than "the Fortunate.

 

[AntSou]

"His long reign saw the development of Portuguese seapower in the Indian Ocean, the occupation of the Brazilian coast, and the establishment of the Portuguese Inquisition and of the Society of Jesus."

It's probably simpler than that. It might just be because his frame fits better with one of the already existing leaders. A female leader would likely look visually too similar to Catherine (Luisa) or Vitoria (Maria I/II).

I suspect they'll use this as visual aid and use Philip's frame.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

I suspect they'll use this as visual aid and use Philip's frame.

That, or as @Zaarin suggested, Peter's animations. The two work either way.

Well Henry the Navigator was a prince, and never actually ruled Portugal, although that obviously doesn't matter all the time.

Fair.

As for Joao III over Manuel I, I don't know? Maybe because he ruled the Portuguese Empire when it was expanded all the way into Asia as well as the New World. Plus "Grocer King" sounds like a better agenda or ability name better than "the Fortunate.

He has three things he can use for his Agenda that I can name:

1: Casa de India
2: Manueline Style
3: Portuguese Renaissance

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

No, this is just Firaxis deviating from 1/3 Female to Male Leader ratio. Joao III was a good Leader in his own right, so there is no need to complain. Although, this brings up some questions...

Yes it does. Portugal had female leaders. The well known ones were lackluster, but there were some solid, albeit more obscure choices. Heck, Firaxis used Maria last time, so we know they're willing to go there. So the question of what motivated this selection and deviation from the usual ratio is intriguing. Joao III is a solid choice, but is he really so great as to break that important representation ratio? It makes one suspect that there's a bonus female leader out there in the ether.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Yes it does. Portugal had female leaders. The well known ones were lackluster, but there were some solid, albeit more obscure choices. Heck, Firaxis used Maria last time, so we know they're willing to go there. So the question of what motivated this selection and deviation from the usual ratio is intriguing. Joao III is a solid choice, but is he really so great as to break that important representation ratio? It makes one suspect that there's a bonus female leader out there in the ether.

...So many big words here. I wouldn't call the ratio "important," per se, more like "traditional," if you will. It's not important to the state of gameplay, but it has become something we are now accustomed to so much, that when Firaxis deviates from this established path, we are left scratching our heads and wondering in puzzlement about why they would commit such an act. More big words...

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Yes it does. Portugal had female leaders. The well known ones were lackluster, but there were some solid, albeit more obscure choices. Heck, Firaxis used Maria last time, so we know they're willing to go there. So the question of what motivated this selection and deviation from the usual ratio is intriguing. Joao III is a solid choice, but is he really so great as to break that important representation ratio? It makes one suspect that there's a bonus female leader out there in the ether.

That's an interesting theory.
Maybe we get Maria I leading both Portugal and Brazil for free in the April Update. If you don't own the Portugal pack she's only for Brazil.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

...So many big words here. I wouldn't call the ratio "important," per se, more like "traditional," if you will. It's not important to the state of gameplay, but it has become something we are now accustomed to so much, that when Firaxis deviates from this established path, we are left scratching our heads and wondering in puzzlement about why they would commit such an act. More big words...

It's not important from the gameplay perspective, but it is "good corporate citizenship", which Firaxis has demonstrated a tendency toward to in the past.

 

[ferretbacon]

Whatever the reason for deviating, I'm pleased we won't see Maria again. I love it when they include strong female leaders, not when they simply shoehorn one in to meet a representation ratio/quota. Maria felt very much like the latter.

 

[blackbutterfly]

Whatever the reason for deviating, I'm pleased we won't see Maria again. I love it when they include strong female leaders, not when they simply shoehorn one in to meet a representation ratio/quota. Maria felt very much like the latter.

What about Elanor? Or Catherine?

The only female leader from Civ V that I'm glad didn't make it into Civ VI is Byzantium's Theodora. Not for historical reasons but cos of her constant backstabbing. She was annoying AF

 

[ferretbacon]

What about Elanor? Or Catherine?

The only female leader from Civ V that I'm glad didn't make it into Civ VI is Byzantium's Theodora. Not for historical reasons but cos of her constant backstabbing. She was annoying AF

I see both Eleanor and Catherine as strong characters, though I'm a little disappointed we didn't see Napoleon back, particularly when they decided to add Imperial Guards to France.

Cleopatra is a bit lame, too. There are actually female leaders of Egypt who are more deserving. I think Gorgo was an odd choice for an alternate leader; going back to France, I wish they'd given us both Napoleon and Catherine instead. Otherwise, I don't think they did a bad job this time around with female representation.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I see both Eleanor and Catherine as strong characters, though I'm a little disappointed we didn't see Napoleon back, particularly when they decided to add Imperial Guards to France.

Cleopatra is a bit lame, too. There are actually female leaders of Egypt who are more deserving. I think Gorgo was an odd choice for an alternate leader; going back to France, I wish they'd given us both Napoleon and Catherine instead. Otherwise, I don't think they did a bad job this time around with female representation.

I've grown used to all of them but I agree that they wouldn't be my first choice.
I'd initially rather Louis XIV instead of Catherine though. I think the Imperial Guard as the UU was supposed to represent putting Napoleon in the game, without him being a leader anyway.
Eleanor get's a pass because she leads two civilizations though there were still better options for England, such as Elizabeth. But then again I think the Sea Dog as the UU was supposed to represent her.

I don't mind Gorgo and Cleopatra though Gorgo could have just easily been Leonidas.

 

[GenyaArikado]

Moderator Action: *Snip* Yes, most leaders were made since we live in a patriarchal world, but Civ isn't an accurate depiction of history, they could have CHOSEN to keep the female ratio at least, either with Portugual or someone else. Moderator Action: *Snip*

And Luisa de Guzman >>>>>>>

Moderator Action: Edited post to bring it in line with forum rules. Discussion of leader choices is fine, however, indirect insults, such as posts which characterize an opinion, a person or a group of people negatively are not tolerated. ~ LK
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[pokiehl]

It is absolutely uncalled for to accuse the developers of sexism. No history 4x game ever has had this many historical female leaders included - they’ve gone above and beyond. They have proven time and time again to be extremely thoughtful about their depictions of cultures and nations in this game in nearly all aspects.

Moderator Action: Reminder to not engage with posts that can be considered flaming/trolling. Report problematic posts to the moderators. ~ LK