[NFP] Portugal (March 2021) - Patch Notes Discussion

[Republic of San Montuoso]

I know Grote Riverien is already a powerful ability but I think it needs something to add to trading. I think a simple +1 trade route capacity for shipyards would help considering they are already incentivized to build harbors.


I think that's the main problem. The only way the Dutch can manage an overseas empire with loyalty is by sending trade routes from those cities.

At least Portugal got around the loyalty problem considering they don't have to go out and establish cities on other continents, just trading posts.

For me you missed my point. I'm saying that the Dutch aren't designed to be a trade civ but a building/settling civ. Giving them trade bonuses would spread them and take away what make them unique. They don't need trade bonuses, they need settling bonuses. Before being a trade civ, what really make the Dutch unique in the history of civilizations is their constant fight against the ocean. A fight they are winning.

 

[Francel]

But if everyone gets buffed, then nobody is imbalanced. Right? Powerful civs are more fun to play. Let's make them all powerful.

I agree somewhat. I think that as long as humans can play the game with such superior decision making, the developers should be cautions about making civs too powerful. Humans will be able to leverage certain abilities in ways the AI cannot, and it makes for rather dull and uninspired gameplay imo.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

For me you missed my point. I'm saying that the Dutch aren't designed to be a trade civ but a building/settling civ. Giving them trade bonuses would spread them and take away what make them unique. They don't need trade bonuses, they need settling bonuses. Before being a trade civ, what really make the Dutch unique in the history of civilizations is their constant fight against the ocean. A fight they are winning.

I don't see why they can't have a little bit of both?

My main point was it doesn't matter about the settling bonuses, because if you settle far away it would make the cities easier to flip. That's why I still think trading bonuses would help because that's the only way that they can acquire a bunch of loyalty to keep those cities. I think solely relying at least on domestic trade routes for loyalty is one way of doing that.

 

[Futumch]

So I've scored a culture victory in my Portugal game. Now I'm having a look at a Wetlands map and playing as Vietnam.
Good grief it's rugged terrain, that's for sure. This seems to be one of those maps where there's a couple of really big continents, and the other 6-7* (huge map) are sort of shards between the big ones. Like someone dropped two bricks onto a frozen puddle.
It's still early days for this game but it looks interesting so far. My nearest neighbours are Alexander, RR Teddy and Trajan.

*(I can't remember if there's 8 or 9 continents in a huge map)

 

[Pietato]

But if everyone gets buffed, then nobody is imbalanced. Right? Powerful civs are more fun to play. Let's make them all powerful.

As long as they slow the game down substantially.

 

[Luziadus]

Not sure if someone replied to this, but

Green and red are the colors of the portuguese flag, that's why. I was actually expecting these to be the standard colors and was a bit baffled when I saw blue and white - until I rememberd those were the colors of the first portuguese flag (or one of the first).

nop, Portuguese real colors are blue and white not green and red that is just a historical error waiting to be corrected as is based by a terrorist group flag that existed in the country, dont have nothing to do with the country.

I just realized Feitorias give sight in their vicinity like forts do. Kinda neat.

feitorias were like customs exchange/embassy/forts all in one single building.

 

[Kwami]

nop, Portuguese real colors are blue and white not green and red that is just a historical error waiting to be corrected as is based by a terrorist group flag that existed in the country, dont have nothing to do with the country.

Do you mean the republican movement that overthrew the monarchy? Because I'm pretty sure that they won't be "corrected" any time soon.

 

[Kmart_Elvis]

There was a suggestion earlier by a couple people that feotorias needed to be buffed and the 50% yield bonus should be nerfed. I completely agree with this.

Feotorias are hard to get to begin with. I'm playing an archipelago map with all coastal civs, and I'm even having trouble building them. At the most, I can't build more than one in a city. It just makes more sense that a player would have to work towards getting the bonus. +1 route per civ is already a bit cheesy, but getting 50% more yields regardless if a feitoria is there is just ridiculous. Maybe that bonus should be transferred to feitoria cities. Again, you can't just plop them anywhere, and it does require the player to be constantly scanning the map to find good spots. Just seems like a no brainer to me.

 

[Republic of San Montuoso]

There was a suggestion earlier by a couple people that feotorias needed to be buffed and the 50% yield bonus should be nerfed. I completely agree with this.

Feotorias are hard to get to begin with. I'm playing an archipelago map with all coastal civs, and I'm even having trouble building them. At the most, I can't build more than one in a city. It just makes more sense that a player would have to work towards getting the bonus. +1 route per civ is already a bit cheesy, but getting 50% more yields regardless if a feitoria is there is just ridiculous. Maybe that bonus should be transferred to feitoria cities. Again, you can't just plop them anywhere, and it does require the player to be constantly scanning the map to find good spots. Just seems like a no brainer to me.

It really depends, though. In my last game, I managed to put on average 3 feitorias in each coastal Malian and Dutch civ.
On the other hand, limiting the +50% yields from trade routes to cities with a Feitoria could work, though. Limiting the early power creep of Portugal.

 

[Futumch]

what really make the Dutch unique in the history of civilizations is their constant fight against the ocean.

North Korea is doing that every so often. I don't think they're gonna win, no matter how many missiles they shoot into the sea.

 

[Old Victoria]

nop, Portuguese real colors are blue and white not green and red that is just a historical error waiting to be corrected as is based by a terrorist group flag that existed in the country, dont have nothing to do with the country.

Not my kind of humor.

 

[Melkus]

On the other hand, limiting the +50% yields from trade routes to cities with a Feitoria could work, though.

It's a tough one for a quick mod, unfortunately. Feitoria bonuses and the trade modifier are easily adjustable (as numbers), but one is a flat number and the other is a percentage that is applied to every international trade route for Portugal (you can't give it to particular routes, I think).
Giving the feitoria different trade yields like science or culture seems possible too.

 

[AntSou]

nop, Portuguese real colors are blue and white not green and red that is just a historical error waiting to be corrected as is based by a terrorist group flag that existed in the country, dont have nothing to do with the country.

Maybe stop idolizing a time and place you never lived in and know nothing of?

 

[Luziadus]

Not my kind of humor.

Swap the word humor with knownledge, you might learn something you dont know.

Maybe stop idolizing a time and place you never lived in and know nothing of?

in the era of Information ignorance is a choice, maybe stop chosing it and some things start to make sense instead of calling idolisation mixed with time place and whatever more words you use to justify that choice.

 

[Xandinho]

Has anyone seen AI Portugal building Feitorias?

 

[AntSou]

Swap the word humor with knownledge, you might learn something you dont know.

in the era of Information ignorance is a choice, maybe stop chosing it and some things start to make sense instead of calling idolisation mixed with time place and whatever more words you use to justify that choice.

Why do you keep referring to a mundane historical fact as if it were some secluded and convoluted bit of information? The history of the Republic and the flag is taught in 5th grade.

The flag is what the people want it to be, not something set in stone for eternity. Since we live in a democracy, I guess you're out of luck:



"Picture of a wild Monarchist Party failing miserably, circa 2019"

 

[Oberinspektor Derrick]

I agree somewhat. I think that as long as humans can play the game with such superior decision making, the developers should be cautions about making civs too powerful. Humans will be able to leverage certain abilities in ways the AI cannot, and it makes for rather dull and uninspired gameplay imo.

I agree with that sentiment.
I still hope the devs manage to find a sweet spot where a civ isn't outright OP with the right decision making, but still unique enough to add a very distinct playstyle.
A leader like Wilhelmina for instance - I really do hate her.
She is about as bland as you can get, and her only real distinguishing feature is that she should prefer to settle along rivers and coast.
But a slight adjacency bonus for districts near a river/polders isn't fun for me at all, which is why I'll happily reroll if I ever get her as a random leader, as she's about as close to being a plain vanilla civ for me as you can get.

Contrast this to someone like Kupe or Aztecs, where you can get some very distinct playstyles and approaches to how you play the game, based on a few features alone that significantly change them from a vanilla civ.

 

[Futumch]

Has anyone seen AI Portugal building Feitorias?

Not in my current game yet. In fact I don't think he's even got harbours in his coastal cities.
I'm only playing at prince difficulty though. Still you'd think by turn 70 he'd get a move on.

 

[Kwami]

Not in my current game yet. In fact I don't think he's even got harbours in his coastal cities.
I'm only playing at prince difficulty though. Still you'd think by turn 70 he'd get a move on.

Turn 70 is pretty early to be building caravels. Especially on prince difficulty.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

I find it weird that Mogadishu's bonus is protecting your traders on water tiles.... can someone explain to me how this bonus is relevant to Mogadishu?