Post a (tough) Deity map for me to play

[Lain]

New game. Isolated Tokugawa so it kind of overlaps with the other thread, but I would also welcome new suggestions for the next game(s ). And we already had Toku over there.

Spoiler :

Will update saves from my playthrough as I go along.

 

[Fippy]

Looks like a nice map

Spoiler :

I want double seafood first, what do you think?
Seems really good with lots of forests too and no border pop need, got somewhat lucky finding it early cos i wanted to sneak up north via the forest plains hill and saw 1 food then looked if there's something else.

Forgot adding, spoiler is for turn 37 but you might find some map info from scouting if really early in your game still.

 

[Fippy]

Turn 74

Spoiler :

Really liking MC with forge for +1 happy here over Monarchy.
Some details, GS from Kyoto and Osaka for sure. In Tokyo i want to 3 pop whip the library into a forge when i reach MC, good idea?

 

[Lain]

Spoiler :

Metal Casting over Monarchy is interesting, hmm.
I considered going for the lonely silver, but prefered to grow 4 cities big instead.
Whip seems good

I also built an academy here.

 

[Izuul]

So 3rd city....

Spoiler :

I'm kind of debating between 1NW of rice by the lake vs directly on top of the rice. Long-term the rice is 5F with CS, but that's a long ways away. 3F city tile and a couple of FPs would be plenty of food. Fresh water doesn't seem like a major consideration since there's already corn, rice, fish, and clams here. I think it's a better helper city 1NW of rice though so that would be stronger if going for Monarchy so it can grow more cottages for Kyoto and then give them back later. It would still ultimately have 3 of it's own.

I think I'm leaning towards 1NW of rice and going for Monarchy. Tokyo can get 6 river cottages and a few more grassland. That's a strong size ~10 capitol.

To silver or not to silver? It would largely be a wasted city and seems much better if NOT going for Monarchy, but it could generate 8c at size 2 with just lake and silver. I see 4 much stronger spots though, so probably not worth it if pursuing Monarchy.

 

[Fippy]

MC vs Monarchy, Rice city

Spoiler :

I considered Mona, but without having Myst and no real need for border pops (floodplains spot east will do without fish i think until library and bigger tasks)..seemed expensive.
Good point with settling on Rice, for some reason i never thought about that
Probably liked the instant trade route and shared cottages, not so much for Bur. later but early worker turns. But then i improved Rice, oops..

 

[Fippy]

Optics, an interesting try so far with MC

Spoiler :

Happy with: Optics date, Academy, okay Infra with Forges, cottages for Kyoto.
Hmm or not so happy: 16t on my mixed scientist + Engi try in Tokyo, would be better if i knew earlier for Astro. I thought he will be useful for a golden age if it's GE.
Trireme from silver city slightly out of place.

 

[Lain]

Hmm

Spoiler :

You have about 10T faster Optics than me. So Monarchy probably not worth it? Also only 4 cities for me.
Also madness going on in my game, 875 BC Taoism, 1 AD Sankore etc... going to be fun
Thinking about Globe Theatre in Fish-FP-City.

Low happiness for drafting... island is really bad for resource trades. We have no doubles except fishy. Theatres for culture slider could be good.

 

[Fippy]

Meh..if you can barely get trades with 25AD optics -.-
Will jump to your war save instead
I feel like fighting a bit instead of endless tech grinding, interesting part here for me was silver + forge.

I looked a bit over your youtube game, and i must say your cities look very nice and big so not sure at all if Monarchy is worse.
What i wondered about, you did not tech pottery before BW hmm..i really liked those early floodplains cottages, barbs only from east so felt save without copper.

 

[Lain]

Hm my wars usually go like this:

1100 AD Steel: "Hm only 15 units, most people have Rifles soon... let's wait for my own Rifles.
1150 AD Rifling: "Ok, just whip a few Rifles and gooo"
1200 AD: "Almost reaaady, just ship everything..."
1250 AD: Declare war
1300 AD: Enemy has Artillery/Infantry or even worse, maybe Destroyers already. Or just too many units, reinforcements come too slow, losing too many cannons vs Rifles and stuff like this.

-> gg . So this time I will try drafting a lot.

 

[Fippy]

I think we really should tech Mil.Science instead of steel here first
Aggressive Grens are doing good vs. Justis no hill coastal cities, i would probably not even bring siege but bombard with Frigates and attack them all Naval.
Could be a really nice strike, and then we can still take cease fire and bring cannons when it's time for his inner cities.

 

[Izuul]

Well i got 250 AD Optics going through Monarchy, had pretty decent BPT (~150) and an academy, but everyone except Mansa had Optics. Joao got Astro shortly after that too. I hate when Joao is in these ISO games. He always goes for Optics for his UU and then when i meet everyone half or more of them have Optics because of him. I don't feel like playing on.. considering this one a loss.

I thought 250 AD was still a good enough Optics date to justify the Monarchy detour to get better BPT for teching on towards Steel later, but maybe not. I remember Pedro said he was starting to think that just getting Optics as early as possible is the most important thing in these games. I'm sure there's some limit to that.. like you don't necessarily need Optics in the BCs, but 1AD-200 AD seems like a good target if possible.

Your MC approach may work out better here. How are trades in your game with 1 AD Optics?

FWIW, i reloaded my game back around 500-600 BC and settled the silver as a 5th city to see if it made much difference and i ended up with the same Optics date (within 1T at least). I think the silver allowing all other cities to grow 1 size without building warriors is worth it. The lake + silver tile is OK commerce too.

 

[Fippy]

Was not good Izuul, think i got maths and Alpha then everybody had Optics.
Typical Mansa techer continent

 

[Lain]

Crazy tech pace... you are scaring me, I have to play that thing till the end.

Let's talk about Ragnar in the other thread . Naval attack o.o I want to see.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

With a border pop, you can claim silver & wine with a single city. Worth it ?
Monument can be a 4 turn build if a worker is on duty.

I'm not familiar with the tech path in isolation but Monarchy seems like a no-brainer to me, here. Cottages, wine...

Agree with Fippy @ Pottery first.
^ Maybe I say so because I dabbled with the map and settled 1S, getting a 3rd floodplains in the capital.
Actually went 2nd worker at size 4 before 1st settler. Chop 2x + whip. Repeat and rince for 2nd settler.

Whether it's better to stagnate the capital only 2 turns or to put more overflow into the granary is a question that I don't have any answer for.

@ Second worker :
It delays the 2nd city, for sure, but I would think this is made up by an easier development.
It becomes rather easy to chop into a 4 turns workboat,
and then it allows to have 30 hammers into the granary at early size 2 to whip it.
Downside : you burn more forests.

@ Lain :
I had a peek at your 1000 BC save and Library in Tokyo before the workboat for the clams seems strange.
I suppose you were worried about the low happy cap ?

 

[Izuul]

I tried again and got 200 AD Optics (via Monarchy again) with (2) 1T caravels, a trireme to upgrade, 2 explorers, and the whole works. This time everybody had Optics when i met them and Lib went in 250 AD. SB has 12 cities and Mansa as a vassal. I'm in worse shape than i was in my first attempt with 2 or 3T later Optics. Oh well.

 

[Lain]

That's pretty tough... having played further, the AI setup here is really terrible for us.

@BornInCantaloup : Library first because I was worried about getting 3 GS in a reasonable timeframe (academy, 2x Astro bulb). And yes, I felt that the happy cap couldn't support that much growth.

 

[Fippy]

Joao even had Astro already in my game when i met him 75AD or so
If you can get any trades (maths, alpha, calendar..) with 200AD optics or later here, you got very lucky.

 

[Lain]

Not a particularly tough looking map, but in case anyone wants to play along in my latest game .

Spoiler :

 

[Pedro78]

Crazy game

Not sure I would qualify that as a "hard map", but was definitely a fun opening

Edit - watched the beggining of your video. Improving the clam first when you can have a T10 worker AND have Wheat+Corn is awfully slow. Too bad you lost the GLH -- I got it really late (game would still have been in a good position had I lost it, though)