Preaching Christianity

[PeteAtoms]

Matthew 21:18-22

Early in the morning, as he was on his way back to the city, he was hungry. Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, "May you never bear fruit again!" Immediately the tree withered.

When the disciples saw this, they were amazed. "How did the fig tree wither so quickly?" they asked.

Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer."

Mark 11:12-14, 19-25

The next day as they were leaving Bethany, Jesus was hungry. Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs. Then he said to the tree, "May no one ever eat fruit from you again." And his disciples heard him say it.

When evening came, they went out of the city.

In the morning, as they went along, they saw the fig tree withered from the roots. Peter remembered and said to Jesus, "Rabbi, look! The fig tree you cursed has withered!"

"Have faith in God," Jesus answered. "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, `Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive him, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins."

TL;DR = "There is no spoon."

I also have to agree with those that say preaching Jesus' divinity is fairly important in Christianity. If you don't have the fear of Hell, missionaries would be much less successful converting heathens...

Buddhism and Jesus apparently have strong similarities in what they preached/believed. But you don't see many Buddhist missionaries or preachers...

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Matthew 21:18-22

Early in the morning, as he was on his way back to the city, he was hungry. Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, "May you never bear fruit again!" Immediately the tree withered.

When the disciples saw this, they were amazed. "How did the fig tree wither so quickly?" they asked.

Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer."

Mark 11:12-14, 19-25

The next day as they were leaving Bethany, Jesus was hungry. Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs. Then he said to the tree, "May no one ever eat fruit from you again." And his disciples heard him say it.

When evening came, they went out of the city.

In the morning, as they went along, they saw the fig tree withered from the roots. Peter remembered and said to Jesus, "Rabbi, look! The fig tree you cursed has withered!"

"Have faith in God," Jesus answered. "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, `Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive him, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins."

So Jesus killed a tree because it didn't have any ripe fruit out of season? That's just mean and spiteful. It's not a very loving thing to do.

If he wanted figs out of season, why didn't he just pray for them?

 

[PeteAtoms]

You know, that story is really weird to me when compared to the temptation of Christ in the desert. Jesus apparently didn't want to use any of his super powers or magic tricks to feed himself or make a bed, but Jesus is ok with smiting fig trees and throwing mountains into the sea with his powers?

 

[Lone Wolf]

So Jesus killed a tree because it didn't have any ripe fruit out of season? That's just mean and spiteful. It's not a very loving thing to do.

Apparently, he did it all to make his point about faith and prayer more convincing.

 

[civ_king]

Quite simply it is preaching that God sent his son to die for our sins.

Jesus Christ! Will you please read the Bible there is a whole lot more to it than John 3:16, you can't just believe in Jesus you need to do good works too.

I disagree that the resurection isn't important. It's the most important thing in Christianity. Here's what most Christians of all denominations can usually agree on:

It is definitely important

So Jesus killed a tree because it didn't have any ripe fruit out of season? That's just mean and spiteful. It's not a very loving thing to do.

If he wanted figs out of season, why didn't he just pray for them?

I think the lesson is that God can smite whatever, whenever for whatever reason, be afraid, be very afraid

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I disagree that the resurection isn't important. It's the most important thing in Christianity.

Why?

What impact does it have on the message/teachings of Christ?

I also have to agree with those that say preaching Jesus' divinity is fairly important in Christianity. If you don't have the fear of Hell, missionaries would be much less successful converting heathens...

Buddhism and Jesus apparently have strong similarities in what they preached/believed. But you don't see many Buddhist missionaries or preachers...

See, I don't subscribe to the cynical marketing angle being the most important feature of Christianity.

So Jesus killed a tree because it didn't have any ripe fruit out of season? That's just mean and spiteful. It's not a very loving thing to do.

If he wanted figs out of season, why didn't he just pray for them?

You know, that story is really weird to me when compared to the temptation of Christ in the desert. Jesus apparently didn't want to use any of his super powers or magic tricks to feed himself or make a bed, but in that story apparently he's ok with destroying a fig tree?

Alright, I'm going to admit I am being a bit of a stinker here, because it was explained to me a while ago what the story of the fig tree actually means.

And then forgot all about it.

But here's what I found browsing.

Why did Jesus curse the fig tree, when figs weren't in season?

Some light is shed on this passage by an article in Hard Sayings of the Bible by F. F. Bruce:

Was it not unreasonable to curse the tree for being fruitless when, as Mark expressly says, "it was not the season for figs"? The problem is most satisfactorily cleared up in a discussion called "The Barren Fig Tree" published many years ago by W. M. Christie, a Church of Scotland minister in Palestine under the British mandatory regime. He pointed out first the time of year at which the incident is said to have occurred (if, as is probable, Jesus was crucified on April 6th, A.D. 30, the incident occurred during the first days of April). "Now," wrote Christie, "the facts connected with the fig tree are these. Toward the end of March the leaves begin to appear, and in about a week the foliage coating is complete. Coincident with [this], and sometimes even before, there appears quite a crop of small knobs, not the real figs, but a kind of early forerunner. They grown to the size of green almonds, in which condition they are eaten by peasants and others when hungry. When they come to their own indefinite maturity they drop off." These precursors of the true fig are called taqsh in Palestinian Arabic. Their appearance is a harbinger of the fully formed appearance of the true fig some six weeks later. So, as Mark says, the time for figs had not yet come. But if the leaves appear without any taqsh, that is a sign that there will be no figs. Since Jesus found "nothing but leaves" - leaves without any taqsh- he knew that "it was an absolutely hopeless, fruitless fig tree" and said as much.

F. F. Bruce goes on to describe the cursing of the fig tree as a real-life parable that emphasized the spoken parable of the fig tree in Luke 13:6-9. It is also likely that Jesus, knowing in advance that his disciples would be surprised by the quick effect his curse had, used the fig tree to provoke their reaction and thus make the lesson about faith more memorable.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

What do faith and prayer have to do with killing a tree out of spite? Did Jesus pray to God to kill the tree? Did he have faith that god would allow the tree to be killed?

No matter which way you spin it, the tree was killed for something that wasn't its fault. To me, that's an act of evil.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Cool. By just using one story, Valka is already convinced of Jesus' power to smite fig trees. Even calling it an act of evil.

See what happened there my fellow misguided Christians? See what happens when you insist on including the supernatural into preaching Christianity.

Without it, Jesus just made clever use of his knowledge of nature. With it, he's an evil bastard smiting innocent Fig Trees.

 

[civ_king]

20 Now in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots.
21 And Peter, remembering, said to Him, “Rabbi, look! The fig tree which You cursed has withered away.”
22 So Jesus answered and said to them, “Have faith in God.
23 For assuredly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be removed and be cast into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that those things he says will be done, he will have whatever he says.
24 Therefore I say to you, whatever things you ask when you pray, believe that you receive them, and you will have them.

That's what is typically neglected

 

[Lone Wolf]

What do faith and prayer have to do with killing a tree out of spite?

"See, I managed to kill that tree with my words only. Impressive, ain't it? I managed to do that because I had faith. See, how powerful faith is. If you have enough faith, your prayers shall be answered".

Also, it appears that Jesus didn't consider killing a tree to be immoral.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

That's what is typically neglected

I included it, but what is your point exactly?

 

[DroopyTofu]

Why?
What impact does it have on the message/teachings of Christ?

It fullfills the prophesies in the Old Testament for one thing. It also proves that he really is the Son of God and not just another prophet or just "another good person". It had been prophesied for hundreds of years that he would rise on the third day.
The defining part of the Gospel is that he died on the cross and decended into hell. He took the punishment for everyone's sins even thought he had lived a perfect life. But he didn't just die and that was it. God, his father, resurected him.

Why did Jesus curse the fig tree, when figs weren't in season?

Some light is shed on this passage by an article in Hard Sayings of the Bible by F. F. Bruce:

<snip>

F. F. Bruce goes on to describe the cursing of the fig tree as a real-life parable that emphasized the spoken parable of the fig tree in Luke 13:6-9. It is also likely that Jesus, knowing in advance that his disciples would be surprised by the quick effect his curse had, used the fig tree to provoke their reaction and thus make the lesson about faith more memorable.

I'd also compare it to John 15:1-9.

Spoiler :

1"I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.

2"Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.

3"You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.

4"Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.

5"I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.

6"If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.

7"If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.

8"My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples.

9"Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love.

 

[Dumanios]

But how does a mountain go into the sea? Does it sprout legs? That would be fun to watch.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

It fullfills the prophesies in the Old Testament for one thing. It also proves that he really is the Son of God and not just another prophet or just "another good person". It had been prophesied for hundreds of years that he would rise on the third day.
The defining part of the Gospel is that he died on the cross and decended into hell. He took the punishment for everyone's sins even thought he had lived a perfect life. But he didn't just die and that was it. God, his father, resurected him.

I bolded a part there because that is actually the only thing I can see that has impact on the teachings of Christ. Being the son of God lends him credibility. Fulfilling prophecies, his resurrection etc really are irrelevant to the message. On to the issue of his credibility.

I can actually be very short about it. The message should sell itself. The teachings should sound true even if it was preached by a numbnuts like me. The one carrying the message in this one is of less significant than the message itself. And seeing that Christ himself also preaches to be humble, I bet he would agree with me.

Why can't he be just another good person? What makes the message have less value when a lowlife like me is promoting it?

(edit: I do appreciate the feedback DroopyTofu )

 

[_random_]

So Jesus killed a tree because it didn't have any ripe fruit out of season? That's just mean and spiteful. It's not a very loving thing to do.

If he wanted figs out of season, why didn't he just pray for them?

The fig tree was a common symbol of Israel, which, at the time, was baring no fruit. Making it so it could never bear fruit again foretold the coming of the new covenant. It might seem rather odd to us, but it would not have been lost on the Apostles or the readers.

 

[Bill3000]

It had been prophesied for hundreds of years that he would rise on the third day.

Er, no it wasn't; there's not one of the messianic prophecies. Besides, Jesus didn't fulfill all of the prophecies even under a Christian interpretation of them; if he did there would be no need for a second coming, considering that there would be world peace, all of mankind would be resurrected, there would be no more hunger, illness, or death, etc.

 

[MobBoss]

If you want, you may believe he was resurrected and was the son of God but all that stuff really isn't that important. Most important is to Love Thy Neighbour.

And I would disagree with your comment about it not being important. It is. Belief in Christ's divinity is what separates Christians from unitarians or other theists, and as such, its pretty important to the belief, if not the most important thing.

 

[Jabarto]

No matter how "nice" you are, if you don't believe in Jesus, you go to Hell

Serious question: Isn't that sentiment exclusive to Protestants? I seem to recall the Catholics being pretty big on good works being sufficient to get you to heaven.

 

[Mr. Dictator]

sounds like jesus was preaching The Secret

 

[Bill3000]

Serious question: Isn't that sentiment exclusive to Protestants? I seem to recall the Catholics being pretty big on good works being sufficient to get you to heaven.

No, that would the Jews. Faith being a necessary part of salvation (regardless if it is succificent or not) is universal to all Christians and is in the new testament. The non-universalists, anyway.