Profanity evolved

Hygro

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I think profanity has changed purposes. Whereas before it was to make a point louder, I think today it's to just pass valuable information to people in the in-group while turning off people in the out-group. In this case in-group means those comfortable with profanity so long as the message is on point and the out-group being those who care most about how something is dressed up, rather than what something is. The latter people run a lot of this society so to improve things, to outcompete them without them knowing what we're doing or thinking, we load our written speech with "bad" words.
 
You think the "out group" is more interested in how the message is portrayed then it's content?

If that as true, couldn't you flower up language which was detrimental to the elite and favour your own in-group? If it was as easy as that, why has nobody done it before?
 
I read somewhere that people who swear more are more honest. Too lazy too look for the link tho.
 
I swear all the time. I'm from army. it has been scientifically proven ( please don't ask for link at least this time) that you can hold hands in ice-cold water longer if you swear and scream.
 
You think the "out group" is more interested in how the message is portrayed then it's content?

If that as true, couldn't you flower up language which was detrimental to the elite and favour your own in-group? If it was as easy as that, why has nobody done it before?

I think people are doing it all the time in different ways. What I think is significant in this case is that you can reach a really, really wide cross section.
 
The whole "naughty words" thing is immature. I mean if you legitimately had a problem with the meaning ok, but you have people who will happily use the vanilla equivalents like darn, freaking, butthole, etc so they have no problem with the sentiment bob is a "freaking butthole", but ooo dont use the naughty words to say it.
 
My profanity has evolved.

I drop an f-bomb in just about every conversation, and when worked up generally in every sentence...but when I was in the navy the norm was to have one in every sentence pretty much all the time. When aggravated there might have been two or three in a sentence, frequently dropping in the interior of words of more than one syllable. Certain words like 'unbelievable' could be emphasized by double f-bombs wedged into a single word without anyone even seeming to notice. If the f-bomb counter didn't hit double digits in pretty much every breath a 'chewing out' would have been mistaken for a friendly chat.
 
it has been scientifically proven ( please don't ask for link at least this time) that you can hold hands in ice-cold water longer if you swear and scream.

Scientifically or not since the sample rate was quite low but Fry & Blessed tested it to be true for a tv program.
Personally my swearing or total lack of it depends on the company I'm with but in general I don't find it a big deal either way. The only part when (lack of) swearing (seriously) annoys me is in (US) tv - WTH can't tv chars talk like normal people do?
 
I swear in company of friends, but otherwise refrain from it. It becomes a fun game of trying to find new ways to express how you're feeling without just defaulting to your favorite bomb.
 
Gawker actually had an interesting article on profanity today. The crux of the article is that for a long time white people didn't really have the "blanket slur" like the n-word or the c-word, etc. White males have slurs levied against them, but they're regional and classist in nature, and thus don't really affect the white male of privilege. He argues that perhaps douchebag accomplishes that sentiment.


Trigger Warning: NSFW, language, obviously.
Here's the article
 
I swear all the time. I'm from army. it has been scientifically proven ( please don't ask for link at least this time) that you can hold hands in ice-cold water longer if you swear and scream.
You don't get to not be asked for links on this forum. If you don't recall where you read something, just say so. If it would violate the 'one-click' rule, just say so.

Scientifically or not since the sample rate was quite low but Fry & Blessed tested it to be true for a tv program.
Personally my swearing or total lack of it depends on the company I'm with but in general I don't find it a big deal either way. The only part when (lack of) swearing (seriously) annoys me is in (US) tv - WTH can't tv chars talk like normal people do?
They do on some channels. Last night I happened to watch part of a movie on the Space Channel (The Mist) and it had profanity-laced conversation in it.


Something interesting happened on the TrekBBS forum recently (large Star Trek forum). That forum uses Google ads to pay for itself, in addition to some premium memberships that some people pay to avoid ads. Google decided that there was far too much profanity and explicit sexuality on that forum - the areas that turn up in Google searches, anyway - and so a directive came down to the admins there to clean things up. So their 'babe' threads got deleted, a bunch of sexually-suggestive avatars had to be deleted, a whole batch of pictures (including some screen captures of various Star Trek episodes) were deleted, and some of the fanfic that contained profanity and/or sexually-explicit language was deleted. As far as I know, the authors weren't given any notice to save their work; it was just there one minute and gone the next.

You never know who's going to turn out to be the language police (full disclosure: while I think it's ridiculous to prohibit screen captures from such well-known TV shows, I'm not at all sorry to see the directive to tone down the language there; if only it could be site-wide, and not just the subforums specified).
 
Whereas before it was to make a point louder, I think today it's to just pass valuable information to people in the in-group while turning off people in the out-group. In this case in-group means those comfortable with profanity so long as the message is on point and the out-group being those who care most about how something is dressed up, rather than what something is. The latter people run a lot of this society so to improve things, to outcompete them without them knowing what we're doing or thinking, we load our written speech with "bad" words.

Why would this be a new thing? I can't imagine this wasn't also the case twenty years ago, or a hundred, or a thousand for that matter.

I think there has always been linguistic differences between different social groups. Peasants spoke differently than nobility, the working class had their own lingua. Afro-americans does too, etc. It's not just swearing, but just how people use language.
 
I think profanity has changed purposes. Whereas before it was to make a point louder, I think today it's to just pass valuable information to people in the in-group while turning off people in the out-group. In this case in-group means those comfortable with profanity so long as the message is on point and the out-group being those who care most about how something is dressed up, rather than what something is. The latter people run a lot of this society so to improve things, to outcompete them without them knowing what we're doing or thinking, we load our written speech with "bad" words.

I am pretty sure that any group which currently can be said to 'run a lot of this society' (meaning pretty much any current human society) is more likely to be encouraging profanity (unless it is running the analogous, and only epidermically opposite ploy) and any other form of dumbing down of expression. Cause it is a very cool way to keep running things, while still fooling some of the people that they are really hip and humanistic, so they don't care about those nasty ways of forming a sentence in a correct and interesting manner, grammatically as well as stylistically.

So i don't agree with your OP. If anything the group in power is perfectly happy with creating and maintaining any divisive situation, including diversionary language and ghetto-ised culture and polemics against it. Divide et Impera as always.
 
Anger (and profanity) is like dirty laundry - everyone has some, but it doesn't mean you have to show it.

Which leads to - never get angry, you will never have to swear.
 
I am pretty sure that any group which currently can be said to 'run a lot of this society' (meaning pretty much any current human society) is more likely to be encouraging profanity (unless it is running the analogous, and only epidermically opposite ploy) and any other form of dumbing down of expression.
Kyriakos - I think you just stepped into the exact trap suggested by the OP. That is, you intermingle style and content like there was no difference between them.
But content makes quality, not style.
I think the underlying problem is that there are ideals, which direct style, and there is the actual practice, the reality of the usage of the style.

The extremes of that ideal:
- In the left corner: Formal neutral langugage used to make nuanced and sophisticated arguments, as academic discousre
- In the right corner: Poor degenerates who blurt out unreflected primitive stuff, heavy use of dirty language

The extremes of its actual practice as I see it suggested by the OP:
- In the left corner: supposedly more 'sophisticated' style takes place in social environment were people are more formal, which means least honest, less direct, more scheming and distracting - so not actually better in its content, but yeah, I guess more convoluted. That is one way to be sophisticated. It is also one to be hollow in what you say and regarding the actual content - dumbed-down

- On the right corner: Dirty language as a marker of authenticity and honesty, because both coincides with motives you actually care to openly admit (like improving society as said in the OP) -> direct, intellectual honest and content-wise more valuable (though possibly less 'sophisticated' regarding its presentation)

Now regarding some criticism of the OP: I am troubled with the intentionalist theme of the OP. But I do see it happening at least to some extend.
To illustrate: If we for instance look at the Daily Show or Tonight with John Oliver, their content is usually of higher quality than the one of pundits who use no bad language, and even though it is a comedy show I think also often more reflected upon. But see I wouldn't want to say that they use bad language to be off-limits to those circles they oppose. Rather, that they just bad language because it is part of their theme of more or less saying whatever they want. Instead of just masquerading what they really are about by formal sophisticated narrations. And Of only acknowledging a view as legit when they actually think it is. Instead of being 'balanced" in a way that they just pay tribute to different sides so to shield themselves from exposing themselves to attacks.
 
Is this how profanity works in the adult world? Because it sure doesn't seem to work that way as a teen. There is no us vs. them situation involving profanity, it is pretty much ingrained into being a teenager. The times people use profanity vary from person to person, but it is not some kind of code.

I disagree that profanity makes for honest direct intellectual conversation though. What does that extra f bomb add? Profanity has its uses, but once it becomes over saturated then its meaning is gone, never to return, so moderation has to be used.
 
@Terx

^Content to a very significant degree can be deemed as distinct from 'style'. However i see no benefit in making an attempt to keep on reading something written as drool, with the expectation that it may contain an interesting idea somewhere in the drool.

I am, furthermore (but that is a more personal position, not entirely part of the scope of this topic) of the view that there is zero benefit to using profanity in aiming to express any interesting idea. If you have an example where that - in your view - happened, you can post it. I recall once going through a uni course on Bataille's literature, which may be said to be partly involved with such a sentiment.
 
I don't know.

What's the purpose of profanity?

And doesn't the more you use it undermine that purpose?

Profanity doesn't offend me. I just can't be bothered with it most of the time.
 
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