Project SYNTHESIS

[Leoreth]

Leoreth- Because the Arabs traditionally did not just wipe out all local religions. The new UP would still spread around Islam and auto build Islamic buildings, but it wouldn't kill off all the other religions.

The Turk, I like your suggestion but once I improve the inquisitor AI, I don't see how the Arab UP would be powerful at all.

But most other religions get replaced during Arab rule. In gameplay terms an immediate removal doesn't make that much of a difference to a slower decline.

But if you get the inquisitors working that might not be necessary anymore.

On another note, Shia Islam makes the Arab Shrines UHV hilariously easy, leaving you only to build the Shia and Sunni shrines as well as conquering Shiraz. A human can easily get 6 shrines with just two prophets and conquering. This needs to be revised.

I for my part intend to replace that goal anyway.

 

[AdrienIer]

This goal was always an easy one to compensate for the (almost) impossible conquest one. To stay in the same spirit as Rhye's one, 4 shrines should be good : Sunni, Shia, Zoroastre and an other one which can be indian or European (if Catholicism is founded in Jerusalem, Constantinople or Cartago). And there is also the Orthodox one, so maybe 5 shrines would be doable as well.

 

[Danwood]

Sir Linkman, you made my day with this mod (well, actually my night, and not just one i fear...)


Would be awesome to include also the BUG mod, better AI mod (or directly the Better BUG AI modpack), Blue marble terrain... but i guess they are not mergeable with Ryhe right? shame


Awesome work btw, i really needed these mods with Rhye's !!

 

[Danwood]

PS: the game i'm playing now is the most funny i've ever played in Civ4 with Ryhe's mod

 

[Leoreth]

Would be awesome to include also the BUG mod, better AI mod (or directly the Better BUG AI modpack), Blue marble terrain... but i guess they are not mergeable with Ryhe right? shame

I'm quite positive they are.

 

[Linkman226]

But most other religions get replaced during Arab rule. In gameplay terms an immediate removal doesn't make that much of a difference to a slower decline.

But if you get the inquisitors working that might not be necessary anymore.


I for my part intend to replace that goal anyway.

I think I'll rely on inquisitors.

And I'll probably use your goal, whatever you come up with.

This goal was always an easy one to compensate for the (almost) impossible conquest one. To stay in the same spirit as Rhye's one, 4 shrines should be good : Sunni, Shia, Zoroastre and an other one which can be indian or European (if Catholicism is founded in Jerusalem, Constantinople or Cartago). And there is also the Orthodox one, so maybe 5 shrines would be doable as well.

I really don't like it when the Arabs go that far in India, and they'll be forced to conquer Rome in 600 AD to achieve that UHV. I'd prefer a different UHV altogether.

Sir Linkman, you made my day with this mod (well, actually my night, and not just one i fear...)


Would be awesome to include also the BUG mod, better AI mod (or directly the Better BUG AI modpack), Blue marble terrain... but i guess they are not mergeable with Ryhe right? shame


Awesome work btw, i really needed these mods with Rhye's !!

PS: the game i'm playing now is the most funny i've ever played in Civ4 with Ryhe's mod

Glad to hear you like the mod

None of those mods would be impossible to merge into RFC. However better AI is not necessary- all relevant features of it already are in and those that are not aren't necessary because of the hardcoding of the AI in RFC.

Blue Marble should be easy enough, since it's just art.

From what I know of the way BUG does XML, it will certainly be tough to merge in. But hopefully I'll get it done day.

 

[Danwood]

I think I'll rely on inquisitors.

And I'll probably use your goal, whatever you come up with.



I really don't like it when the Arabs go that far in India, and they'll be forced to conquer Rome in 600 AD to achieve that UHV. I'd prefer a different UHV altogether.





Glad to hear you like the mod

None of those mods would be impossible to merge into RFC. However better AI is not necessary- all relevant features of it already are in and those that are not aren't necessary because of the coexisting of the AI in RFC.

Blue Marble should be easy enough, since it's just art.

From what I know of the way BUG does XML, it will certainly be tough to merge in. But hopefully I'll get it done day.

You have already made an awesome work with what you done so far, and i'm playing civ exactly as i wished according to the "if only feeling" you mentioned. But merging Blue Marble terrain and BUG mod would simply totally ruin my real life

 

[Linkman226]

Not even CivAnon will be able to handle this mod once I'm done!

 

[Danwood]

Not even CivAnon will be able to handle this mod once I'm done!

OMG that's a website dedicated to myself

 

[Danwood]

Another nice mod to include would be "Event with images"

 

[J. pride]

My point in (3) is that Antakya is still a rather well known Turkish city today.

And no, the stone under Ctesiphon is there on purpose. Zoroastrianism in that city also barely makes sense because it gets removed when it flips to Arabia anyway.

3) And Cologne is a rather well know city in Germany; whats ur point, Antakya as we know it today is not even the most important city in South Eastern Turkey; having it is like having Orleans at the expense of Paris or Turin at the expense of Venice. It doesnt seem right.

The stone is rather annoying u should atleast move it for 600 ad map.

I like The Turk's setup, personally, with respects to city placement. But what Leoreth brought up is a good point, and adding Buddhism to Central Asia is bad in the (fairly common) event that the Arabs don't get there.

Guys, Can we please keep it simple; remember this is only about replacing Antioch for Damascus; what purpose does it serve to have both of them besides making both cities absolutely useless. This is not India or China where there are enough resources to allow both cities (neither should there be). Lets keep it simple and maintain historicity but not on the expense of gameplay. In this case it is not even historical to have Antioch; I can give plenty of evidence suggesting that Antioch lost all of its importance after the Arab conquests; it was a mere border zone between the Arabs and the Byzantines; historically even the river Orantes silted up near the city so the population had to move; if u want i can provide more evidence but I dont think we need to waste more time on this?

I'm definitely rethinking the Arab UP. Something like "The Power of the Jiziya" or along those lines

Well I think the current Arabian UP is fine, in fact I think its great, but instead of wiping out all religions it conquers, it should instead have the religion disappear after a while. Also please keep Orthodox Christianity high in Egypt and the Levant, it really shouldn't disappear.

The Turk, I like your suggestion but once I improve the inquisitor AI, I don't see how the Arab UP would be powerful at all.

Ok, this is a bit ridiculous. Your want to make a hard Arabia almost unplayable. You do realize that the Arabs have 30-40 turns before the Egyptian/Seljuk spawn. The Ai or even Human player would have to spend considerable amount of building persecuter units. Instead of this, u can make better UHVs for the Arabs in this timeperiod instead of building a dozen persecuter units. And anyways as far as I know Islam became the dominant religion of the Middle East by the Abbasid spawn and by 1000 ad Islam was by far the dominant religion unless you have historical evidence pointing otherwise. Also if u are making the Arabs use persecuter units to take out other religions than I think it is only fair that you add Islam to all cities in Spain, Southern France, Sicily, Southern Italy, Greece (Crete specifically) and Eastarn Europe (all the Turkic Khanates that had Islam as their state religion). Does one really need to mess gameplay up just to slow the spread of a relgion. I would also like to point out that Christianity and the Protestant Reformation did not spread instantaneously either; it is done this way for gameplay sake and to keep historicity in the long run; why should we mess this up?

But most other religions get replaced during Arab rule. In gameplay terms an immediate removal doesn't make that much of a difference to a slower decline.

But if you get the inquisitors working that might not be necessary anymore.


I for my part intend to replace that goal anyway.

Exactly, for the UHV's I have a few ideas to which u can replace:

-Make Baghdad the most Populous and Productive (Cultured also but im not sure thats possible) city in the world by 1000 ad.
-Be the most advanced civilization in the world in 1000 ad (Islamic Golden Age).
-Conquer Constantinople by x date (to represent the First and Second Seige of Constantinope which were an utter disaster for the Ummayads and led to thousands of losses and their eventual downfall.

 

[The Turk]

Why would adding both Damascus and Antioch make them useless? I disagree completely, with a couple added resources and Ikonion being moved to the West, I don't see any problem whatsoever with the placement.

 

[J. pride]

Why would adding both Damascus and Antioch make them useless? I disagree completely, with a couple added resources and Ikonion being moved to the West, I don't see any problem whatsoever with the placement.

Give me one good reason why it should be added:
-Historically it went into decline after 600 ad and was completely obliterated in 1200 ad.
-It is not even one of the largest cities in Southern Turkey much rather the Greater Syria. Correct me if im wrong but Antioch was in the Vilayat of Adana or the Vilayat of Aleppo; it wasnt significant enough to have its own Vilayat or province.
-If you want another city in Turkey why not some important city like Sivas or Ankara; and I dont really think turkey needs another city 3 is enough?

 

[The Turk]

One (+several more) good reason why Antioch should be kept:

1. It holds one of the patriarchates of Eastern Christianity

2. Having only one city in the Levant would be dumb, therefore having another one with an added fish resource nearby makes sense.

3. It can be absorbed by the Ottomans when they spawn.

On the topic of Damascus though, it should become the capital of the Arab world, not Cairo (which never made sense to me) or Baghdad. Or alternatively you could have it 50-50 Cairo or Baghdad, although Baghdad was not created until 760 something...

 

[Leoreth]

Why would adding both Damascus and Antioch make them useless? I disagree completely, with a couple added resources and Ikonion being moved to the West, I don't see any problem whatsoever with the placement.

You should always consider that resources are also of global value, and are not mainly ways to randomly improve the output of certain city sites. Also, the usual player doesn't want tight city packing (it's quite annoying unless you're obsessed about having every historical city), and you can't even avoid that when you flip them.

I also don't understand what's so "annoying" about the stone underneath Baghdad?

 

[Linkman226]

Leoreth, what about increasing plot yield a la the Silk Road?

 

[Leoreth]

Where? In the Levant? I can't see why it warrants such a treatment, it's not a particularly fertile area.

 

[Linkman226]

And Europe isn't as big as it is in RFC, but its historical role warrants more room. The Levant certainly was an important area throughout most history.

Also the Silk Route isn't that fertile either.

I'm asking you because generally you're better acquainted with the issues with modding certain features, and you certainly are more adept in history than I.

 

[CHEESE!]

Problem: my game crashes every time I play at the specific year 1170 AD. Is there any scripted event at that date that causes me to crash?

 

[Leoreth]

And Europe isn't as big as it is in RFC, but its historical role warrants more room. The Levant certainly was an important area throughout most history.

Also the Silk Route isn't that fertile either.

I'm asking you because generally you're better acquainted with the issues with modding certain features, and you certainly are more adept in history than I.

Well I don't think I've any more authority than you on that issue, but the Levant itself wasn't that valuable. Europe has more room because the civs that live there are important (at least in the Eurocentric world of Civ), while Turkey or Arabia get along anyway. The value of the Levant comes from the trade that passed through it (during the MA), and that's what the silk route is for.

On the other hand, the Taklamakan cities only got improved as a way to represent the other cities there and give the area some value. That's nothing compared to forcing a tightly packed city placement just because.