Pros and Cons of EU membership

[Leoreth]

Neither is Switzerland, Leoreth.

Oh, I thought it should be divided regardless of its membership status Nevermind.

 

[Racsoviale]

What about Norway? And Hungary, come to think of it.

Norway don't act stupid everytime someone mentions the EU, that makes them so much better than Denmark and Great Britain who are in the damn thing and Hungary should be reintegrated with the Hapsburgs anyway.

And having a huge phallus on your map is important, especially if it's bigger than the american.

 

[Winner]

Britain should leave the EU. Pre-Eu Britian had incredibly strong trading links with her Dominions and the U.S., however when they joined the EU they naturally became more continent based and the, shall we say former colonial contacts, began to fall lower and lower in the spectrum.

Which would have occurred anyway.

Newsflash: your empire is gone, get over it, Brits.

NAFTA should be enlarged into a North Atlantic Trading Agreement by adding Britain and Iceland. Iceland because they and Canada have two of the most interconnected economies that nobody ever talks about, for obvious reasons (Its Canada!). I'm sure that NAFTA easily encompass all the things that Britain wants out of the EU and leave out all the EU centralization and federalization crap.

That would make no economic sense whatsoever. Europe is more important to Britain trade-wise that North America. Easy access to North American markets can be better secured *through* the EU, due to the EU's better negotiating position.

Britain only wanted a "place at the table", but is a table that is dominated by Germany and France throwing food at each other, Greece stuffing food in their pockets, Spain Italy and Ireland's credit cards bouncing, and Benalux countries whining over paying the tab for the eastern states a table they really want a seat at?

Is it time for inane analogies already? Allrighty then, Britain is this annoying member of a club who's not paying its full membership fee but constantly whines about getting its money back. Of course it wants to get all the benefits the membership in the club entails, but will never does much for the other members in return. Every time there is a disagreement, it runs crying to daddy who lives overseas. It is trying to smuggle in people who don't belong in the club. When it's asked to do what has been agreed and all other members have already done it, it throws a tantrum. It is the only member of the club that has managed to offend all the others by lecturing them on issues in which it has failed miserably itself. It wants others to help members who are in financial trouble because they own it money, but won't lift a finger to help them itself.

etc. etc. etc.

 

[Virote_Considon]

NAFTA should be enlarged into a North Atlantic Trading Agreement by adding Britain and Iceland.

No thanks. I wouldn't want the USA raping Britain's economy like it does to Canada's and Mexico's. We'll stick with the EU, ta!

 

[Oruc]

Politics is power. International relations is the balance of power. I'd like the balance to be weighted more towards Britain than away from it. That is only achieveable under the EU.

I already said I don't care about that, I don't care about power.

Besides, we don't have our Empire anymore, and most of the remnants in the Commonwealth hate us and would sooner do us harm than help integrate with us if we left the EU.

Us not having our empire is a good thing, Why do you want to tie us to a new one.

Yep, and we fought all our rivals down to the last Prussian to get there

What the hell is this?

 

[Terxpahseyton]

No thanks. I wouldn't want the USA raping Britain's economy like it does to Canada's and Mexico's. We'll stick with the EU, ta!

What exactly do you mean by that? I got a vague idea, but could you be more specific?

 

[luiz]

What exactly do you mean by that? I got a vague idea, but could you be more specific?

He probably means nothing because he doesn't know what he's talking about. Trade with the US made Canada one of the world's richest nations.

And ever since NAFTA Mexico went from being a complete backwater to one of the richest nations in Latin America (contrary to popular belief, Mexico, isn't poor).

 

[sophie]

He probably means nothing because he doesn't know what he's talking about. Trade with the US made Canada one of the world's richest nations.

And ever since NAFTA Mexico went from being a complete backwater to one of the richest nations in Latin America (contrary to popular belief, Mexico, isn't poor).

To be fair you can't blame him, considering what popular response to NAFTA was in Mexico in the immediate aftermath of its passing. And it was a pretty bad deal for them at the start (although that had more to do with unpinning the peso than NAFTA). Things are a lot better now, but it's hard to break popular knowledge.

 

[Virote_Considon]

I already said I don't care about that, I don't care about power.

Well you should, because power is what allows you to do things.

Us not having our empire is a good thing, Why do you want to tie us to a new one.

Better living standards, direct access to more resources (with close geographic proximity to boot!), Romanticism and patriotism...

What the hell is this?

It's how we got our position as #1 empire in the first place, a lot of our soldiers weren't even British. A lot weren't even fighting for Britain per say, they were fighting for states allied to us.

What exactly do you mean by that? I got a vague idea, but could you be more specific?

Basically, it's geared up to be more favourable to the US. In NAFTA, the Us kinda has Germany's dominant position, but magnified even further.

He probably means nothing because he doesn't know what he's talking about. Trade with the US made Canada one of the world's richest nations.

Canada was relatively about as rich before NAFTA.

And ever since NAFTA Mexico went from being a complete backwater to one of the richest nations in Latin America (contrary to popular belief, Mexico, isn't poor).

I'm pretty sure it never really was poor. But nor is it particularly some kind of bastion of stability.

Either way, it's never a good idea to open your economy up to such a large power to such an extent - it's what the British Empire was built on, after all.

 

[del62]

Is it time for inane analogies already? Allrighty then, Britain is this annoying member of a club who's not paying its full membership fee but constantly whines about getting its money back. Of course it wants to get all the benefits the membership in the club entails, but will never does much for the other members in return. Every time there is a disagreement, it runs crying to daddy who lives overseas. It is trying to smuggle in people who don't belong in the club. When it's asked to do what has been agreed and all other members have already done it, it throws a tantrum. It is the only member of the club that has managed to offend all the others by lecturing them on issues in which it has failed miserably itself. It wants others to help members who are in financial trouble because they own it money, but won't lift a finger to help them itself.

etc. etc. etc.

2010 - UK second largest net contributor to EU, behind Germany,

Just because UK did not join the most ill thought out and disastorous monetary union the world has ever known then it does not bail out the euro, this is for the countires that think the euro was a good idea. (Though through IMF UK does help in bailouts).

 

[Winner]

Uhm...

The size of member states' payments to the EU budget is broadly dependent on the size of their economy.

This is because the largest component of each country's contribution is a flat payment equivalent to a fixed proportion of its gross national income (GNI) - 0.59% in 2007.

There are some variations however. Thanks to its rebate, the UK pays a smaller proportion of its GNI than other countries.

Gross payments from each country differ, obviously, because of the large disparities in the size of the 27 countries' economies.

For example, Spain and Denmark both pay 0.96% of their gross national income into the budget, but as Spain has a larger economy its actual contribution amounts to 9.8bn euros, compared to Denmark's 2.2bn euros.

Greece pays the biggest proportion of its national income to the EU, but in terms of total payments it is eighth on the list.

BBC

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Basically, it's geared up to be more favourable to the US. In NAFTA, the Us kinda has Germany's dominant position, but magnified even further.

I take that as "No, I won't be more specific"

 

[del62]

Uhm...

And net contribution

 

[Winner]

The point is, the UK is paying the least relative to its gross national income, yet it somehow still feels "cheated".

 

[del62]

No it is not paying the least relative to its gross national incoming (in a net sense anyway), the UK pays more net than france in relation to its GNI.

This might help, it shows that while France pays a lot of money, it gets a lot back

 

[Leoreth]

I wonder why we don't see Germany cry twice as much as the UK does. I agree though that France is enjoying quite a favorable situation here at the moment.

 

[Virote_Considon]

Just because UK did not join the most ill thought out and disastorous monetary union the world has ever known

Well, why would we join the Latin currency union? We weren't Catholic, even (especially!) in the 18th Century!

I wonder why we don't see Germany cry twice as much as the UK does. I agree though that France is enjoying quite a favorable situation here at the moment.

Good point. The EU now needs Britain more than ever to suck it to France. It should be the Patriotic duty of at least every Englishman to support the EU to the fullest extent of our ability to influence France paying more and getting less. *patriotic tear anf flag-wave. Possibly an eagle because y'know, Hollywood*

 

[Leoreth]

As I said, Germany and France both would probably be happy to have a partner other than the other (or at least the possibility of such an other partner as a negotiation point), and the UK is the only other member country that carries enough weight to fill that position. The problem is, this is currently completely off the table because of the schizophrenic and obstructive attitude the UK has towards the EU at the moment. It could enjoy a considerably increased amount of power in the EU, it just chooses not to.

 

[Oruc]

Well you should, because power is what allows you to do things.

Things huh? These reasons just keep piling up! I'll put "things" next to "power" in the list

Better living standards, direct access to more resources (with close geographic proximity to boot!), Romanticism and patriotism...

Better living standards? I dont know where you live but it's steadily getting worse here. In what way will you and I have more direct access to resources? (How will they move Britain closer to Europe?)
Romanticism? gee it's nothing! You can be patriotic right now if that'll make you happy.
Why am I supposed to be taking your word for this, you haven't actually backed it up with anything.

It's how we got our position as #1 empire in the first place, a lot of our soldiers weren't even British. A lot weren't even fighting for Britain per say, they were fighting for states allied to us.

Christ now you mock our dead, no British person ever fought for the empire ever died away from home? where'd all this so called patriotism go