Questions about Judaism

[greekguy]

Greekguy, great quote of mr.Twain in your sig.
You should change font to large.

thanks, i've had that quote in my sig for just about every single day i've been a member of CFC. it seems to apply to a lot of people- on the internet and in RL.

 

[Winterfell]

Winterfell
First of all: Le-hitra'ot from Lir'ot.
And seriously, being Jewish is not really a choice but a fact.
Whilst being Hindu, Muslim, Christian, etc. is ONLY a matter of choice.
Jew is not a "faith" (it includes that too but is not limited by it).
Jew is also a nation - biologically too.
And every biological Jew has an inheritance in the Jewish "way of life" - the Torah.
The biggest problem in such cases is that you had no possibility to grasp the beauty of it - which is obvious.
Where are you from btw?
And you are wrong - religion is not only between a person and God - it's also between person and another person!
And that's where I can see you have a little knowledge about Judaism.
But it's never too late to start again from the beginning.
There's nothing to be ashamed of - a baal-tshuva is always welcomed and helped.
Think for yourself - are you gonna get rid of your rightful inheritance?

Judaism is both religion and an ethnic group.
While I can not, and do not deny my bloodline and the fact I am a jew ethnically, I do not believe in Judaism. And whatever you say or believe can't change that. So I choose, or rather chose not be a religious jew. It is my choice. And as a biological human being my inheritance is all the religions in the world and every holy scripture - not just the Torah. Yes, it has some very wise ideas in it, and is very beatiful and appreciated by me - but so are the buddhist vedas, the christian new testament, Lau Tzu's Taoism and so forth. And believe me - I had possibilities to grasp the torah's uniqeness - i've learned about it a lot. I just dont see it as the obly holy book or the greatest book. And that is my choice.
I was born in Israel, as were my parents. My grandparents came from romania, france and turkey.
I know religion is also between man to man and not only man to god - I do have knowledge in Judaism - what I meant was that every person has the right to choose his system of belief without a relation to his ethnicity.

I am not gonna get rid of my so called inheritance. I am going to absorb the parts I believe in and consider wise and worthy, as well as I am going to absorb ideas and ways of thought from other religions/systems of belief/philosophies.

 

[civ2]

greekguy
Shalom!

Winterfell
Since you said you have some knowledge in Judaism - I'd like to remind you of two people: Yitro (Moses' wife's father) and Elisha ben Avuya (Acher).
The first one was a (idolatrous) priest of Midian but later he converted to Judaism "because I found all other faiths and religions false". His children's children were amongst the greatest wise men in Israel.
Elisha ben Avuya was a great scolar but later he misunderstood several events he saw and he became "irreligious". Acher means "the other" since only one student didn't leave him and continued studying from him. When the student was asked how can he learn Torah from such a man he answered "It's like eating a pomegranate - you throw out the peels and eat the inside" meaning he ignored his teacher's "irreligiousity" and absorbed his great wisdom.
Now we can see that even a non-Jew can understand that "all is false except for Torah" and that being wise is not the only key to "real religion".
Acher didn't become irreligious BECAUSE of his vast knowledge - he became such IN SPITE of it - otherwise his student would become irreligious too but that was not the case.
The only way to God is through your heart - of course with a good help of your brain - but you can't rely ONLY on your (definitely limited) mind.

 

[Ramius75]

Hi, im atheist but also got some questions regarding Jesus christ.

So what the Judasim thinking of this man ? Is he considered Son of God by the Jews ?? What did the Jews think of the Sanhedrin who decided to cruxify Jesus ?? Are they in hell or heaven for "upholding" the Torah ?

Thanks.

 

[civ2]

Ramius75
0. It's a BIIIIG question whether he existed at all.
1. Nothing good.
2. Definitely not (in the way Christians do). On the other hand every Jew (and basically every human) is "a son of God" since humans have souls.
3. He wasn't killed by Jews - Jews would never use this way of penalty - it was of Roman origin. If he was punished by Jews he would be stoned for desacrating God's Name.
4. Can't understand your question.

 

[Ramius75]

Ramius75
0. It's a BIIIIG question whether he existed at all.
1. Nothing good.
2. Definitely not (in the way Christians do). On the other hand every Jew (and basically every human) is "a son of God" since humans have souls.
3. He wasn't killed by Jews - Jews would never use this way of penalty - it was of Roman origin. If he was punished by Jews he would be stoned for desacrating God's Name.
4. Can't understand your question.

1. I see, just curious about this part actually. So is there a conflict between Judaism and Chrisitianity (both Catholic and Protestant)?

3. But according the new testemant, E.g. "Passion of Christ" the Jews are the one responsible but not the Roman, they are merely the one carrying it out.

4. Not a question really... So the jews will think there is nothing wrong with the Death of Jesus and there is nothing "special" about it ?? he is just a normal man ?

 

[civ2]

Ramius75
1. I mean if you look how many tragedies were caused by (mostly early) Christianity - Inquisition, massacres of Indians etc.
2. Why did you miss this point?
3. There never was such penalty in the Jewish Law - the only possible death penalties were:
Stoning; beheading; strengling(spelling?); burning from the inside by hot metal.
BUT!
Any death sentense was executed to a person after he was made unconscious by wine - so he wasn't really suffering. The penalty was not to bring suffer but to bring death itself.
(Compare to Inquisition's tortures like burning alive. )
On the other hand, Romans killed lots of people exactly in that painful and torturous way.
4. Only a new reason for anti-semitism...

 

[Ramius75]

Ramius75
1. I mean if you look how many tragedies were caused by (mostly early) Christianity - Inquisition, massacres of Indians etc.
2. Why did you miss this point?
3. There never was such penalty in the Jewish Law - the only possible death penalties were:
Stoning; beheading; strengling(spelling?); burning from the inside by hot metal.
BUT!
Any death sentense was executed to a person after he was made unconscious by wine - so he wasn't really suffering. The penalty was not to bring suffer but to bring death itself.
(Compare to Inquisition's tortures like burning alive. )
On the other hand, Romans killed lots of people exactly in that painful and torturous way.
4. Only a new reason for anti-semitism...

1. I think its only done in the name of religion, But carry out by humans.
2. coz i agreed and understood.
3. Ok, understood
4. This i agreed. is there a movement for reconciliation movement inthe jewish state ?? regarding both attitude toward the Christian and Moslem ??

 

[Winterfell]

greekguy
Shalom!

Winterfell
Since you said you have some knowledge in Judaism - I'd like to remind you of two people: Yitro (Moses' wife's father) and Elisha ben Avuya (Acher).
The first one was a (idolatrous) priest of Midian but later he converted to Judaism "because I found all other faiths and religions false". His children's children were amongst the greatest wise men in Israel.
Elisha ben Avuya was a great scolar but later he misunderstood several events he saw and he became "irreligious". Acher means "the other" since only one student didn't leave him and continued studying from him. When the student was asked how can he learn Torah from such a man he answered "It's like eating a pomegranate - you throw out the peels and eat the inside" meaning he ignored his teacher's "irreligiousity" and absorbed his great wisdom.
Now we can see that even a non-Jew can understand that "all is false except for Torah" and that being wise is not the only key to "real religion".
Acher didn't become irreligious BECAUSE of his vast knowledge - he became such IN SPITE of it - otherwise his student would become irreligious too but that was not the case.
The only way to God is through your heart - of course with a good help of your brain - but you can't rely ONLY on your (definitely limited) mind.

So yitro supposedly found that all religion besides judaism were false. What makes him correct? And what abuot the many religions that came hundreds of years after his death?
I dont even belive there is a one true religion.
Now with the second story you gave a really good argument! "It's like eating a pomegranate - you throw out the peels and eat the inside" - I take the things I find wise in the bible(and any other philosophy/religion) while ignoring the religious consequences.
And yep, the only way to a deity is through my heart with a good help of my brain. And I found it already.

 

[civ2]

Ramius75
1-3.
4.
Could you explain you question, please.

Winterfell
Would mind specifying what you found "wise and useful" in Torah, please.
I mean it.

 

[silver 2039]

Why is there Kosher? What is its purposes?

 

[civ2]

silver 2039
A good question.
(I mean this point is usually misunderstood.)
Kosher has nothing to do with hygiene or healthy food.
It IS healthy but it's not the reason.
Cows and chickens can cause illnesses too.
This law is 100% of spiritual origin - with some physical pluses too.
There are two basic answers to the reason of kosher.
1. It was given to Jews for some specific spiritual uplift (or whatever).
2. This and similar "strange" laws were given just because God knows better than we.
Some of the Laws of Torah may "have sense" while others may not.
But the reason for ALL of them is God Will - which makes it clear that we are able to understand only a part of the true reason of a law.
One thing IS clear - whatever God gives us is definitely good FOR US.

 

[Winterfell]

Ramius75
1-3.
4.
Could you explain you question, please.

Winterfell
Would mind specifying what you found "wise and useful" in Torah, please.
I mean it.

I am talking about the entire bible, not only the first five books.
Books I find interesting:
Kohelet, I'ov and Irmiah for an example.

 

[Winterfell]

Why is there Kosher? What is its purposes?

Some of the kosher laws were intially out of moral issues - such as the one which frobids the cooking of a lamb in his mother's milk. Over time people grew stupid and decided that it means it is forbidden to eat dairy products with any kind of meat(including chicken). Go figure. Traditions I guess.

 

[civ2]

Winterfell
Ok, TaNaCh.
You still didn't specify any examples of what do you mean by wise.
Those books are basically about destruction and the problems of Jewish history - what so special for you in them?
Are you telling me you're a hardcore pessimist???
That's not a good attitude for a Jew.

 

[Winterfell]

Winterfell
Ok, TaNaCh.
You still didn't specify any examples of what do you mean by wise.
Those books are basically about destruction and the problems of Jewish history - what so special for you in them?
Are you telling me you're a hardcore pessimist???
That's not a good attitude for a Jew.

Destruction is not what they are about at all.
Kohelet is about the struggle of man to find a meaning to his life.
I'ov is about reamining a believet through times of depression and hreat sufferings.
I'rmiah is about unheard prophets and the moral decline of society.

 

[civ2]

Some of the kosher laws were intially out of moral issues - such as the one which frobids the cooking of a lamb in his mother's milk. Over time people grew stupid and decided that it means it is forbidden to eat dairy products with any kind of meat(including chicken). Go figure. Traditions I guess.

Please don't tell things you don't know for sure - you can lead to even bigger misunderstandings.
Chicken is forbidden to be eaten with milk simply because people can make a mistake WHAT was eaten.
(Can you always find out what your meal was from? And if you see somebody else eating?)
This is an "addition" made by sages to protect the original law from misunderstandings.
And if you want a moral example of kosher - why not mention "shchita" - the most painless way to kill an animal.
The animal's throat is being cut by a VERY sharp knife and it looses consciousness faster than feels anything.
(Compare to electric shocks or chopping its head off. )

 

[civ2]

Winterfell
So if you find this wise - what's then "unwise"???
You should be "Judaisitic" if you find such books wise.
What's "wrong" with you???

 

[Winterfell]

Winterfell
So if you find this wise - what's then "unwise"???
You should be "Judaisitic" if you find such books wise.
What's "wrong" with you???

I lack a very basic thing needed to be "judaistic"as you say - a belief that everything a god said shoud be blindly followed. I think self-questioning is an integral part of a true healthy belief system.

 

[aneeshm]

How do you reconcile the slaughter of the priests of Baal with the commandment "Thou shalt not murder" ?