wonderpest
Chieftain
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That was it, thanks!
Quick Answers / 'Newbie' Questions
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PsychopathicWarmonger
Warlord
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- Dec 11, 2016
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Is the use of lighthouses in cities sandwiched between both ocean coast and fresh-water lakes considered an exploit?
I've noticed that whilst lighthouses cannot be built on a fresh-water lake, you can build one if an ocean tile is adjacent, regardless of whether or not a fresh-water lake is present also. I've been using this for a while to build some cities where there are no food sources, to create a 3F tile on each of the lake tiles.
I'm not aware if the AI does this, is it a common trick?
I've noticed that whilst lighthouses cannot be built on a fresh-water lake, you can build one if an ocean tile is adjacent, regardless of whether or not a fresh-water lake is present also. I've been using this for a while to build some cities where there are no food sources, to create a 3F tile on each of the lake tiles.
I'm not aware if the AI does this, is it a common trick?
Mustakrakish
Deity
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- Sep 2, 2009
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- 2,525
Just rediscovered civ4 after 7 years. Damn it's good, can't believe I tried playing those lackluster V and VI all that time while civ4 existed. Anyway as I'm so rusty I was wondering about something. Is there some kind of rundown of how economy works? Not looking for guides to cottage economies or whatnot, but a simple explanation how to money basically. There seems to be stuff I'm not seeing / not understanding. For example I see a city producing 12 gold. I can trace where it comes from, 8 from palace, 3 from tiles and 1 from trade routes. As my science output is 100%, all of that goes to science, hence 12 science per turn. But where does the actual money come from? If with that in mind I say have plus 2 gold per turn? Or is it that I do get those 12 in gold as well, just that 100% of it is also converted to science, but if I lower the percentage by 20% I get 20% extra of that 12 base? I'm confused.
Also maintenance. I plop a city on another continent while getting +9 gold per turn and it becomes -12 per turn. Okay intercontinental maintenance is bad, but when I enter the city it states that the maintenance is 8gpt?? Or is it that by my cities count increasing, every cities maintenance grew by just enough so that the final balance is -8 - 13 = -21?
Can you point me in the right direction or answer these here? And most importantly, did I just answer my own questions without realizing it?
Also maintenance. I plop a city on another continent while getting +9 gold per turn and it becomes -12 per turn. Okay intercontinental maintenance is bad, but when I enter the city it states that the maintenance is 8gpt?? Or is it that by my cities count increasing, every cities maintenance grew by just enough so that the final balance is -8 - 13 = -21?
Can you point me in the right direction or answer these here? And most importantly, did I just answer my own questions without realizing it?
Pangaea
Rock N Roller
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- Sep 17, 2010
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One important lesson is that gold ( 
) is not commerce ( 
).
You get commerce from trade routes, the palace, special resources and cottages and such. That commerce is put through buildings, like libraries and markets (depending on your slider), and converted into
and/or .
Just a fictional example. Lets say you have 100 commerce in your capital. It has a library. You put the slider to 100% science, and that 100 commerce is converted to 125. That again is likely to be a little higher, depending on, for instance, how many AIs know the tech you are researching.
If you don't have a market or any other gold-boosting building, that same 100 commerce is converted to 100 if you have the slider on 0% science. If you have a market and a bank, that 100 commerce is converted to 175 gold.
Of course, you are likely to have a bunch of cities, each with different buildings, so it can get a little complex.
On maintenance, you have city maintenance, but that doesn't tell the full story of the cost of settling a new city. Because when you settle a new city, the civic costs go up a little, and the costs for all other cities go up a little too, unless you are at the max for your difficulty level (the max is 7 per city on Immortal, and 8 per city on Deity). You usually need a looooot of cities to hit that, but in conquest/domination game you're likely to get there sooner or later.
Maintenance is actually a pretty big deal on the higher difficulties, and it can be better to postpone settling new cities until you have the crucial tech Currency. Within reason of course.
I realise this may have been more confusing than clarifying, so sorry about that, but I hope it was a little informational anyway
) is not commerce ( ).You get commerce from trade routes, the palace, special resources and cottages and such. That commerce is put through buildings, like libraries and markets (depending on your slider), and converted into
and/or .Just a fictional example. Lets say you have 100 commerce in your capital. It has a library. You put the slider to 100% science, and that 100 commerce is converted to 125
. That again is likely to be a little higher, depending on, for instance, how many AIs know the tech you are researching.If you don't have a market or any other gold-boosting building, that same 100 commerce is converted to 100
if you have the slider on 0% science. If you have a market and a bank, that 100 commerce is converted to 175 gold.Of course, you are likely to have a bunch of cities, each with different buildings, so it can get a little complex.
On maintenance, you have city maintenance, but that doesn't tell the full story of the cost of settling a new city. Because when you settle a new city, the civic costs go up a little, and the costs for all other cities go up a little too, unless you are at the max for your difficulty level (the max is 7
per city on Immortal, and 8 per city on Deity). You usually need a looooot of cities to hit that, but in conquest/domination game you're likely to get there sooner or later. Maintenance is actually a pretty big deal on the higher difficulties, and it can be better to postpone settling new cities until you have the crucial tech Currency. Within reason of course.
I realise this may have been more confusing than clarifying, so sorry about that, but I hope it was a little informational anyway
s.bernbaum
Mostly lurking
For starters: the symbols that you see on tiles that look like coins represent commerce, not gold. Gold's symbol looks like a couple of stacks of coins next to one another. That said, commerce comes from tiles that inherently generate it, like coastal tiles (figure that represents local fishing, etc) and riverside tiles and resources that have value, such as silver, and from improvements that generate commerce, which includes plantations to increase production from some resources, such as silk, mines on resources, such as gold or silver, wind mills, water mills, and most notably cottages. Cottages only generate one commerce at first (unless on a riverside tile, in which case it is two) but increase over time to as much as seven or eight commerce when matured to a town. Trade routes also generate commerce. Routes overseas (either to your own cities on another island or continent or to foreign ones) generate higher amounts. How much commerce goes to gold versus research, culture, or espionage is determined by how yo set the percentages in the upper left corner of the screen.
Maintenance cost goes up with the distance of cities from the capital, being overseas, and for all cities when the number of cities increases. So, when yo built that oversea city, the maintenance cost went up for each of your other cities as well.
(oops cross post with Pangaea)
Maintenance cost goes up with the distance of cities from the capital, being overseas, and for all cities when the number of cities increases. So, when yo built that oversea city, the maintenance cost went up for each of your other cities as well.
(oops cross post with Pangaea)
Mustakrakish
Deity
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2009
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Thank you. I remembered that there were something fishy with 2 different icons and terms for money. That clarified a lot.
Another question I asked in another thread, but didn't get any answer yet.
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/quick-modding-questions-thread.351519/page-251#post-14651403
Maybe more luck here?
Another question I asked in another thread, but didn't get any answer yet.
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/quick-modding-questions-thread.351519/page-251#post-14651403
Maybe more luck here?
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2008
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- 27,081
@Monkeybone - Fort connections should have no affect on inland sea cities. However, the size of the inland sea/lake can impact the ability for a city to build water related building units. I believe the limit is 9 tiles. Can't remember if it is <=9 is no go, or >= 9 is yes, but something like that. Regardless, I believe the qualifying body of water can be easily detected by the amount of food available 1F vs. 2F.
(As for forts, in BTS only, they do serve as mini-ports if a) built inside your culture b) adjacent to water. The can provide access to island resources - with no city - with a road built too. You can also create channels by combining forts. However, I don't think they have any affect on cities themselves)
@Mustkrakish - That level of mod detail would require modding expertise. Some of the "mod components" you mention may be included in some "mod pack" or another but I'm not sure which. IV is quite different in terms of modding when compared to V/VI as those use Steam Workshop. For IV, it basically comes down to conflict of assets, so that may have to be worked out on a individual bases when combining certain mod componets.
However, I do encourage you to get the most you can out of the base game as there is so much to learn an experience. You can use mods like "BUG/BULL" or "BAT" (BAT is BUG/BULL plus graphics) to improve UI and infos. BAT is highly recommend. Check there forum as well as I think there is an expanded civ option. Blue Marble improves terrains and does not conflict with anything.
If you want a big Earth map, try the GEM mod, which includes some components of other mods like BUG, and has a huge earth map with tons of civs.
Otherwise, if you really want to combine all these little components you will likely need to find expert modding help over in the forum you previously posted
(As for forts, in BTS only, they do serve as mini-ports if a) built inside your culture b) adjacent to water. The can provide access to island resources - with no city - with a road built too. You can also create channels by combining forts. However, I don't think they have any affect on cities themselves)
@Mustkrakish - That level of mod detail would require modding expertise. Some of the "mod components" you mention may be included in some "mod pack" or another but I'm not sure which. IV is quite different in terms of modding when compared to V/VI as those use Steam Workshop. For IV, it basically comes down to conflict of assets, so that may have to be worked out on a individual bases when combining certain mod componets.
However, I do encourage you to get the most you can out of the base game as there is so much to learn an experience. You can use mods like "BUG/BULL" or "BAT" (BAT is BUG/BULL plus graphics) to improve UI and infos. BAT is highly recommend. Check there forum as well as I think there is an expanded civ option. Blue Marble improves terrains and does not conflict with anything.
If you want a big Earth map, try the GEM mod, which includes some components of other mods like BUG, and has a huge earth map with tons of civs.
Otherwise, if you really want to combine all these little components you will likely need to find expert modding help over in the forum you previously posted
6K Man
Bureaucrat
Oh. Emmm. Geeee.
I had no idea that
was two stacks of coins! I suppose that I never questioned that some strange symbol that looked like pi was being used to signify money. 
Ya larns summin every day, it’s true, it’s true.
Mustakrakish
Deity
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2009
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- 2,525
Yeah, thought so. I remembered mostly playing vanilla 7-10 years ago, because it was easier that way, also modpacks really isn't (and it seems wasn't even back then) my thing. Too much content for content's sake. I think I'll try BAT, but I really like me some more religion options. Not sure why I like it so much, probably because I unconsciously remember being sick and tired of the same ones years ago. Map changed, civs changed, leaders changed, religions stayed the same in every game.
It seems I found one modpack that sounds very good after all. Legends of Revolution. Claims to be very stable, that there are no bugs (quite a statement) and most importantly doesn't add content for content's sake, which I like. All features seem to be to my liking and it has BUG as I understand it.
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There's definitely mods with different/more religions. Been a long time since I tried LoR, but I believe its goal was to be an overall enhancement of BTS. Not sure if someone is still working on it, but I believe it was quite stable at the time.
If you want some really different things to try out, and awesome, try Fall From Heaven (Fantasy with its own religion/magic system, and Rhys and Fall of Civilization (ideally with modmod "Dawn of Civilization". Rhys is classic that does add some religion and civs (especially with DoC), but otherwise does not add a lot. The unique thing about Rhys is the Earth map script (which is coded) and the Unique Historical Victory Conditions, which are basically complete different ways to win the game. Civs also spawn in-game at key historical timeframes. For instance, you can start at 3000BC with civs like Egypt, India and China, then Greece and Rome spawn later in the BCs and so on. Some UHVs like Egypt's and Babylons can be achieved, or really, must be achieved rather early, while others have much longer timeframes, so you can pick what you are in the mood for at the time. You can also complete..say..Egypt's UHV...and switch to another civ at the point they spawn.
Another really good mod is Pie's Ancient Europe.
If you want some really different things to try out, and awesome, try Fall From Heaven (Fantasy with its own religion/magic system, and Rhys and Fall of Civilization (ideally with modmod "Dawn of Civilization". Rhys is classic that does add some religion and civs (especially with DoC), but otherwise does not add a lot. The unique thing about Rhys is the Earth map script (which is coded) and the Unique Historical Victory Conditions, which are basically complete different ways to win the game. Civs also spawn in-game at key historical timeframes. For instance, you can start at 3000BC with civs like Egypt, India and China, then Greece and Rome spawn later in the BCs and so on. Some UHVs like Egypt's and Babylons can be achieved, or really, must be achieved rather early, while others have much longer timeframes, so you can pick what you are in the mood for at the time. You can also complete..say..Egypt's UHV...and switch to another civ at the point they spawn.
Another really good mod is Pie's Ancient Europe.
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I've never experienced any issues with it. Extremely popular mod over the years.
Mustakrakish
Deity
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- Sep 2, 2009
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- 2,525
Oh I'm aware of Rhys. It's just that besides some bugs like fast movement turning off and forcing auto end turn when you swap civs, it being a giant map (compared to vanilla huge) plus all the scripting (something I pulled from my ass) makes turn times a little too slow for my tastes. One of the biggest whoa moments when I tried civ4 again after all these years was super fast turn times. Like instant, blink of an eye. As my first game I played Rome on vanilla 18civ earth map (something I remember doing a lot back in the day) and played till space victory and only in the very late game about 1960 AD forward when the whole map was completely filled I started noticing them slowing down. And STILL it was as fast as VI's early game turns... just... wow. And I have to say it's been a while since I wanted to come back to a civ game and finish it (instead of "meh, I'll start a new one"), thinking about it while not playing, it's been a while since the game got more and more interesting as it progressed (instead of getting more and more tedious and boring as with V/VI). I finally got that ancient "one... more... turn..." -feeling. Where did they go wrong with V/VI? But I digress...
I remember FFH too, I particularly remember it being quite heavy to run (not sure if I'm right) and I remember never finishing a single game
Mostly due to it being "heavy to run" and very very slow due to my insistence on playing on marathon back then. I cared not that the base game and mods were all mostly balanced around normal speed I guess I had way too much time on my hands back then.
On LoR: I just tried it and I guess I gotta read civilopedia entries on some of the mechanics. Combat was particularly confusing with something called "opportunity fire". I just disabled that particular thingy. Ai is supposed to be improved with that mod as it contains that better AI thingy. So far I only noticed it in them moving their stack to my city through rough terrain instead of bee-lining blindly. They however parked that massive stack next to the city and never done anything until I teched more advanced units eventually and cleared it
I guess one lousy battering ram in that stack trying to reduce the wall defenses just wasn't enough with them healing back that same amount every turn. I think I prefer vanilla AI to that, at least they'd suicide that stack to at least achieve something, kill a couple to several units of mine. That was extremely weird. But again not the right thread for that. It's just the right ones are dead 
OCD in me suffers from vanilla and BUG interface inconsistencies. Might be because of my resolution 2560 x 1440, but some windows are stretched beyond reasonable, others too small, text not fitting, going overboard or requiring scrolling where shouldn't be necessary etc etc.
Edit: BTW how the interface is made in that game? Does it use python or something else? Is there easily accessible files to modify interface? To stretch that and to chop this, the usual.
I remember FFH too, I particularly remember it being quite heavy to run (not sure if I'm right) and I remember never finishing a single game
Mostly due to it being "heavy to run" and very very slow due to my insistence on playing on marathon back then. I cared not that the base game and mods were all mostly balanced around normal speed I guess I had way too much time on my hands back then.On LoR: I just tried it and I guess I gotta read civilopedia entries on some of the mechanics. Combat was particularly confusing with something called "opportunity fire". I just disabled that particular thingy. Ai is supposed to be improved with that mod as it contains that better AI thingy. So far I only noticed it in them moving their stack to my city through rough terrain instead of bee-lining blindly. They however parked that massive stack next to the city and never done anything until I teched more advanced units eventually and cleared it
I guess one lousy battering ram in that stack trying to reduce the wall defenses just wasn't enough with them healing back that same amount every turn. I think I prefer vanilla AI to that, at least they'd suicide that stack to at least achieve something, kill a couple to several units of mine. That was extremely weird. But again not the right thread for that. It's just the right ones are dead OCD in me suffers from vanilla and BUG interface inconsistencies. Might be because of my resolution 2560 x 1440, but some windows are stretched beyond reasonable, others too small, text not fitting, going overboard or requiring scrolling where shouldn't be necessary etc etc.
Edit: BTW how the interface is made in that game? Does it use python or something else? Is there easily accessible files to modify interface? To stretch that and to chop this, the usual.
Last edited:
Imperator Knoedel
Currently obsessed with The Owl House
You should check out Dawn of Civilization, it fixes all of Rhye's bugs and adds a bunch more goodies.
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Not sure what to tell you about rez. I use 1920 X 1080, and everything looks fine. It simply could be that the game is just not set up to handle the larger rez's we see now.
Civ IV always had a memory leak issue. 64-bit resolved some of the issues, and simply having a likely much better machine than you did way back when helps tremendously. I've no issue running mods like FFH and Rhys now. Generally, I play normal settings as a game of Civ IV is more than satisfying at those settings.
Civ IV always had a memory leak issue. 64-bit resolved some of the issues, and simply having a likely much better machine than you did way back when helps tremendously. I've no issue running mods like FFH and Rhys now. Generally, I play normal settings as a game of Civ IV is more than satisfying at those settings.
6K Man
Bureaucrat
I highly recommend LoR. There's additional features, but most of them (Revolutions, Super Spies, Minor Civs, Legendary Units, Opportunity Fire, etc) can be turned off. Beyond those, there are maybe a half dozen extra techs and maybe twice that many new units, and only a handful are clearly redundant. LoR and K-Mod are the two versions of BtS I play most.
Mustakrakish
Deity
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- Sep 2, 2009
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- 2,525
I like some mechanics there. Minor civs, revolutions, influence driven war. Something I feel should have been there in the first place, hence I understand where the authors went with the whole "feels like an expansion pack" thing. One thing I don't understand so far is ranged bombardment; how it's different. I really like the idea of starting as minor civs, but I am wondering if that impacts AI performance. I'm kinda torn on the new AI thingy. On one hand it does something that seems to be smarter, on the other hand it doesn't. In my test run of the mod I got pretty damn far ahead in science. There is no way I'd get that far in vanilla while being so sloppy all over the place just trying stuff out. Though they are still able to field armies bigger than mine, even if outdated. And the composition feels much more different, smarter perhaps. There's only so much my superior samurai's can do against their swordsmen and axemen (nada to be exact) when they send a bunch of freaking elephants and spearmen (so I couldn't just send a bunch of spearmen to counter). Who does that? It's like they're trolling me, because it's not like they're even dreaming of taking a city with that bunch, and yet they go straight past my attacking stack (which can't do crap to them), past my frontline city deeper into my territory and park their asses next to another city... waiting for someone to take care of them ??? */%&%#!! Then there's Romans who pillaged 2 towns back to cottages and empty field on their way to my city. That hurt. Hurt, but smart, and yet again, that stack while quite biggish and diverse (legions, horsemen, spearmen), has way too few siege with it to make a difference. Stayed outside the city doing nothing until I wiped them off eventually with my 2 super promoted warlord units making a dent into their stack until eventually the rest of samurai's started getting 95%+ odds.
It's like they're trolling me, because it's not like they're even dreaming of taking a city with that bunch, and yet they go straight past my attacking stack (which can't do crap to them), past my frontline city deeper into my territory and park their asses next to another city... waiting for someone to take care of them ??? */%&%#!! Then there's Romans who pillaged 2 towns back to cottages and empty field on their way to my city. That hurt. Hurt, but smart, and yet again, that stack while quite biggish and diverse (legions, horsemen, spearmen), has way too few siege with it to make a difference. Stayed outside the city doing nothing until I wiped them off eventually with my 2 super promoted warlord units making a dent into their stack until eventually the rest of samurai's started getting 95%+ odds.
PsychopathicWarmonger
Warlord
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2016
- Messages
- 169
Looking for some help as regards happiness in cities.
I've had trouble keeping a city happy and sometimes even prevent population growth in cases of unhappiness.
I generally have to divert time and beakers to researching Monarchy to counteract this.
I know gold, ivory etc. are useful for raising that happiness cap but I wanted to know if it's efficient to use Hereditary Rule as a means of raising happiness?
I tend to look at potential settling sites only in terms of riverside commerce, food and hammers, and generally ignore happiness resources and health resources.
I find some of my cities having 8+ military units just to keep them happy. Should happiness resources be one of the top priorities when settling a city?
I've had trouble keeping a city happy and sometimes even prevent population growth in cases of unhappiness.
I generally have to divert time and beakers to researching Monarchy to counteract this.
I know gold, ivory etc. are useful for raising that happiness cap but I wanted to know if it's efficient to use Hereditary Rule as a means of raising happiness?
I tend to look at potential settling sites only in terms of riverside commerce, food and hammers, and generally ignore happiness resources and health resources.
I find some of my cities having 8+ military units just to keep them happy. Should happiness resources be one of the top priorities when settling a city?
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