Rat 41 CCM - AW a first attempt

@Greebley,

I have tried AW several times with this variant and given that you can take over AI's the game is well feasible. Otherwise I wouldn't have suggested that.

We are just a little unfortunate here as we met too many Civs too fast as well as being surrounded by those mountains, well at least we do not face more initial big waves of enemies as we have met a lot of them already.
 
For the large maps and AW, the real trick was to up the amount that a tech cost. The reason was for the human player time to grow before the AI ran away in tech.

It may be that this is part of the issue here as well - or it might not help if the human cannot conquer cities to grow (since you can't simply settle faster).

If always war doesn't work, you can try the variant where just can't end wars, but can start at peace, but also must be at war with at least one civ.

Well I don't think a 250x250 cost factor of 650 was to make it easier on the human. That is about what the CF should be, if the game allowed a selection for a 250 map.

This the numbers I came up with:
Map tiles:
std = 100x100 = 10000; 5000 tiles in CAII; 240 CF (1.0); 1x
huge = 160x160 = 16960; 12800 tiles in CAII; 400 CF (1.66); 2.56x
sup200 = 200x200 = 40000; 20000 tiles in CAII; 530 CF (2.21); 4x
sup250 = 250x250 = 62500; 31250 tiles not tested; 650 CF (2.71); 6.25x
sup362 = 362x362 = 131044; 59006 tiles in CAII; 750 CF (3.125); 11.80x tiles of std.

The ratios are all in line with the std map. I would agree with you that, if the CF is too low for a large map, it would cause techs to go too fast and surely hurt any AW variant.

I thought we had that conversation with Civinator and he up them?

The NOW option is not too bad, it is close to what we did in the DG game. We just did not have any rule.

I think we can hold our own in this game, but time could run out. We won't be able to hold our own, if we are not able to stay at the front of the tech race or darn close to it.

No way we can deal with all of them, if they have the better units later in the game. I am hoping we can put down Korea and get a few more towns and not increase our units much.

The problem is need a lot more towns, quickly. Getting more knights is our best bet to speed up the conversions.
 
the reason why I ran with 10% science is simple. Due to the fact that we got 70% maximum for any of the options, the game will simply reset your setting to 10% science every turn of you chose to run 0/20% and this is the same for the AI. Due to fairness reasons (as the AI can't use the trick to always reset the values) I kept it at 10/20.

Wow we are not allowed to raise our tax rate?
 
Not to 80%, since everything is capped at 70% for monarchy in CCM, unless we use a trick Rat prefers to avoid. So we've got a useless 10%, I believe Rat is saying; it either gives us needless research or redundant happiness.
 
The increase in happy may be of use as it could let us remove some MP's. They could be disbanded or set to the front. I see the limit in research, but not sure I get limiting the other 2.

I wonder if we had realized that would Theo have thenmade more sense? That is if it allowed 80%.
 
WE are only going to run this way for the few turns until we get or miss PS. From then on I am very sure we will run 70% science forever. So, I rather not exploit this for a mere 10 turns.

The reason why I did not run 30% lux is that I do not want to grow cities that would then have a problem running at 20% later on. In fact we should try and reduce lux to 10% in not so long term.
 
ThERat- just played
CommandoBob - up
Northern Pike
M60A3TTS- hanging loose for now
Elephantium
vmxa
 
Got it; strategy post tomorrow.
 
CB, I take it from that that you won't be doing anything tonight. If that's the case, would you mind if I jumped ahead of you? This is a better time for me to play than the next few days, and I'll post by early Thursday evening, so it shouldn't delay your process any.
 
NP, go ahead, I like fast turn arounds :goodjob:
 
850 (0): I still think Theology might be a better second choice from Philosopher's Stone than Engineering, but I won't subject the team to the irritation of river effects lasting far into the second age when I haven't had any feedback on the point. So we stick with Engineering.

We switch Cheju and Genoa to granary builds.

After some thought I short-rush a granary in Naples, too. In this financial situation we desperately need city growth.

A Russian chariot redlines and retreats at Pusan.

Naples completes a granary, and Turin slavery.


875 (1): We dispose of the Russian chariot outside Pusan and a Turkish stack of three at Pisa, gaining a slave (4-0).

We prepare to push forward from Pusan.

The Carthaginian phant lurking in the forest outside Pyongyang finally attacks. It redlines and retreats.


900 (2): Three Carth jumbos are on a hill outside Pisa. We'll have to let them attack and take the consequences, but it'll be a terrible attack in terrain terms.

We twist the trunk of the redlined Carth elephant outside Pyongyang (5-0). Its last words: "How do you breathe through that thing?"

We move adjacent to Nampo, which is only four tiles from Pusan. It's a hill town, though.

The three Carth jumbos around Pisa don't like their chances in a transriverine attack on a hill town, even without walls, and move to a flat tile where they're vulnerable.

We unhorse a Carth AC attacking Pyongyang (6-0).

Milan completes a granary, Pyongyang a Christian Community, and Pisa a Roman fort.

The Mongols, unknown to us, complete Royal Tournament. So we won't capture it in time to use it, but we may never face its units either.


925 (3): We storm Nampo, held only by two spearmen, and immediately culture-bomb it (8-0).

We're close to two Russian cities now--so close it's hard to see how we didn't meet them much earlier. Anyway, we should be funding our research with their gold before long.

Our elite enslaver picks off a Korean archer around Nampo, and achieves the maximum possible result, generating both a Great Leader and a slave (9-0).

We account for six enemies, including the three Carth WE and a Carth cat, around Pisa. We lose a cat and a knight in good-looking attacks, though (15-2).

Outside Cheju we grind down a Russian stack of four, including two chariots, so we're working through their autoproduced units (19-2).

We expunge a Viking Berserk/cat team outside Venice, and also a Viking archer landed next to Naples (22-2).

We lure a Russian swordsman into a bad attack outside Cheju (23-2).


950 (4): We abolish a Turkish cat/archer pair outside Pisa with slavers, but take no slaves (25-2).

Routinely disposing of a Russian spearman near Cheju costs us a Legionary (26-3). Well, that's AW without bombardment or armies.

We overrun an Egyptian cat outside Nampo (27-3).

We get a stack of fifteen moving towards the Korean city NW of Pyongyang.

The Vikings want peace. They have the expected eight cities, all native.

Genoa completes its granary.


975 (5): Our Leader rushes a marketplace in Milan.

We lash a Turkish spearman/warrior pair, gaining a monk, as we advance on the last Korean city (29-3).

Bah, getting an Eg spearman off our roads costs us another Legionary (30-4).

A Russian swordsman makes an unwise attack on Nampo (31-4). They've put a fair-sized stack by the city, though.

We detusk a Carth jumbo attacking our modest SoD approaching the last Korean city (32-4).

Our gallant exploring warrior in the north is finally ridden down by Siamese forces (32-5). He mapped a remarkable area for us, by AW standards.

Milan completes its rushed marketplace.

Naples completes its aqueduct, just as it hits size eleven.

The Egyptians complete Dome of the Rock. That should eventually give us Hebrew communities everywhere on our continent.

One turn to Philosopher's Stone, so it's ours, given the sequence of events.


1000 (6): We smite one Russian spearman around Nampo, but otherwise wait for the Russians to make bad attacks (33-5).

We move adjacent to Wonsan. Our stack may take a bit of a beating in the IT, but after that things should go smoothly.

We liquidate a Turkish pikeman that moved onto flat ground near Pyongyang (34-5).

At Nampo we lose a Praet to a Russian cat attack but rebuff two swordsmen and an archer (37-6). We take a slave, since the archer was able to stealth-attack a slaver despite the presence of Legionaries and Praetorians in the town, which I didn't expect.

Our SoD next to Wonsan isn't attacked, though it no longer has a pikeman on top.

PHILOSOPHER'S STONE brings us Engineering and Gunpowder.

Florence and Cheju complete granaries, Pisa a Christian Community. Nampo rushes walls.


1025 (7): We take Wonsan, held only by two spearmen, and eliminate the "Fragile Koreans". We lose a knight (38-7). There's at least one worker in the town, but for some reason it dies when we enter. One Korean unit that we can see comes off the map.

We culture-bomb Wonsan.

The only saltpetre anywhere near us is at Pusan. It's not roaded, but as we have a one-turn roading stack headed to that section of the front, we hook it up immediately.

We start on Theology at 70% (maximum in CCM monarchy), 18 turns, and -101 gpt--painful numbers, but they should improve.

We round up three enemy units in what's now the behind-the-lines Pisa-Pyongyang sector, and another near Wonsan (42-7).

We upgrade a few pikemen to arquebusiers near the front, but I don't think we can afford to do it en masse.

The Russians don't attack Nampo, since it's now a walled hill town.

Venice completes an aqueduct.


1050 (8): We tusk a Russian swordsman, then extirpate a treb and three other Russian units in vulnerable positions, all around Nampo (47-7). We gain our second GL of the round, who immediately rushes the Great Guild in Pusan.

We begin advancing on what appears to be an isolated Russian city south of Nampo.

This interturn may be unpleasant at Wonsan, but after that we'll have walls up.

We begin exploring SW of Pyongyang with a cheap unit, because it looks as if that's where our next city should go.

We break the attack of a Roman archer at Nampo (48-7).

We do well at Wonsan, going 3-1 against various attacks (51-8).

Rome completes a windmill, and should be at 50 spt for one-turn knights in two turns.

Wonsan completes walls.

Pusan builds the GREAT GUILD.


1075 (9): We move adjacent to Smolensk, a small and isolated coastal town. It has a lot of floodplain and should grow explosively for us, though.

We sweep away another two Russian units around Nampo (53-8).

Our exploring Legionary finds a patch of BG, so our next city will definitely go SW of Pyongyang.

We trample a Viking spearman north of Cheju (54-8).

We defenestrate two Turkish units outside Wonsan (56-8).

A longbowman attacking out of Smolensk shoots down the pikeman covering our attack force, but the Russians don't have the units for follow-up attacks (56-9).


1100 (10): We seize Smolensk, held by two pikemen and a longbowman. We lose one Legionary--a very moderate cost, when we see that the city has a castle (59-10). If this small town has a castle, then unfortunately most of the Russians' cities probably do. We gain a worker and steal 186 gold, which will fund one and a half turns of deficit research.

I won't waste a monk on culture-bombing Smolensk, since it isn't subject to attack.

We eviscerate two Viking units, a Berserk and a chariot, approaching Venice (61-10).

We scythe down a Russian spearman outside Cheju (62-10).

We lose an elite yogi in the best possible attack, against a defense-one unit on flat terrain (62-11). :mad:

We wreck two Egyptian chariots around Nampo, taking one slave (64-11).

We rend three Turkish units around Wonsan (67-11).

Nine missionary/yogi victories this round yielded three monks.

Eight slaver victories this round, one defensive, generated four slaves.

Eighteen elite victories this round, two of them defensive, produced two Great Leaders.
 
We need the Russians' gold, and we probably don't have enough units to advance on two fronts when it's likely to be bloody, so our strategy should be to attack in the southeast and defend Wonsan. Slaughtering our enemies at Wonsan shouldn't be difficult.

We got a fair amount of infrastructure built this round, so our cities will grow and our finances will improve, provided we can keep up the pace in military terms.

When I see the way our cities are growing now that we've got granaries built, I'm confident that monarchy was the right choice over theocracy, whatever the outcome of this game. Almost nothing justifies a game-long tile penalty.

One bit of bad news: the Russians have just lost the next city we would have taken from them to a volcano. But the tips of a Russian border are just visible sticking out of the fog east of Nampo, so we're still close.

The pressure on the Venice-Cheju sector has been light. The Vikings and Egyptians aren't sending much, and the Russians are making their main effort farther south.

Our new settler is two tiles NE of Pyongyang, and will be able to found a new city SW of Pyong in about five turns. We'll have to scout a little more before we can determine the exact location. Remember that in this mod, avoiding any overlap with Pyongyang and getting every possible food bonus will be more important than putting the city right on the river; so the tile five directly SW of Pyong looks good, but we can't be sure yet. OTOH, if the area proves promising enough that we'll want to fit two cities in, a central location for the first one would be wrong.

We have one-turn roading stacks near Smolensk and Pyongyang. It's fine if they do normal jobs a little behind the front until we advance again, but they mustn't be allowed to drift backward until they're out of touch with the front altogether. We need to use them tactically, especially since the Russians have pillaged the roads leading from Nampo to their lands.

There is however an extra foreign worker in the stack near Smolensk, which can go wherever you want.

Upgrade archers and pikemen wherever you see the need, but don't do it comprehensively; we can't afford it. We have two catapults we haven't upgraded because they're elite.

Feel free to rush Nampo's fort if you think we need immediate full healing there. Also, if you decide you'd rather have the Russians attack Nampo than bypass it, it would be perfectly legitimate to sell the city walls.

The three Turkish units on a hill next to Wonsan can't do anything, and there's no need to attack them until they move onto flatland.

We'll be allowing elephant and knight attacks at Wonsan this IT, but with arquebusiers supported by cats defending behind walls it should be all right.

There's an easily overlooked Russian spearman near Cheju, which we can attack when it moves onto clear terrain.

We have two monks, which I've left with their movement to call attention to them.

Next turn Rome will reach size fourteen and 50 spt for one-turn knights. In fact we should be able to build a knight this IT with the invisible shields from growth, but I'm not sure the program will put the new citizen on the right tile.

Civinator, this is a quibble but you might want to know: Rome's settlers and workers look virtually identical, which is bound to lead someone into an error eventually. The present settler has caused me a couple of "Why the ____ is a worker there?" reactions already. :lol:
 
The home front:

Rat41-1000AD.jpg


Rat41-1050AD.jpg


Twilight in the west:

Rat41-1025AD.jpg


Rat41-1100ADi.jpg


Under the volcano:

Rat41-1100ADii.jpg
 
I seem to recall something about attackers not being able to capture workers. I think it is only native ones, but I may be the non natives.
 
I remember that too, but when we took Smolensk later in the round, we did capture the worker in the town. It's odd.
 
I wonder about going to the Sout/SE. It looks like there may be a lot of land that way and we are pretty sure at least 4 nations. Going the other way we are fairly sure there are Carth/Turks and Indo. All we have been beating on for some time.

We have seen water on three sides, so a strong shot that no others are nort or west that we have not met.

IOW going for Russia could lead to more to deal with and still have to cover our backs. If there are more to the other side of Russia, beyond the ones we alreay know, they would at least have a long way to travel to attackas we not sit.

If we take Russian towns they would not have as far to gt to us.

Edit:
I was checking on the cash and got distracted. Carthage has over 7K and must be right behind the Turks.
 
Well, we know six civs with the Koreans gone, three in the north and three in the south. We're a fair distance into the game, and it's a continents map, so that may be all for our landmass. If there are several more civs on our continent we may be doomed, so I'm not sure it's worth planning on that assumption.

It's certainly relevant that the Carthaginians have much more money than the Russians. The problem is that we haven't located a single Carth city, and we'd apparently have to fight our way through the Turks or the Siamese to reach them. At least we're in contact with the Russians.

Also, we aren't seeing a lot of third-party forces on the Russian front--just a dribble of Egyptian units. If we try to push NW from Wonsan we'll be advancing into the teeth of everything the Siamese and the Carths have to send as we try to take Turkish cities.
 
Excellent round of turns :goodjob:

The game is starting to look rosier :D I am also unsure where to go. Russia seems a little far off and maybe vmxa is right. We would face Indochina, the Turks and then Carthage. If Carthage is the country with most cash, maybe we should go after them?

I have no access to the game now, does anyone know who has luxes. I seem to recall that Carthage has two more luxes we don't have? We need to try and gain more happiness so we can reduce lux to 10%. From the screen shot I can see we currently run at 30%, far too high and costly.
Who has wonders?

It is the unit support that is currently killing our economy, so we need to continue to use our units and expand. Every town will get our unit support up.
 
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