ThERat
Deity
Ok, after reading NP's reply, maybe he is right. We should try and finish Russia off and then turn north to whoever has the most cash.
My question is, do we need to run 30% lux?
My question is, do we need to run 30% lux?
Rat 41 CCM - AW a first attempt
- Thread starter ThERat
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CommandoBob
AbstractArt
I'm going to need a skip this round. My video card is becoming cranky; BSOD at startup and for no reason at other times.
ThERat
Deity
ThERat-
CommandoBob -skipped
Northern Pike - just played
M60A3TTS- hanging loose for now
Elephantium - up
vmxa
CommandoBob -skipped
Northern Pike - just played
M60A3TTS- hanging loose for now
Elephantium - up
vmxa
ThERat
Deity
By the way, we could use a missionary or yogi to scout via the mountains. There are plenty of them near Russia and as long as you move that missionary on unroaded mountains, nobody but other missionaries can attack you. It's a great strategy I often use in my games
Finally, a question to NP, did you enjoy your turns? Need to gauge who you feel in comparison with C3C.
Finally, a question to NP, did you enjoy your turns? Need to gauge who you feel in comparison with C3C.
Northern Pike
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The Turks have incense, the Siamese furs (we can see these, but they're very distant), and the Carths furs and incense. The three southern civs have nothing, not even the spices we've got. These are actually very good data, in what they suggest about the number of civs on our continent and our chances for conquering it.
We do need 30% lux to avoid running any specialists and get maximum population growth, which was one of my principal goals. We could cut it to 20% for about three turns with only minor adjustments, and that might be worth doing, but after that we'll be pretty well stuck at 30% until we grab more luxuries.
Oh, certainly. Even if we turn out to have misjudged the difficulty level (possible) or the need for a better GLib (very possible), playing AW with these limitations is a fascinating challenge. By this point in our usual games we'd be sure of victory, and actually being uncertain of our prospects adds excitement.
We do need 30% lux to avoid running any specialists and get maximum population growth, which was one of my principal goals. We could cut it to 20% for about three turns with only minor adjustments, and that might be worth doing, but after that we'll be pretty well stuck at 30% until we grab more luxuries.
Oh, certainly. Even if we turn out to have misjudged the difficulty level (possible) or the need for a better GLib (very possible), playing AW with these limitations is a fascinating challenge. By this point in our usual games we'd be sure of victory, and actually being uncertain of our prospects adds excitement.
Northern Pike
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BTW, the fact that there are three civs in the north and three in the south gives a wrong impression of the relative strengths. The southern civs have had some bad luck, and the Siamese in the north have extra settlers from the Pyramids, so the score in cities is north 28, south 20.
ThERat
Deity
Having 3/7 (yes, ivory is a strategic resource here), we should actually face more enemies on our shores. I sure hope we don't meet them too soon.
If we do meet one more AI, be prepared for an epic battle against the initial stack which can be quite intimidating if you first encounter them.
I suggest to use a missionary to scout a little to the south so we can judge whether we can attack south with ease.
If we do meet one more AI, be prepared for an epic battle against the initial stack which can be quite intimidating if you first encounter them.
I suggest to use a missionary to scout a little to the south so we can judge whether we can attack south with ease.
Northern Pike
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You're right, 3/7 or 4/8 (depending on how the program looks at it) has worse implications than 3/8. 
NP we have not met the Mongols, but they would seem to be somewhere on this land map and if they are it is not down by the Turks. Given the area available for more land on this continent, it is almost certain we will have nore than the 3 we already know and the 4th we suspect.
Going to the Turks should not be any harder that the other direction as all the known nations have been sending units. Indo the most as we have faced them all the way.
Egypt would seem to be pinned by someone, likely the Vikes. Russia is still good size and given they have sent units on our left, right and center, I would think they are astride much of the area immedialtely past us.
If so they are probably slowing down meeting others, along with the distance. Don't know for sure and it is possible there is no one else in that direction.
All I am saying is we pretty much know that little could be in the direction of the Turks other than Hannibal and Indo. Just can't be that much land. The one thing we do know is that with the layout we have now we are pretty safe from the three we know to our East.
The ones that we have some danger from right now are the ones to our West. Anyway I just wanted to put this out there to be considered. Either way we go we need to get more towns. We will not be able to run a big deficit for more than a dozen turns.
Going to the Turks should not be any harder that the other direction as all the known nations have been sending units. Indo the most as we have faced them all the way.
Egypt would seem to be pinned by someone, likely the Vikes. Russia is still good size and given they have sent units on our left, right and center, I would think they are astride much of the area immedialtely past us.
If so they are probably slowing down meeting others, along with the distance. Don't know for sure and it is possible there is no one else in that direction.
All I am saying is we pretty much know that little could be in the direction of the Turks other than Hannibal and Indo. Just can't be that much land. The one thing we do know is that with the layout we have now we are pretty safe from the three we know to our East.
The ones that we have some danger from right now are the ones to our West. Anyway I just wanted to put this out there to be considered. Either way we go we need to get more towns. We will not be able to run a big deficit for more than a dozen turns.
The Pedia still shows Ivory as a lux and is not listed as a Strategic resource. So is there 7 or should one be list rather than Ivory? Anyway I tend to just look at the size of the landmass
and not draw much from how many lux.
I am just looking at all the dark area to the right and presuming that a decent chunk of it will be part of our landmass. If Mongols are on an island and out that way, then we may not have others to sweat, but that would not be my bet.
I look at things like what are the scenarios? Which one of the is best, worst? Is there a play that if wrong does not put me at risk? Like I say in 9 ball, if there is only one way to get into trouble and all the rest range from ok to wonderful, make sure you don't take the one that can get you into trouble.
Here we have go left or go right. It could be that going in either direction is no more a risk that the other. It could be going to the right will run into more nations. If so it may not hurt or it could be fatal.
Going to the left may mean not getting the cash from Russia at all or not soon at least. So what do we have? A number of possiblity with only one having the potential of being real bad. That is my point.
and not draw much from how many lux.
I am just looking at all the dark area to the right and presuming that a decent chunk of it will be part of our landmass. If Mongols are on an island and out that way, then we may not have others to sweat, but that would not be my bet.
I look at things like what are the scenarios? Which one of the is best, worst? Is there a play that if wrong does not put me at risk? Like I say in 9 ball, if there is only one way to get into trouble and all the rest range from ok to wonderful, make sure you don't take the one that can get you into trouble.
Here we have go left or go right. It could be that going in either direction is no more a risk that the other. It could be going to the right will run into more nations. If so it may not hurt or it could be fatal.
Going to the left may mean not getting the cash from Russia at all or not soon at least. So what do we have? A number of possiblity with only one having the potential of being real bad. That is my point.
ThERat
Deity
I agree that we want to avoid meeting more Civs for now. What we do know is that we get that great wonder and that means no run away Civ yet, which is heartening.
As for which direction is better? Thinking of luxes, I'd say go northwest. What makes you so confident that there isn't more land in the west, vmxa? I rather we do only eliminate Turks, Indochina and Carthage ( we would gain the pyramids, a powerful wonder in my mind)
So, I am open for both directions.
As for which direction is better? Thinking of luxes, I'd say go northwest. What makes you so confident that there isn't more land in the west, vmxa? I rather we do only eliminate Turks, Indochina and Carthage ( we would gain the pyramids, a powerful wonder in my mind)
So, I am open for both directions.
Northern Pike
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The arguments for more civs on our continent are convincing, but how do we know the Mongols specifically are here?
Yes, but even given the approximate equality in city numbers some of our enemies may be more productive than others, or have more troublesome units (Carthaginian phants). During my round the stream of units from the NW was far harder to deal with than the stream from the SE, and that influences my thinking on where we should attack.
Your point that more complications may await us in the SE is quite valid. For me the dominant factor is that if we don't keep expanding at a reasonable rate, we're going to lose, and the early indications are that we can take a Russian city every five turns or so. My sense is that the Egyptians will be fairly easy prey if we can get to their cities, too. I don't have the same confidence about operations in the NW, where we'd be attacking right into the line of advance of three strong enemies. But I agree that it's a hard choice, and if the team's decision is to attack NW, that's fine.
ThERat
Deity
Maybe there is this cultural group thingy? Korea and Mongols? Rome and Egypt?
Anyway, it's really tough to decide where to go. I agree that the south looks easier to conquer but we should really avoid to run into more Civs for now. It would be nice to have a sole front.
How about playing out the 'northern alliance' by roading the mountains west of our capital and cross into Turkey straight from there? With 1 turn knights we could pull this off pretty soon.
Anyway, it's really tough to decide where to go. I agree that the south looks easier to conquer but we should really avoid to run into more Civs for now. It would be nice to have a sole front.
How about playing out the 'northern alliance' by roading the mountains west of our capital and cross into Turkey straight from there? With 1 turn knights we could pull this off pretty soon.
Northern Pike
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Yes--if we do attack to the NW, we should definitely do an end run through the mountains rather than attacking into the traffic jam around Wonsan/Aydin.
Elephantium
Trampling the AI
Got it.
Sounds like the tentative plan is to build a road through the mountains near Rome and then attack Turkey that way.
Wonsan will be a defensive front.
Russia ...
I'm not sure. Should I keep pushing there, or should I simply hold the line to reduce the chances of meeting more civs?
Finally...what about Scandinavia? I'd like to go after them
, but if that would expose us elsewhere, it wouldn't be worth it.
Sounds like the tentative plan is to build a road through the mountains near Rome and then attack Turkey that way.
Wonsan will be a defensive front.
Russia ...
I'm not sure. Should I keep pushing there, or should I simply hold the line to reduce the chances of meeting more civs?Finally...what about Scandinavia? I'd like to go after them
, but if that would expose us elsewhere, it wouldn't be worth it.
I don't. That is why I mentioned they could even be on an island out that way. In fact that could be some place else altogether. It is just that we heard about them already getting a wonder a few turn sets back. That tends to suggest they are here, but not a fact.
The one thing that is for sure, is that we will need more time to go away from Russia. Who knows, I am not going to raise a fuss with whatever the turn player decide or if some one feels strongly one way or the other.
I do not feel so strongly that I am certain of anything. It is just fun to speculate. Hell even if we get a worse case scenrio, does not mean we can't pull it off.
ThERat
Deity
Elephantium, you could prepare and maybe start that attack on Turkey while defending the other parts and maybe send a missionary out to check out on Russia.
We know the Vikings come from somewhere along the coast in the southeast. Maybe you can scout there as well. We don't want to conquer cities that are too far off and very hard to support. In that sense Turkey is a very good next target.
We know the Vikings come from somewhere along the coast in the southeast. Maybe you can scout there as well. We don't want to conquer cities that are too far off and very hard to support. In that sense Turkey is a very good next target.
Got it.
Finally...what about Scandinavia? I'd like to go after them
Hard to after Vikes as we do not know exactly where they are right now. It is surely off to the east of Venice, but how far? They cannot be real strong given what we have seen from them.
Of the 6 nations we have seen units from, who is sending the best stuff and the most? Are they also the one with the most towns as far as we know? Then we may not want to wait on them too long.
I think Indo has sent about the most and then Russia, then Turks? Russia is now much weaker. Turks and Indo have not lost any towns to us or at least not from the core area.
Speaking of using Missonaries to scout, what happens if they run into a new nation? Do we have a contact, if the other guy cannot see us? IOW will F4 show the new guy or does it require a normal contact?
I am not sure what happen, if they blindly run into one of our hidden units. When we run into one of theirs and have no prior contact, we do not gain a new contact right? We couldn't as we do not know who it was we hit.
I am not sure what happen, if they blindly run into one of our hidden units. When we run into one of theirs and have no prior contact, we do not gain a new contact right? We couldn't as we do not know who it was we hit.
ThERat
Deity
If we can crack Indochina, we will be in very good shape. They are the ones we need to take. Currently we have a window of opportunity with our attack 4 knights while the AI has not yet gotten gunpowder (I hope). We must make use of that fact as much as possible.
