RB4 - Desert Runner

Looks like we are doing well so far. :)

For the final goals, I would like to try a military victory, because I am usually a builder, so I'd like to take this chance to practice fighting under guidiance of more experienced players. (I do understand how combat works, but never seem to build enough troops to finish off my enenies, instead of just crippling them and returning to peace.)

About alliances, it would probably be better to ally with Louis, especially if we want to try attacking across desert. Ghandi is unlikely to attack us himself and wouldn't make a useful ally in wartime.

Another thing we'd need to attack across desert is to start building a road right away to have it ready in time. We could also build slowly across the desert by putting cottage-surrounded cities along our river all the way to Alex's territory. All those cottages should make the cities pay for themselves (and for distance maintanence of our northern conquests) and the cities will also help guard the road.
 
Got sidetracked, starting play now. Will take a look and either focus on military buildup or infrastructure during my 10. War sounds good to me - I tend to superbuilder and then only go to war with an overwheleming tech advantage. Be interesting to try that on a difficulty where I won't have that advantage.
 
Louis declared war on us for the third time just now in the MM8 game, but that may just have to do with the close borders and religious differences. I think as long as we stay in the same camp he should not be that dangerous ( ... famous last words :D ).

I second the call for a military goal; if we're to go for that, we should probably send an expedition to the iron a bit sooner; engineering will also be very useful for increased road movement. I do think Gandhi is an obvious first target; despite the resource advantages of having both Northern and Southern holdings, we can do without horses just fine. Gandhi also has two religions that we could spread to our cities for happy help & his cities are easier to get to, cheaper to maintain and will help fund later campaigns in the North earlier on.
 
(1) Start turn. First thing that pops up: Choose our next tech! I go for civil service - it's the deepest in the tree, and hence more valuable trading (In addition to the irrigation benefits and being a maceman prereq)
Move some settlers, fortify some axes. Nothing much going on.
I check to see if there's any trading to be done - not much. No CPUs have any techs they're willing to trade.

(2) Build a pasture.

(3) Pasargadae builds Courthouse. Starts Aqueduct, as it is over its health limit currently.
Confucianism spreads in our lands. I don't convert, since I'm not a big fan of what religion does to international relations.
(4)Susa builds aqueduct. Starts market. (Moneymoneymoneymoneymoney!)
I ratchet up science to 70% - we're losing 3 per turn, but we have 61 in the bank.

(5)Persepolis finishes courthouse. Starts Chichen Itza. Stone coming online in a turn or two to speed this too.
Shuffle workers around!
(6)Stone online. Alexander has a settler party near our northern borders. Barbarian appears in the south - I start to move an axe or two to patrol the wilderness until or borders expand a bit more to eliminate barbs from spawning.
(7)Victoria doesn't like us trading with the Greeks. For now, I think Alexander is both a bigger threat and a better trading partner, so I tell her to shove it.
The Persian Empire is 2 million strong!
(8) Moving a worker to add a chop to Chichen itza. Every little bit helps! He's chopping from just outside of Persepolis' fat cross, so no health hit there.
(9) Shuffle workers around. Dodge the barbarian warrior.
Gordium finishes Granary, starts Courthouse
Worker near Persepolis starts chop.
(10) Axe kills a barb near Persepolis.
Turn ends.

Mostly building worker things and infrastructure. Nothing else of interest, except that I annoyed victoria slightly by refusing to stop trading with Alex.
 
Sorry for slow reply. I'll play it in a few hours.

Does anybody have any suggestions/recommendations?

If not, I'll continue expanding north (perhaps grabbing iron) and start prapairing for war.
 
In 350AD, the mighty Persian Empire looks as strong as ever. We are #1 in score, GNP, Production, Land Area and Population and #2 in food and trade income. Our army is only 5th largest, but quality is better than quantity.

We are still short on workers, so I throw in a worker in 4 before a Market in Susa, because market will give us only 1 extra gold per turn and we can get that much from having the worker build cottage 3 turns earlier.

375AD (turn 1) - Gordium Worker starts building road to Furs. Free worker at Arabela starts building road to insence. Pasagadae worker starts building a road to corn. Persepolis worker finishes chopping forest, starts building road. (Will be useful for last settler.)

400AD (turn 2) - Workers work, troops march, cities build. Ghandi's missionary spreads Hinduism in Susa.

425AD (turn 3) - Pasargadae starts Confucian monastery in 5 (improves science and gives us option of building missionaries). Louis' missionary spreads Buddhism in Persepolis.

450AD (turn 4) - Worhers near Ghuzz start making plantation and road on sugar. Susa finishes worker, goes back to Market (in 3), worker starts building cottages. One worker at Arabela starts plantation on Insence, while another starts one more cottage.

475AD (turn 5) - We discover Civil Service and enter Medieval Era. I start research on Construction in 5 for Catapults and war elephants. We could go for Literature and Great Library, but everybody else has been working on it for a while (refusing to trade literature), so I don't want to risk it. Arabela finishes Library starts on Aqueduct in 10.

Ghuzz finishes courthouse starts on Library in 9. Tarsus finishes courthouse, starts on Library in 11.

500AD (turn 6) - We complete Chichen Itza. Persepolis starts on Buddist Monastery (3) for research bonus and a chance to build missionaries. We revolt to Burocracy, because improved production and commerce in Persepolis will be more than enough to offset the maintanance cost and even a lost turn of production will pay off eventually.

520AD (turn 7) - Anarchy is over. I send an axeman to infestigate Barbarian borders to our east.

540AD (turn 8) - Louis offers dyes for our extra fur and I agree, because nobody else wants our furs. Susa finishes Market and starts Settler in 5.

560AD (turn 9) - Persepolis finishes Monastery, starts Spearman in 1 Pasagadae finishes monastery, starts spearman in 3. (Alex's troops massing on our border are making me nervous.) One of Pasagadae's axemen goes to check whether Iron site is still available.

580AD (turn 10) - Peter demands Civil Service. I refuse. We finish construction, start on metal casting in 5 (for forges and Machinery that will enable Macemen) Persepolist finishes Spearman and starts War Elephant in 2. I guess building that spearman was a mistake, because Elephants fulfill the same function. Spearman goes to Arabela.

Attached screenshots show overall view of our empire, as well as detailed picture of our NE border with Alex's town and barbarian town.
 

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Inherited turn: When revolting, it wouldn't have hurt to revolt to organized religion as well. Changing one or two civics makes no difference regarding length of anarchy, and it might have saved us a turn of anarchy later in case we adopt a state religion.

I reconfigure most of our cities, and emphasize growth/commerce where limits haven't been reached yet, and emphasize hammers/commerce otherwise. Persepolis especially has a lot of potential for growing - which it should, as it is our capital. Emphasizing growth slows down military production there slightly, but in the long run it will be worth it if the city grows faster!

We should choose our allies now, which of course won't be set in stone and can be changed if needed - but I think it's very important to cultivate some friendships. If we want to attack Gandhi, I think we should try to get Louis to be our friend, and Alex as well. That would keep our back safe when warring. Both seem to like each other, so that will help.

To help with this, I trade incense to Alex for wheat.

600AD (1): Move an axemen to the barbarian city of Ligurian. Two archers are defending it, but it is also surrounded by units from several nations.

620AD (2): Hah! Peter has killed one of the defending archers, so I see an opportunity for our axe to act. He gets two city raider promotions, and takes the city.
I thought long about whether I should raze it or keep it. It's not in the best of locations and wastes some tiles, but on the other hand we won't be able to send settlers there fast enough, and it would make a good outpost towards France. I decide to keep it, although not entirely happy about it.

640AD (3): A scouting axeman finds out that the iron sources are under Russian control.

660AD (4): Metal Casting -> Machinery (towards Engineering for increased road movement).
I know Catherine is probably in the wrong camp, and I won't make any resource deals with her, but techs...I cannot resist...
I trade Metal casting and Civil Service to Catherine for Literature, Feudalism, and 290 gold.
Then I trade Construction to Louis for 370 gold, serving two purposes: It will improve relations, and it allows us deficit research for a long time.

680AD (5): Seems like Gandhi used a culture bomb!?! I've never seen something like this before, amazingly intelligent! :goodjob:



Peter will be in trouble, but this is very nice for us: Now we might be able to get iron with our war against Gandhi as well! (I hope Yakutsk will be flipped by then)

I do some more trades:
Metal Casting to Alex for Compass (relations!)
Civil Service to Peter for Music

700AD (6): Found Bactra, south of Persepolis.

720AD (7): Alex starts a golden age.

740AD (8): :sleep:

760AD (9): Machinery -> Eengineering.
Argh, despite having ~75% odds of generating a great engineer in Persepolis, we get a great prophet instead! :mad: I'm not sure what to do with him yet, so I save him until we've discussed this.

780AD (10): :sleep:
 
Got it. I suggest using the prophet on Divine Right if it hasn't been invented yet.
 
Some thoughts...

- I used Susa to spit out workers during my turns, and I think we need some more.


- I've set many of our cities on building military. If we want to go to war with Gandhi, we need to dedicate our empire to this (and we were frigheningly weak anyway!). I've delayed building forges in favor of military, too - they have to wait until after a war. But we have to have at least some units on the Greek and French borders as well, in case they get funny ideas. The rest can be sent to the Indian front. Build some pikes, too!


- We might consider converting to a religion soon. Only problem is, which one? Confucianism, because Alex (and Hatty) are Confucians? In that case, we should try to convert Louis, although this might be tough. Or Buddhism, because Louis is our Buddhistic direct neighbour? That would tick off Alex most likely. I'm not sure who will be easier to convert.
The third option would be to remain atheistic, but as I've said, I'm a huge fan of making some real friends, even if that means pissing off other civs. I'm not sure if we will be able to achieve this without religion boni to offset close border penalties and such.


- What to do with the great prophet? I don't think we will ever generate many great people, and any great engineer we might get will be better spent on rushing a wonder. So I don't think saving him for a golden age would be the best choice here. We could use him to discover Theology, or save him for a more expensive tech - but that would most probably be Divine Right, which I often skip entirely in my games. So I think the best choice would be to let him join Persepolis, but I'm open to other arguments here of course.


- The next player should probably switch to vassalage (and organized religion), for the experience bonus. Gandhi and Alex have adopted vassalage as well - maybe they are building up an army, as we do.


Roster:
Kylearan -> just played
jameson -> UP NOW
Snaproll -> on deck
hiob
dopplex
Zeviz

-Kylearan
 
Hi,

I had intended to play my turns just now, but as it turns out I'm way too tired to do any justice to my turnset (my weekend from work consists of Mondays instead of Saturday and Sunday). Since my next opportunity to play won't be before tomorrow evening late CET, I humbly request a skip or a swap.
 
Hi,

jameson said:
Since my next opportunity to play won't be before tomorrow evening late CET, I humbly request a skip or a swap.
I think tomorrow evening would still be in the (relaxed) 24+48 hours timeframe, so no problem there. But a swap with Snaproll would be fine as well - whatever you prefer. :)

-Kylearan
 
either is fine; if Snaproll happens to be able to pick it up tonight or tomorrow, I can play on Monday. Otherwise I'll try and pick it up tomorrow evening.
 
It's unclear to me at this point if I'll have time or not, but chances are I'll probably play 10 before tomorrow night :)

edit: 666 posts :eek:
 
I've got it, playing now :hammer:
Goals:
Buildup military
Determine who our friends are once and for all and commit to that strategy. (With a religion change)
 
Overall there wasn't much to do before I click next turn, naturally, as would be expected following Kylearan. Persepolis is working acouple of grasslands that are unimproved, so I'll divert some workers that way to get some more cottages built. I wake up an axeman in Susa and send him into Ghandi's territory under Open Borders to scout out the defenses there. Only other thing I notice is that we are at 100% science, losing 67 gpt. I am all for defecit research, but I decide to cut our defecit back some and keep some gold around, just in case timely upgrade is needed on the French border (see below).

However, as Ky mentioned it was time for some serious decisions about who to ally with, and the first step in that was the religion decision. After a little deliberation, I decide to immediately revolt to confucianism. Here is my reasoning - Ghandi is our target, so hinduism didn't make too much sense. Both Alex and Hatty are confucianist, and number 3 and 4 in score, respectively. Ghandi is number 2 (after us), but he won't stay there for long, so allying with two relatively distant but strong civs seemed prudent. The most obvious negative is that it will alienate Louis, our next door neighbor. Worst case is that he attacks during the Indian war, which is a eventuality we should prepare for. In any case, the die is cast.

We only have one confucian city, which will start on a missionary as soon as its current build is complete. More on that later.


01_confucian.jpg

Decision is made, for better or worse.

Turn 1 - 800 AD - We enter confucianism, but all our build orders look pretty good. I am not going to revolt to vassalage / organized immediately, opting instead to wait until just before our next units finish building. No point in paying high maintainence for OR if we aren't using it for anything yet. When I revolt to vassalage I will, of course, throw in organized religion.

I agree that the great prophet decision is a toughy. Grabbing Theology is very tempting, although not the most efficient use of a great person (some of the potential is lost due to the cost of Theology, I think). I am torn between a super specialist and waiting for Divine right, and I decide to side with our fearless leader and go for the superspecialist. The earlier a superspecialist is created the more overall benefit is gained, so we'll see how this pans out.

Our axeman scout reveals a longbow in Madras. Catapults will definately be required, especially if he upgrades any archers.


03_madras.jpg

Longbows are catapultastic

Turn 2 - Very quiet turn, as no builds complete. Hatty switches to vassalage. I think that's everyone in vassalage now. It's the deep breath before the plunge...

Turn 3 - A few of the workers are working on increasing our tactical road network connections. Other than that, see Turn 2.

Turn 4 - It's time. lots of units due next turn, so it's time. REVOLT! Vassalage, Organized religion. Obviously, nothing completes this turn. I had a nice screenshot, but Irfanview is giving me some nasty results (in fact, lost some Epic one shots as well). I'll take a pic using the shortcut defined by irfanview, and it'll take a pic, but often missing large portions of the interface (like cities). Any suggestions?

Turn 5 - Remember what I said about the plunge? Louis starts things off by declaring against Victoria!


06_louiswar.jpg

I get the feeling we will see more of this (some of it initiated by us!)

Turn 6 - 2 catapults, 2 war elephants, 1 maceman complete, all with extra experience thanks to vassalage. I'm moving them to Susa to gather for the initial thrust against madras. I notice when the build cues come up that both Tarsus and Arbela don't have barracks yet, and were producing units! Ugh. I start them both on barracks, with serious thought placed into whipping them next turn. See next turn to fins out if I did. Here's my basic idea for this initial thrust: Red dot is staging area, blue dot is bombardment site, and then an attack along yellow line to avoid attacking across the river while maintaining defensive cover.


07_warplans.jpg

Napolean I'm not, but a simple plan is better than no plan!

We are doing well on science in comparison with all except Alexander. He will make a good trading partner, which fortunately fits into our diplomatic strategy.


08_tech.jpg
Future trade material
 
Turn 7 - Ghandi comes to us between turns and demands civil service. Um, no? Don't need to keep him as a friend...


09_ghandi.jpg

The fact that Ghandi is making demands is a little strange, though

I whip a barracks in Tarsus, costing 2 population. Tarsus has happiness to spare, and those two citizens were working unimproved tiles anyway. I hold off on whipping in Arbela, though, as every tile being worked there is quite good. I later whipped it for one population about turn 9 or so.
Turn 8 - Loius asks for help against Victoria:


10_louis.jpg

This one is actually a tough decision

I deliberated for awhile, and came very close to going for his offer. Victoria would never reach us with any units (she'd have to go THROUGH Louis to get to us), so we wouldn't actually have to fight anyway. This would really help our relationship with Louis, helping us breathe a little easier on our eastern border. So why didn't I? Here's why - Hatty is pretty good friends with Victoria, and we've identified her as our friend. It's this extra layer of diplomacy that makes these decisions hard - any decision like this can reverberate through the entire diplomatic situation, and you'll end up at a point where no one likes you. Still, upon further reflection, I think I should have made the effort to keep Louis happy. I guess we'll see if he attacks us or not, which will tell us if the decision was right. There's a lot to learn here!
Tarsus finished its whipped barracks, starts pumping units.

Turn 9 - Engineering comes in, but, of course, we can't build pikes without iron. Another catapult and maceman finish up as well as a confcuian missionary. Here's my plan with the missionary - I move him to Arbela, which is our city furthest away from the battle. This will be a good place to build more missionaries as the supply line is a bit lengthy for the war. I start research on guilds, due in 8. We don't have horses, but can trade for them if we need to and start building knights once that comes in. And, it leads to gunpowder.

Turn 10 - 960 AD - Confucianism spreads in Arbela, as planned. Start a missionary there. Here is our stack, reday to attack soon:


11_stack.jpg

2 War Elephants, 1 maceman, 1 axeman, 2 catapults, with more right behind

The next player should be able to attack in the next few turns with good success.


12_world.jpg

The world!
 
Hi,

very nice turnlog, Snaproll! :goodjob: I should take more screenshots during my turns too...
Regarding Irfanview, I have no troubles with it like you do. But I'm using its in-built screen capture only rarely; most of the time I use print-screen in Civ 4 and paste in Irfanview, only losing the mouse pointer that way. (I use windowed mode by the way; you too?)

Sorry for producing units in no-barracks cities! :blush: Missed that. :smoke:

I think/hope we will be safe from Louis for the time being, as his units are busy elsewhere. Let's hope he will be on the losing end of his war! It would be a pain to face his experienced units from a previous war later...

When we attack Gandhi, we should leave a couple of units in our territory to deal with counter-pillagers. Good call to scout what kind of forces he has!


jameson is up next, but won't be able to play before late monday evening.

-Kylearan
 
Got it again.

My take on starting wars is that you usually need more troops than you think you need, but I'll try and start laying down some snack during my turns.
 
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