Re: Germany. I agree we should not be thinking about attacking them in the short term. But it might be a good idea in the long term. Freddy is a peaceful leader (in Civ), so he won't build up too much military. Also, since Germany was recently created, and has been at war with Rome, it's probably not a very advanced or large civilization, making them easy pickings. I suggest we consider building up a bit after the war to let our economy recover, then make plans to conquer Germany.
Wait...we ARE talking about the "Germany" that LH edited in and placed in the Balkans, right?
Re: Germany. I agree we should not be thinking about attacking them in the short term. But it might be a good idea in the long term. Freddy is a peaceful leader (in Civ), so he won't build up too much military. Also, since Germany was recently created, and has been at war with Rome, it's probably not a very advanced or large civilization, making them easy pickings. I suggest we consider building up a bit after the war to let our economy recover, then make plans to conquer Germany.
Wait...we ARE talking about the "Germany" that LH edited in and placed in the Balkans, right?
Had some arguement. Ilduce wanted a wonderspam policy now even though it was inefficent. The view that everyone else agreed with is below:
A wonder should only be built after civil service. Trying to build NOW is a waste of hammers. Without buarcracy and OR the wonders will take around 40+ turns. If we wait and get the forge as well as the new civics then we get +100% so that cuts all wonder times in half for london.
By that time as well Iberia will be online as a new unit pump. It's nearly better then scotland itself but once the Heroic Epic is finished then that city alone will be able to supply the front lines.
Starting the wonders right now is not a efficiant use of hammers. Better to wait untill the bonus's are in place before doing so. It means we continue to get the most out of theocracy and also means we may be able to change civics with a golden age from Cull later to make them even faster and push through any economic trouble near the end of the war. (NOTE: Cull super spy unit is used entirely at his discresion and anyone wanting this plan would have to play nice and ask him)
-
Details
Assuming London is working at least 2 mines at 4 that gives london a minimum of base 9 as london will get bigger and perhaps whipped down as well we can probably round that to 10 on average
The AP = 400 cost Base london = 10 =40 turns Civic and forge supplied london =20 =20 turns
The Collosus = 250 cost (Double production with copper) Base London = 20 = 13 turns C&F London = 40 = 7 turns
The Great Library = 350 cost (Double production with marble) Base London = 20 = 17 turns C&F London = 40 = 9 turns
University of Sankore = 550 cost (Double production with stone) Base London = 20 = 23 C&F London = 40 = 12
As you can see it's more efficiant to wait untill we change civics.
We can get the 1st tier basic infrastructure now (granery / lighthouse / barracks) but continue to pump units. Once Organised Religion is in place then the 2nd tier infra can be made (forges / markets / libraries / religious buildings) This is also a more efficiant use of
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Overview
London and Scotland are still our most powerful productive cities. For the first half of the term they will continue to pump out units to resupply the front lines. Crossbowmen and catapults are our most advanced units currently while swordsmen will help push through the cities that little bit easier. We also need to resecure the coastlines if the Romans still have ships in the area.
Once Beuracracy is developed we can switch to that and organised religion in the Civics screen. This, along with a forge, will give London +100% to all buildings produced, this includes wonders. Once those civics are implemented then London can become our wonderspammer after the war is flowing in our favour.
At the moment the Wonders most accepted seem to be the Aposalistic Palace & Statue of Zues (to keep out of enemy hands) and the Collosus for its speed and cheap build rate or The Great Library and the University of Sankore. Most seem to be leaning towards wonders that would help the tech rate.. All but one dislikes the SP. (it gives all religious civic options)
Scotland Can be used for smaller wonders or units depending on the circumstances.
Plymouth needs to continue with infrastructure; Granery, lighthouse (perhaps Moia statues..?)
The Domestic Policy: France / Gaul
Spoiler:
Ravus-York is our monetary and religious capital. If it doesn't have one allready it needs a market and a monestary. After that it just continues to pump out missionaries.
Amsterdam needs a walls and a barracks initially as does Antium. As a defensive leader with Stone we can get walls dirt cheap after a whip for 1 turn of production usually.
All three of our gaulish cities are on the front-lines of the war and can thus be used for instant reinforcements depending on the war effort needs, Crossbowmen for Pratorian killing and defence, Catapults for bombardment and mass damage and swordsmen for taking cities. These units can be whip-rushed if neccesary to get out into the field ASAP
Gaul needs improvments but not urgently. For now the main need is to get roads up and running between the three cities to allow troop movement if fast redeployment is needed.
The Domestic Policy: Spain / Iberia
Spoiler:
Iberia is now slowly becoming a powerful area for the British people. The resources have been all connected and most of the initial infrastructure is in place. Most of the cities have barracks and one is going to become the place of our Heroic Epic for fast troop production.
Iberia is well on the way to nearly being on a war footing.
Words from the Iberian Premier Iberia:continue infrastructure (but ONLY with existing Workers), Birmingham builds Heroic Epic and Barracks, Arya-Kent builds units, Cull-Norwich and Birmingham get a Lighthouse.
Make Forges at earliest opportunity (when able to do so / peace)
(the aim is to get these cities online as soon as possible,and these structures are the to-do list,but I'm prepared to give LH operational freedom as far as the order of production goes. (I'd do Forge and Lighthouse first)
The Foriegn Affairs & Peace Policy:
Spoiler:
Europe Rome is to be beaten back. Russia is to be kept wary of, they could declare war at any time. Vikings are back in the war and we can continue to make peaceful overtures to them. Try to convert to Christianity. Germany are very weak and could be nurtured as a peaceful border between us and the hostile Russia. Many wish to develop this relationship into a vassal. The beginings of the english commonwealth. While others wish to conquer them and begin a reign of English Empire. Irish. Many pay no attention to our neighbours. They allready have a army of 10 units and while they could not defeat us they could be a distraction and cause some damage. They are allready Christian and seem to have expanded to the northern cold islands. When able a ship should be sent to check this out. (or a map exchanged with them when map making is secured)
Africa Egyptians are a tech leader and we have allready benifited from one technological exchange. This should be cultivated and the Egyptians made into Christians. This passage can be secured through carthagian territory or through german lands. Carthage is a quiet land. Suspiciously so... But a simple galley bridge can allow missionaires into this land and by walking proceed to their neighbour in egypt. Opinion is split on Carthage as some wish for a friend while others see a future conquered people to expand england into. If thats the case they do not wish to befriend only to backstab. Zulu, This mighty empire is nearly beyond our reach and as another religious founder and leader nearly impossible for us to befriend. Ignore and out pace technologically are the bywords.
Asia Arabians, are they still here? they used to be but may be conquered by now. It is unknown. No plans. Indians. The Score leaders. We are wary of them but willing to have a long distant friend. Allow them control of asia while Britian slowly works to control Europe and maybe Africa. Our first clash would be if we expanded down into the middle east. NOTE: Get better maps to see how large india is...
It has become obvious that the future Foriegn topic will be wether England shall be a Commonwealth of vassals or a empire streching over the ruins of its defeated enemies.
The Technology & Development Policy:
Spoiler:
Technology Cull says : CS-Feud-Guilds-Banks-Gunpowder
His reasons: "Feud to unlock guilds as well as beastly longbows to stop Russia or any enemies just in case, guilds for two moving knights and markets, as well as better workshops, banking for our UU and maybe Merc, and Gunpowder for musketmen."
Arya wishes to squeeze paper into the tech path
His Reasons: "Map trading and university of Sankore wonder. Also opens up future development of education and liberal line"
Tech path options
Civil Service = Allows the buracracy civic and will give us Macemen which will stop any attempt at Pratorian power and allow even greater odds at taking cities.
Paper = Allows map trading and the University of Sankore, a wonder that increase the tech gain of a nation. Allows passage into Education and gunpowder (we are a defensive leader) It also allows us to try to be the first to gain Liberalism.
Compass / Optics = The original path of England would allow us to continue to dominate the seas scouting out new nations across the sea or founding colonies for future development
Divine Right = A New Religion and the wonder the Spiral Minerete which gives us more gold. Useful but currently does not hold much favour.
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Development
The British Isles and Iberia should be mainly converted by now. Focus can thus be turned to France and the Gaulish lands. Roads are of prime importance during the war effort but speed is essential once cities have been captured as workers should quickly advance and make sure that the new city is as self sustainable as possibe.
The Finance & Espionage Policy:
Spoiler:
Put all of our Espionage onto Russia for the inevitable conflict in the future. Cull will spy around the Roman cities trying to find if they have a secondary army anywhere. Once we find it we can try to defeat it on our terms.
Afterwards Cull could be used for a golden age to allow quick civic changes or to espionage bomb the russians to eventually perform actions against them. NOTE: Final decesion will be made by Cull near the end of the war.
The Finance of the nation would be supported by the mass conversion of foriegn people to the Christian belief. Carthage would be focused upon initially for the ease at which we could get into their lands, followed by the Vikings (assuming we still have open borders with them). Both these two nations can be converted while we are at war with Rome. Once the war is over the main two nations to convert are Egypt and The German Nation.
The Military & War Policy:
SpoilerWarplan map :
SpoilerMiltary overview :
This is the current compromise plan put forward. The Original army would heal and resupply before advancing into Germaic lands. It would capture the two main cities, check the minor ones for quick burning then advance south into italy and securing the German Nation / Roman Empire border.
While this was going on the Defensive army in Whosit-Antium would be continuly reinforced with units from Iberia. It is here that any attempts at diplomacy could be attempted. But it is assumed by most that the Roman Nation would be more likely to submit to our enemies which we could not allow.
When it had enough catapults and the original army had healed both forces would advance and try to Blitzerg the remaining Roman Forces. If we advanced too slowly they could submit to foreign powers.
The Vikings have aparantly come back into the war... on which side? Have they attacked Rome, Russia or us?
FINAL NOTES:
Napoleon joined the co-op (Hi welcome)
MN says that i missed something during the Ravus-Cull debaticle i thought i included it under the "shadow wars" chapter of the whosit admin book. What did i miss?
Pictures wanted by the admin (we only have the one up to date picture being used in the war plan)
Pictures MN wants:
Resource trade screen
Each city screen
Any information we can get about how many units are defending Neo and Cumae
Pictures of our land (close enough to see the units and improvements)
Domestic Adviser
Might as well have the tech screen
Gold gained at 0% and lost at 100%
Financial Screen
All Other Advisors
Check if we are paying colonial maintenance on the Continental cities. Just mouse over the maintenance costs and see if there is a "colonial maintenance" cost.
Is that directed at me? Because if you are getting snotty over me missing one post of yours within the hundreds of spam recently i'll get annoyed. Stop spamming and i won't miss anything will i. Not try telling me civil like what i missed instead of just being childish and instantly threatening backstabs without tying to find out wether the action was malicious or innocent!
Ergo: What was your tech path? What were your reasons? Tell me and guess what... i'll put it in the huge policy.
It was a joke ergo the :3. A might have been better I admit.
CS for your reason, feud to unlock guilds as well as beastly longbows to stop Russia or any enemies just in case, guilds for two moving knights and markets, as well as better workshops, banking for our UU and maybe Merc, and Gunpowder for musketmen.
It was a joke ergo the :3. A might have been better I admit.
CS for your reason, feud to unlock guilds as well as beastly longbows to stop Russia or any enemies just in case, guilds for two moving knights and markets, as well as better workshops, banking for our UU and maybe Merc, and Gunpowder for musketmen.
Good lord, how do you people manage to post so damn much without ever saying anything at all? Anyway....
With regards to Germany, I like the vassal plan. We don't need another war right now and the Balkan Germans aren't up to much. Peacefully offer them protection, convert them to Christianity and just try to foster them as trading partners. It's not like they have anywhere to expand to.
Think about all the polititians who say so much without doing anything... (and no, I´m not talking about Obama, at least he´s tried in front of a divided Congress).
With regards to Germany, I like the vassal plan. We don't need another war right now and the Balkan Germans aren't up to much. Peacefully offer them protection, convert them to Christianity and just try to foster them as trading partners. It's not like they have anywhere to expand to.
With regards to Germany, I like the vassal plan. We don't need another war right now and the Balkan Germans aren't up to much. Peacefully offer them protection, convert them to Christianity and just try to foster them as trading partners. It's not like they have anywhere to expand to.
Had some argument. Ilduce wanted a wonderspam policy now even though it was inefficient. The view that everyone else agreed with is below:
A wonder should only be built after civil service. Trying to build NOW is a waste of hammers. Without bureaucracy and OR the wonders will take around 40+ turns. If we wait and get the forge as well as the new civics then we get +100% so that cuts all wonder times in half for London.
I think that wonders are not reasonable ATM. Our economy is in such a bad shape, we'd much rather spend the hammers on libraries. University of Sankore? Maybe...
By that time as well Iberia will be online as a new unit pump. It's nearly better than Scotland itself but once the Heroic Epic is finished then that city alone will be able to supply the front lines.
Wouldn't it be more reasonable to make Ravus-York or Antium a Heroic Epic unit pump city? That way we don't need to waste the several turns we would moving our units across our grand kingdom. How far finished is the HE in Birmingham, LH? (or was it another city?)
Starting the wonders right now is not an efficient use of hammers. Better to wait until the bonuses are in place before doing so. It means we continue to get the most out of Theocracy and also means we may be able to change civics with a golden age from Cull later to make them even faster and push through any economic trouble near the end of the war. (NOTE: Cull super spy unit is used entirely at his discretion and anyone wanting this plan would have to play nice and ask him)
Ditto as above with the wonders, but I strongly agree with the note.
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Details
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As you can see it's more efficient to wait until we change civics.
We can get the 1st tier basic infrastructure now (granary / lighthouse / barracks) but continue to pump units. Once Organized Religion is in place then the 2nd tier infra can be made (forges / markets / libraries / religious buildings) This is also a more efficient use of
Since the war seems to be winding down, I'd rank them like this:
Granary/Library/(Barracks in the cities that are going to be producing units)/(Religious buildings only with Univ. of Sankore)
Lighthouse/Forges/Markets (once we get them)/(Barracks, but not in our English Isle cities, however)
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Overview
London and Scotland are still our most powerful productive cities. For the first half of the term they will continue to pump out units to resupply the front lines. Crossbowmen and catapults are our most advanced units currently while swordsmen will help push through the cities that little bit easier. We also need to re-secure the coastlines if the Romans still have ships in the area.
Agreed. However, like I mentioned above, I think it's better to mostly produce units on the mainland so we don't waste too much time shipping units back and forth from the Isles. How many hills does Antium have? Maybe we could make Antium our powerful hammer city on the mainland.
Once Bureaucracy is developed we can switch to that and OR in the Civics screen. This, along with a forge, will give London +100% to all buildings produced, this includes wonders. Once those civics are implemented then London can become our wonder-spammer after the war is flowing in our favor.
I agree with the civic swaps, but ditto as above with the wonders again.
At the moment the Wonders most accepted seem to be the Aposalistic Palace & Statue of Zues (to keep out of enemy hands) and the Collosus for its speed and cheap build rate or The Great Library and the University of Sankore. Most seem to be leaning towards wonders that would help the tech rate.. All but one dislikes the SP. (it gives all religious civic options)
I consider the UoS and The Great Library to be good options. The rest I don't really think we need for our economy.
Scotland Can be used for smaller wonders or units depending on the circumstances.
Plymouth needs to continue with infrastructure; Granary, lighthouse (perhaps Moia statues..?)
Like I mentioned before, our cities will all need a Granary and Library, and those that will be making units also need a Barracks.
The Domestic Policy: France / Gaul
Spoiler:
Ravus-York is our monetary and religious capital. If it doesn't have one already it needs a market and a monastery. After that it just continues to pump out missionaries.
Do we have a library in RY yet?
Amsterdam needs a walls and a barracks initially as does Antium. As a defensive leader with Stone we can get walls dirt cheap after a whip for 1 turn of production usually.
All three of our Gaulish cities are on the front-lines of the war and can thus be used for instant reinforcements depending on the war effort needs, Crossbowmen for Praetorian killing and defense, Catapults for bombardment and mass damage and swordsmen for taking cities. These units can be whip-rushed if necessary to get out into the field ASAP
Gaul needs improvments but not urgently. For now the main need is to get roads up and running between the three cities to allow troop movement if fast redeployment is needed.
Agree on these three.
The Domestic Policy: Spain / Iberia
Spoiler:
Iberia is now slowly becoming a powerful area for the British people. The resources have been all connected and most of the initial infrastructure is in place. Most of the cities have barracks and one is going to become the place of our Heroic Epic for fast troop production.
I was thinking one of our French cities...
Iberia is well on the way to nearly being on a war footing.
Words from the Iberian Premier Iberia:continue infrastructure (but ONLY with existing Workers), Birmingham builds Heroic Epic and Barracks, Arya-Kent builds units, Cull-Norwich and Birmingham get a Lighthouse.
Same thing with the Heroic Epic. Why are we so intent on it being in Iberia, again?
Make Forges at earliest opportunity (when able to do so / peace)
(the aim is to get these cities online as soon as possible,and these structures are the to-do list,but I'm prepared to give LH operational freedom as far as the order of production goes. (I'd do Forge and Lighthouse first)
I'd do Library ASAP
The Foriegn Affairs & Peace Policy:
Spoiler:
Europe Rome is to be beaten back. Russia is to be kept wary of, they could declare war at any time. Vikingsare back in the war and we can continue to make peaceful overtures to them. Try to convert to Christianity. Germany are very weak and could be nurtured as a peaceful border between us and the hostile Russia. Many wish to develop this relationship into a vassal. The beginings of the english commonwealth. While others wish to conquer them and begin a reign of English Empire. Irish. Many pay no attention to our neighbours. They allready have a army of 10 units and while they could not defeat us they could be a distraction and cause some damage. They are allready Christian and seem to have expanded to the northern cold islands. When able a ship should be sent to check this out. (or a map exchanged with them when map making is secured)
Africa Egyptians are a tech leader and we have allready benifited from one technological exchange. This should be cultivated and the Egyptians made into Christians. This passage can be secured through carthagian territory or through german lands. Carthage is a quiet land. Suspiciously so... But a simple galley bridge can allow missionaires into this land and by walking proceed to their neighbour in egypt. Opinion is split on Carthage as some wish for a friend while others see a future conquered people to expand england into. If thats the case they do not wish to befriend only to backstab.
Friend. And OOC, there is no problem with backstabbing in Civ.
Zulu, This mighty empire is nearly beyond our reach and as another religious founder and leader nearly impossible for us to befriend. Ignore and out pace technologically are the bywords.
Asia Arabians, are they still here? they used to be but may be conquered by now. It is unknown. No plans. Indians. The Score leaders. We are wary of them but willing to have a long distant friend. Allow them control of asia while Britian slowly works to control Europe and maybe Africa. Our first clash would be if we expanded down into the middle east. NOTE: Get better maps to see how large india is...
Get better maps, ahem, GSpy Cull, would you mind? Also, I think we need to get missionaries over to India to attempt to convert them ASAP. (But did they found Hinduism?)
It has become obvious that the future Foriegn topic will be wether England shall be a Commonwealth of vassals or a empire streching over the ruins of its defeated enemies.
Commonwealth!
The Technology & Development Policy:
Spoiler:
Technology Cull says : CS-Feud-Guilds-Banks-Gunpowder
His reasons: "Feud to unlock guilds as well as beastly longbows to stop Russia or any enemies just in case, guilds for two moving knights and markets, as well as better workshops, banking for our UU and maybe Merc, and Gunpowder for musketmen."
Arya wishes to squeeze paper into the tech path
His Reasons: "Map trading and university of Sankore wonder. Also opens up future development of education and liberal line"
Agree with Arya. Paper just unlocks so many other techs.
Tech path options
Civil Service = Allows the bureaucracy civic and will give us Macemen which will stop any attempt at Pratorian power and allow even greater odds at taking cities.
Paper = Allows map trading and the University of Sankore, a wonder that increase the tech gain of a nation. Allows passage into Education and gunpowder (we are a defensive leader) It also allows us to try to be the first to gain Liberalism.
I support this. We don't have the economy to barrel through Compass/Optics.
Compass / Optics = The original path of England would allow us to continue to dominate the seas scouting out new nations across the sea or founding colonies for future development
Divine Right = A New Religion and the wonder the Spiral Minerete which gives us more gold. Useful but currently does not hold much favour.
-
Development
The British Isles and Iberia should be mainly converted by now. Focus can thus be turned to France and the Gaulish lands. Roads are of prime importance during the war effort but speed is essential once cities have been captured as workers should quickly advance and make sure that the new city is as self sustainable as possible.
The Finance & Espionage Policy:
Spoiler:
Put all of our Espionage onto Russia for the inevitable conflict in the future. Cull will spy around the Roman cities trying to find if they have a secondary army anywhere. Once we find it we can try to defeat it on our terms.
After Cull did spying, I was thinking he could go explore. We need to learn more about the world.
Afterwards Cull could be used for a golden age to allow quick civic changes or to espionage bomb the russians to eventually perform actions against them. NOTE: Final decision will be made by Cull near the end of the war.
I think Cull should go explore, but he can do what he wants. We're only switching two civics which is only one turn of anarchy.
The Finance of the nation would be supported by the mass conversion of foriegn people to the Christian belief. Carthage would be focused upon initially for the ease at which we could get into their lands, followed by the Vikings (assuming we still have open borders with them). Both these two nations can be converted while we are at war with Rome. Once the war is over the main two nations to convert are Egypt and The German Nation.
I think we should convert Vikings and Egypt ASAP, then move on with the Germans, who we will hopefully vassal, and Carthage.
The Military & War Policy:
SpoilerWarplan map :
SpoilerMiltary overview :
This is the current compromise plan put forward. The Original army would heal and resupply before advancing into Germaic lands. It would capture the two main cities, check the minor ones for quick burning then advance south into italy and securing the German Nation / Roman Empire border.
Do we need to heal? Also, I think we should make peace as soon as Neo and Cumae are ours.
While this was going on the Defensive army in Whosit-Antium would be continuly reinforced with units from Iberia. It is here that any attempts at diplomacy could be attempted. But it is assumed by most that the Roman Nation would be more likely to submit to our enemies which we could not allow.
When it had enough catapults and the original army had healed both forces would advance and try to Blitzerg the remaining Roman Forces. If we advanced too slowly they could submit to foreign powers.
The Vikings have aparantly come back into the war... on which side? Have they attacked Rome, Russia or us?
They've attacked Rome.
FINAL NOTES:
Napoleon joined the co-op (Hi welcome)
MN says that i missed something during the Ravus-Cull debaticle i thought i included it under the "shadow wars" chapter of the whosit admin book. What did i miss?
I didn't see anything on your forwarding of PMs to Cull, but I may have just missed that, since I was only skimming.
Pictures wanted by the admin (we only have the one up to date picture being used in the war plan)
Pictures MN wants:
Resource trade screen
Each city screen
Any information we can get about how many units are defending Neo and Cumae
Pictures of our land (close enough to see the units and improvements)
Domestic Adviser
Might as well have the tech screen
Gold gained at 0% and lost at 100%
Financial Screen
All Other Advisors
Check if we are paying colonial maintenance on the Continental cities. Just mouse over the maintenance costs and see if there is a "colonial maintenance" cost.
That would be all, I believe. Ravus, do you want to be the Keeper of English Records? I can see you being very good at it with your summarizing skills!
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that gives london a minimum of base 9 
might have been better I admit.
(and no, I´m not talking about Obama, at least he´s tried in front of a divided Congress). 
