Referendum on Scottish Independence

[Commodore]

I'm not sure people get better with age, they seem to get brainwashed. Many perceptive people I knew as teenagers are now complete morons when it comes to political literacy, despite other considerable advances in educational achievement.

Is it that they get brainwashed or that they just stop caring as much as they did when they were younger? I think that as people get older, they just get frustrated with all the BS and just focus more on their own lives than on broader issues they feel they have no control over.

 

[Takhisis]

But if you're a voter you do have control.

 

[Commodore]

But if you're a voter you do have control.

Agreed, but I am talking about the perception that one has no control. That is something I think we are seeing a lot in modern democracies, which overall have seen a steady decline in voter turnout over the past 40 years. I think a lot of that decline has to do with the increasingly popular perception that one's vote "doesn't matter."

 

[Takhisis]

Well, seeing as political parties have effective control over who can run for office and who can't, the sensation is justified.

 

[SeekTruthFromFacts]

Agreed, but I am talking about the perception that one has no control. That is something I think we are seeing a lot in modern democracies, which overall have seen a steady decline in voter turnout over the past 40 years. I think a lot of that decline has to do with the increasingly popular perception that one's vote "doesn't matter."

The perception is the effect, not the cause.

The cause is that Western nations are so rich that it is no longer a necessity for people to take political action to ensure the survival of their family and so liberal that people do not commit to strong opinions that might imply their neighbour's opinions or actions are wrong. The result is disinterest in all kinds of institutions (bowling leagues is the classic example) and especially political ones.

 

[plarq]

The perception is the effect, not the cause.

The cause is that Western nations are so rich that it is no longer a necessity for people to take political action to ensure the survival of their family and so liberal that people do not commit to strong opinions that might imply their neighbour's opinions or actions are wrong. The result is disinterest in all kinds of institutions (bowling leagues is the classic example) and especially political ones.

That reminds me of Fukuyama's "End of History", and Huxley's "Brave New World", where problems are deemed "not important" and "not solvable".

 

[Traitorfish]

tl;dr the sheeple were led astray.

So farewell to the heather in the glen,
They cleared us off once and they'd do it all again,
For they still prefer sheep to thinking men,
Ah, but men who think like sheep are even better!

 

[metatron]

As it turns out said lady may very well be the qunitessential Scottish voter...

Anyway, i want to rant:
I have followed countless elections so far. German ones. American ones. Others.
I've never really bothered with UK elections and have never fully experienced UK election coverage.
That being said: I watched the thing on the BBC and it was the complete and utter manure.
The worst! Seriously, even Fox News has has more intellectual calories in its election coverage.
This was about as sophisticated and informative as the right hand column on the Sideboob Gazette, came with a hideous set of colors of apparently similar inspiration and was about as impartial as my penis.
The worst! Thoroughly disgusting.

 

[Old Hippy]

Is it that they get brainwashed or that they just stop caring as much as they did when they were younger? I think that as people get older, they just get frustrated with all the BS and just focus more on their own lives than on broader issues they feel they have no control over.

go to an anti logging or stop the fracking protest and count all the grannies who voluteeer to get arrested...

or go along to a writers festival and count the oldies listing to an author talking about their books, it is just the middle years when work and kids take up so much time, that one seems to not have the time to get things done...

 

[Arwon]

So basically if it weren't for Scots who remember fighting Hitler, Scotland would be independent now?

 

[Borachio]

Anyway, i want to rant:
I have followed countless elections so far. German ones. American ones. Others.
I've never really bothered with UK elections and have never fully experienced UK election coverage.
That being said: I watched the thing on the BBC and it was the complete and utter manure.
The worst! Seriously, even Fox News has has more intellectual calories in its election coverage.
This was about as sophisticated and informative as the right hand column on the Sideboob Gazette, came with a hideous set of colors of apparently similar inspiration and was about as impartial as my penis.
The worst! Thoroughly disgusting.

Worse, even, than <gasp> Eurovision? (Though I expect the songs were better.)

Yeah. No. I haven't watched any election coverage since I was in my teens. Just wake me up and tell me the result, if you must. Thank you.

"Rah! Rah! Go, Republicans/Democrats! Woot!"

 

[Old Hippy]

So basically if it weren't for Scots who remember fighting Hitler, Scotland would be independent now?

yep...
that they stop caring or are just frustrated or they are just more focused on their own lives, distracted by the BS, assumes that being engaged politically means that one would actually want change

 

[Takhisis]

So basically if it weren't for Scots who remember fighting Hitler, Scotland would be independent now?

It's one of the few things in the shared history of Britain that they can be proud of.

 

[metatron]

Worse, even, than <gasp> Eurovision? (Though I expect the songs were better.)

Actually it was very much like that.

Apparently exit polls are not a thing in Scotland, punidits don't have any clue or any valuably analysis to offer, opinions of the moderaters hover somewhere between drunk disinterest and one-sided contempt and 99.999999% of the broadcast's budget went into some clown dancing around a bunch of 3D animations that were so embarrassingly thin on relevance and information that even CNN would not have used them.
And all that in those hideous, hideous colors...

That, if anything, is pretty much the exact politics tv equivalent of the Eurovision song contest.

 

[Borachio]

The lack of an exit poll in this referendum was exceptional. British elections normally do have them.

They didn't have that Snow guy with his swingometer, did they?

 

[Winston Hughes]

I watched the thing on the BBC

Dear god, what on earth possessed you to watch that? I mean, Sky News is awful (and I object to consuming any News Group product on principle), but it's about a million times better than that steaming heap of crap. The only TV news worth watching in Britain is the Channel 4 News at 6.30 in the evening. If you want decent news coverage from the BBC, stick to the radio.

 

[Mise]

Well, my son, come closer. It may not chime with what you've learned to believe about your own freedom, but that's part of the trick. It's the way the world works, call it 'mean-spirited' if you like, but if you think it's not reality then you should go write a book explaining why the West's large marketing & PR sectors flourish. These are industries that control relatively easily how you react to things even when you are well informed. With the mass media, they control what you are 'informed' about and how you are 'informed'; and you can't criticize, even if you're the smartest person in the world, because you don't know what you don't know. The smartest people will default to thinking 'ah well they might be biased about x', while taking for granting everything else. Cumulatively it is overwhelming, even if you think you can resist it at particular points. At great expense I am well informed about issues like foreign policies and Scotland, but it's not possible to do this for more than a few things.

Of course you're exception. I was waiting for the other shoe to drop.

 

[Borachio]

^ Precisely. Well said, Mr Mise.

But let's be fair; this may be a simple statement of fact:

At great expense I am well informed about issues like foreign policies and Scotland, but it's not possible to do this for more than a few things.

Without any bias.

 

[Tahuti]

I think a lot of that decline has to do with the increasingly popular perception that one's vote "doesn't matter."

You are going to vote in the belief other will make the same vote. Long ago, there was socially influential person who was not directly involved in politics who directed people to vote a certain way. A community leader like a priest or trade union leader. These figures have nowadays been put into the background. One vote by one person is politically impotent, but many votes by one is not.

 

[Pangur Bán]

Of course you're exception. I was waiting for the other shoe to drop.

That's crab-in-the-bucket ghetto talk. Also it's straw man (go re-read my comments).

Is it that they get brainwashed or that they just stop caring as much as they did when they were younger? I think that as people get older, they just get frustrated with all the BS and just focus more on their own lives than on broader issues they feel they have no control over.

Not sure about this. It may be about historic change.

Agreed, but I am talking about the perception that one has no control. That is something I think we are seeing a lot in modern democracies, which overall have seen a steady decline in voter turnout over the past 40 years. I think a lot of that decline has to do with the increasingly popular perception that one's vote "doesn't matter."

It is partly that. But the politics that you get in the media are usually quite peripheral to how the world is run. For those 'interested in politics', the media give you a Punch and Judy show between Tweedledee and Tweedledumb arguing about a few popular tho' insignificant ideas, but almost all actual decisions that affect peoples lives are taken by senior bureaucrats and corporate executives and directors, people who are largely unknown to most journalists let alone the population. For most of the people, engagement with the wider world has shifted from scrutinizing powerful people to following sports and celebrity drama. If they engage with politics it's to legitimize the powerful, to worry about threats of pantomime-like credibility like IS, so that their rulers get legitimacy for completely separate agenda. The ruling classes have arranged the Western masses largely like a farmer arranges his sheep. As the sheep don't look much beyond the other sheep and the dog, it's no surprise that the masses don't look past their own equivalents.