Remember When We Sent In Inspectors, Then Pulled Them Out And Invaded Anyway?

[Pontiuth Pilate]

Looks like we're going to cut out the middleman.

Remember, with this administration, war is always a last resort. Always.

Iran said on Saturday it would allow United Nations inspectors to resume snap inspections of its nuclear facilities, but only if the dispute again went before the U.N. nuclear monitor.

The White House rejected the offer, which apparently came as Iran sought to avoid a full-blown U.N. debate over sanctions.

"Today's statement does not change our position that the Iranian government must give up its nuclear ambitions, nor does it affect our decision to move forward to the United Nations Security Council," said Blaine Rethmeier, a White House spokesman.

Russia, which has steadfastly opposed possible sanctions against Iran, joined the international chorus in telling Iran it must stop nuclear enrichment.

Iran's offer to open itself to nuclear inspections was issued a day after the International Atomic Energy Agency, the U.N. nuclear monitor, confirmed the Iranians successfully produced enriched uranium and had defied the Friday U.N. Security Council deadline to freeze the process.

Iran gave no ground on the enrichment program but offered to reopen it to IAEA inspectors were the Security Council to drop the matter.

"If the issue is returned to the International Atomic Energy Agency, we will be ready to allow intrusive inspections," Mohammed Saeedi, Iran's deputy nuclear chief, told state-run television.

Enriched uranium, depending on the degree of processing, can be used to fuel either civilian power plants or to make nuclear weapons.

While Iran insists it has no plans to make weapons and does not need or want them, the United States, Britain and France suspect the program is aimed at producing nuclear warheads.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov, who did not alter Russia's opposition to sanctions, told his Iranian counterpart, Manouchehr Mottaki, that Tehran must stop enriching uranium and work with the IAEA, according to the Russian Foreign Ministry.

But Saeedi said Iran was pushing forward with further technological developments.

"Our efforts are to use the most sophisticated machines, like in Germany, Netherlands, Japan and Brazil," Saeedi said.

Iran barred intrusive inspections of its nuclear facilities in February after it was referred to the U.N. Security Council for not fully cooperating with U.N. monitors.

Tehran subsequently announced that it had successfully enriched uranium for the first time — a significant step toward large-scale production of nuclear fuel.

 

[ZiP!]

"History repeating herself" ?

 

[Elrohir]

Oh, so now we'll be able to watch them fiddle with uranium while they make nukes. Great; at least we'll know they're about to have nukes a little while before it happens.

How about not. Iran will stop it's nuclear program, or they'll see how much we're bluffing.

 

[A'AbarachAmadan]

Remember When We Sent In Inspectors, Then Pulled Them Out And Invaded Anyway?

I also remember when President Clinton ordered a huge bombing campaign in 1998 because we thought they were lying to inspectors. I think 12 years of messing with inspectors was enough in Iraq. Saddam did himself in by making all the intelligence agencies think he had them; and he did have illegal weapons he said he didn't, such as Scuds and Silkworms.

Iran is a different situation.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Its like some crazy game of blinkmenship.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Remember when the last to screw with us got the heavy end of the hammer? And this time, they even announced they have it to the world. When we make Iran's sand into glass, theres no arguing against it this time.

 

[MobBoss]

Well, if you mean history will repeat itself ala the UN showing how truly powerless it is as it tries to make Iran comply with its demands using a version of harsh language and a rolled up newspaper.

Yeah, considering how effective the UN is, 15 years from now..they might convince Iran to stop if they threaten violence after their 14th resolution (or therebouts).

 

[general_kill]

Bush made a pretty blunder! If only he waited two more years, he could have gone for Iran's oil instead of Iraq's. Then he'll actually have real evidence! Holy cow imagine that, invading a country for their oil with a reason other than the sorry my dog ate my homework excuse we have now.

 

[Sidhe]

Oh, so now we'll be able to watch them fiddle with uranium while they make nukes. Great; at least we'll know they're about to have nukes a little while before it happens.

How about not. Iran will stop it's nuclear program, or they'll see how much we're bluffing.

I am absolutely sure the US cannot afford and does not want war with Iran and I suspect Iran knows it: that said though I'm in the mood to deride Bush so here goes.

Were you not paying attention the first time or are you just very gulible? Honestly how many times does your government have to blow smoke up it's populations arse before it filters up to your brain

People are funny, Bush is a proven liar, why should we believe any decision isn't already made. If Bush has decided to go to war then it is decided and legality and fact are poor companions to the war monger.

Again I'll say: war with Iran would be financial and mortal suicide to the US, the stupidity of involving itself in another land war would send waves of ignorance into the universe that would leave a vaccuum that that could never be filled in a hundred lifetimes, passing aliens within a few hundred light years would become suddenly seemingly inexplicably more stupid, thus I'm hoping this is more who's got the biggest b******s stuff, and not indicative of military action. I bloody hope so even Bush can't be that stupid surely?

I like Black Sabbaths take on things, Cart reminded me about this particular song the other day, it's wonderfuly apt to war mongers.

Generals gathered in their masses
Just like witches at black masses
Evil minds that plot destruction
Sorcerers of death’s construction
In the fields the bodies burning
As the war machine keeps turning
Death and hatred to mankind
Poisoning their brainwashed minds, oh lord yeah!

Politicians hide themselves away
They only started the war
Why should they go out to fight?
They leave that role to the poor

Time will tell on their power minds
Making war just for fun
Treating people just like pawns in chess
Wait ’till their judgement day comes, yeah!

Now in darkness, world stops turning
As the war machine keeps burning
No more war pigs of the power
Hand of God has struck the hour
Day of judgement, God is calling
On their knees, the war pigs crawling
Begging mercy for their sins
Satan, laughing, spreads his wings
All right now!

As a foot note did you know the US supplied Iran with the means to enrich uranium(they sold them the means and parts for enrichment processing plants) It's known it has been doing so for years? Why now are they making a deal about it? Is there more to this than the threat of nukes, are we being sold BS so the US can pump it's pathetic agenda on another nation.

After Bush had finished playing Civ I think his reign of incompetence would leave him being compared to Dan Quayle, but that would be too much of a complement, I think I know now what it's like to truly despise a person and his policies.

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

I also remember when President Clinton ordered a huge bombing campaign in 1998 because we thought they were lying to inspectors. I think 12 years of messing with inspectors was enough in Iraq. Saddam did himself in by making all the intelligence agencies think he had them; and he did have illegal weapons he said he didn't, such as Scuds and Silkworms.

Iran is a different situation.

I think I'll mention that Silkworms are anti-ship missiles and are not illegal. They are just Iraqi copies of old Russian Styx missiles. In 1991 they were technically obsolete.

 

[ZiP!]

As a foot note did you know the US supplied Iran with the means to enrich uranium(they sold them the means and parts for enrichment processing plants) It's known it has been doing so for years? Why now are they making a deal about it? Is there more to this than the threat of nukes, are we being sold BS so the US can pump it's pathetic agenda on another nation.

This is partly what I meant by "history repeating itself". Just like you played with Ben Laden a coupla years ago.

The funny thing is you say "you don't negociate with terrorists". True. You only give them weapons, gas masks, and the plans to go take the hostages. (with all due respect to 9/11 & London tragedy victims).

Put a dictator in power then claim his country is un-democratic to go get their oil...
You know, I think it works a bit like Nonconfomist described it in his post on Joseph Mengele. Those dictators are truly disturbed individuals. But If you leave them alone and show them the stick every once in a while it works well. Now if you begin to mess with them...

I foresee answers coming : you're gonna tell me that the US didn't give the technology to Iran. Might be true, I'm no politic sciences expert. But for Ben Laden, it's sure he got support from the US when he was a way to annoy the soviet union. That's what you get for growing 'eager fighting dogs', one day or another they turn on you and tear your arm off, and not even necessarily for an apparent reason.

 

[YNCS]

If Bush thinks that the U.S./Britain can invade Iran then he's even more stupid than I already knew him to be. Hasn't anyone explained to Bush that the troops just aren't available?

 

[A'AbarachAmadan]

I think I'll mention that Silkworms are anti-ship missiles and are not illegal. They are just Iraqi copies of old Russian Styx missiles. In 1991 they were technically obsolete.

Just assumed most folks knew what a Silkworm is, but under a UN resolution Iraq wasn't allowed to have Silkworms, hence illegal for Saddam. When he aimed a Silkworm at Camp Doha (conjectured in newspapers) and hit a Kuwaiti mall (well, the dock nearby, blowing out all the windows in the mall 100 yards away; definately awoke anyone sleeping at Camp Doha as our alarms immediately sounded and it really freaked some folks out since the warnings always occured before the booms - if it had hit the walls of Camp Doha I may not be typing this now as my sleep area, which I rarely saw but happened to be in at the time, was right next to the most likely impact point, so obsolete is relative to me) it was all over the local (Kuwaiti) papers about Saddam's first use of a banned weapon. They were allowed to have scuds, but not the kind they actually used (enhanced range, accuracy and payload - yea for Patriot IIIs!!). A few days later it was about a banned scud type in the Kuwaiti newspapers. Since the rest of the world was focused on WMD I'm sure it was little more than a footnote in news in the EU and US that he was using banned weapons, but at that time my primary news sources were the Intel folks next to me and Al Jazerra so I don't know what was being reported in the West.

 

[Sidhe]

This is partly what I meant by "history repeating itself". Just like you played with Ben Laden a coupla years ago.

The funny thing is you say "you don't negociate with terrorists". True. You only give them weapons, gas masks, and the plans to go take the hostages. (with all due respect to 9/11 & London tragedy victims).

Put a dictator in power then claim his country is un-democratic to go get their oil...
You know, I think it works a bit like Nonconfomist described it in his post on Joseph Mengele. Those dictators are truly disturbed individuals. But If you leave them alone and show them the stick every once in a while it works well. Now if you begin to mess with them...

I foresee answers coming : you're gonna tell me that the US didn't give the technology to Iran. Might be true, I'm no politic sciences expert. But for Ben Laden, it's sure he got support from the US when he was a way to annoy the soviet union. That's what you get for growing 'eager fighting dogs', one day or another they turn on you and tear your arm off, and not even necessarily for an apparent reason.

Why is it only non politicians advocate a softly softly catchy monkey approach to dictators? That's all I can say, you mess with a hornets nest don't be surprised when it stings you in the arse.

No it's true most of the technology and some of the parts they have are US sponsored, begs the question of whether they gave them them to make war or not. In fact as is more likely those in power are just twisted idiots.

 

[eyrei]

Well, Bush only has until the end of the year before he loses the ability to declare war on anyone for any reason because noone trusts him but his party members. Once the republicans lose control of congress he will be kept from doing anything at all that requires the support of congress.

To be honest, I doubt he would have support for an invasion of Iran even now. He may try to claim it is part of the war on terror and that he already has the authority, and then we will get a nice, long impeachment proceeding...

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

Just assumed most folks knew what a Silkworm is, but under a UN resolution Iraq wasn't allowed to have Silkworms, hence illegal for Saddam. When he aimed a Silkworm at Camp Doha (conjectured in newspapers) and hit a Kuwaiti mall (well, the dock nearby, blowing out all the windows in the mall 100 yards away; definately awoke anyone sleeping at Camp Doha as our alarms immediately sounded and it really freaked some folks out since the warnings always occured before the booms - if it had hit the walls of Camp Doha I may not be typing this now as my sleep area, which I rarely saw but happened to be in at the time, was right next to the most likely impact point, so obsolete is relative to me) it was all over the local (Kuwaiti) papers about Saddam's first use of a banned weapon. They were allowed to have scuds, but not the kind they actually used (enhanced range, accuracy and payload - yea for Patriot IIIs!!). A few days later it was about a banned scud type in the Kuwaiti newspapers. Since the rest of the world was focused on WMD I'm sure it was little more than a footnote in news in the EU and US that he was using banned weapons, but at that time my primary news sources were the Intel folks next to me and Al Jazerra so I don't know what was being reported in the West.

Are you referring to their use of Silkworms in the current war or the 1991 war? If the former, I can definitely understand how they'd be banned and 100% retract my former statement.

 

[BasketCase]

Saddam played the shell-game with UN inspectors for more than a decade. Successfully. Now Iran is playing the same game.

We're about to find out if the UN has learned anything. If you want to have a chance at poker, you have to know how to call a bluff.

 

[blackheart]

Saddam played the shell-game with UN inspectors for more than a decade. Successfully. Now Iran is playing the same game.

And surprisingly, it turned out Saddam didn't have anything.

We're about to find out if the UN has learned anything. If you want to have a chance at poker, you have to know how to call a bluff.

What do you expect Iran's bluff be called with?

 

[A'AbarachAmadan]

Are you referring to their use of Silkworms in the current war or the 1991 war?

In the 2003 conflict. Although it exploded a couple miles away, it was as loud as an anti-personnel mine about 50 yards away would sound.

 

[JohnRM]

I don't trust Iran, but I don't trust the US Government, either. Unfortunately, its the common citizen of both Iran and[/i[] the US that is going to get hosed; the Iranian citizens moreso.