Replay #8 4 µ m8s <3

[Seraiel]

Hi .

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Yes. What I said, is, you, are reading the latest episode of my writeup-series "Replay" . You either know this series already because you read the previous writeups, or you're just here by accident, possibly because you clicked on the link in my signature and read "Deity HoF Writeups" and thought "WTH" :>

Doesn't matter, welcome.

What matters, is, that with reading this, you are reading the beginning of a writeup, that will top all other writeups I've made so far. It's possible, that it's gonna be the last writeup of any CIV game I'll ever make, this, depends.

It depends, on you, providing any feedback to this, and it depends on me, ever getting to play any round, that could even come close, to what you're going to read in the followup.

In short: This round, is the absolute and and most unbelivable amazing and utterly awesome round I ever played. You and I, will be magnetized and frightingly fascinated reading about it, from the beginning until the last post! This round, will sum up everything I have learned about CIV up until now, you'll see me making 0 mistakes that could have been prevented by greater knowledge. You'll see me playing at a level that I never had before, and if you know me, you know that I'm very honest, and that this is neither hot air, nor that it is as narcistic as it sounds, but that it's simply incredible, unbelievable and so unlikely, that one has to play as many rounds for this to happen, as only very few have even played.

If you have no idea about what to expect, these are the things to rely on:

Map size: Huge
Game speed: Epic
Chosen victory type: Conquest!
Civilization: China!
Difficulty level: Deity

I won't spoil the time of the victory, I have already (in different threads) , so you'll have to look for those, if you want to know now, or, you'll simply have to wait for the update tomorrow .

At this point, you should actually be excited and / or curious enough, but to just make it a little more interesting: There are exactly 3 games in the HoF that have comparable finish dates, and I'm not really sure if those games are good for comparisons at all, because they use vastly different settings (Permanent Alliances, Classical Start, Normal Game Speed, Raging Barbs, stronger leaders, one time different map type) , but the players of those games will tell us, as they're absolute experts:

Their names are: Kovacsflo, Tachywaxon and Kaitzilla.

I'm sure, I have to introduce neither of them to you, because you all will now, but FYI:

I'm sure, I don't have to introduce neither of them to you, because you all will now, but just in case, and because people not regularly visiting these forums may read: Kovacsflo is a scientist, and he's the specialist for Huge maps and Raging Barbs, Tachywaxon is a shape-shifter and the greatest base of knowledge in these forums, and Kaitzilla is a friendly monster, that's harmless to humans, but eats Deities for breakfast. :>

--------------------------

End of the beginning.

Seraiel

 

[Kaitzilla]

Woo, another replay game!

Yes, Deity flakes for breakfast. 2 scoops

 

[Manco Capac]

Wut were is Kaitzilla screenshots fighting grumpy cat?

 

[Manco Capac]

No, I meant Ponyzilla.

 

[Manco Capac]

Yes, I know that she's a she, but it'd be wrong to think that girls can't play, there are i. e. "Play-mates" , which is the female form of a Pro-gamer

Uh you meant he right???!!!!11

 

[Manco Capac]

Get outta there facking lil bro. This is mah account.

====================================

On a serious note. *drugs effect*
Seraiel, as I said, you shouldn't be surprised by the lack of comments.
Civ4 community is dying. Like me, you hit the downfall of the community when you arrived, which is in an exodus period towards other new games.

Myself I have troubles to get minimum attention from the Tourette community. Strongly disappointing most of the time, especially when it is time to get serious a bit (like playing strategically and think that way too), but I kept on. Perhaps I'm at my limit combined with limited time. You can grasp quickly what kind of answers I get for efforts invested (not that I compare to yours because yours is definitely much stronger into a game). If you want to look at it, but you shouldn't because it shows I'm pretty corrupted player nowadays.

Nevertheless, it's pretty mind-boggling how I got more views than your last write-up (especially in a subforum where desertion is far more imposed), chiefly when knowing your past ones were exploding in popularity.

Also, note that most of the community (the remaining 90% you don't see and claiming the status of lurker) is pure essence of laziness. I mean there is a reason why they are still lurking man! I have gotten friction with these kind of people recently since I'm strolling elsewhere than the typical HoF, SGOTM, Civ4 Discussion and S&Tips and gosh the laziness is at the ceiling and over 9000. Almost unbearable to me when they could be better with 10-30 more seconds invested.
And lurker defines someone who takes and gives nothing in return.

The ones you are expecting to answer are sadly fleeing the forums.

Now, regarding the presentation, it's fine. But cut a bit the praises. For I, it makes me blush, especially when I have practically made nothing recently due to huge time restrictions. And just got a new level now.

But the funny imagery! DON'T. That's what makes something runs. Oh yeah. If you want to get attention from new people, like lurkers, bring forth those funny depiction of yours like Godzilla vs fur(r)y cat (bad pun lol). That works immensely in your favor. Sadly, funny overhauls anything. Sadly. I have seen crap stories from that cursed subforum getting more applauded (and it's rare I say that) than good and well-researched ones just because of the random factor combined to funny. Yes, funny is a strong element that excuses everything and also overhauls it...AND attracts lazy people to comment. Their comments are cheap and lazy, but that attacts views and gigantic views attract more of them and it's the snowball effect. And those people you wished for to comment will come by asking themselves what's going on there.

An example: Kossin passed by some succession game of mine on some mod. Of course, he didn't comment for long because it's not his stuff, but the attractive factor of individuals(deity) plus the explosive comment counts plus views attracted his attention.

Anyways, that's my comment and I don't see how to help you more. People are elusive these times. I took time to answer you properly because I was neglectful recently. Trying to MM my own time often leads to cut.

 

[Seraiel]

I now get it... Tachywaxon is a multiuser-account... I knew, that there was no way one person could be so active and get so many posts while posting so much to the people's profiles...

@ Tachywaxon:

I have no idea why you're posting in that forums. Your answer in this thread, is worth more, than all answers that you got in total in the thread you linked. That one guy is repeating the same sentence over and over, showing he's somewhat ********, while the other one is spamming like he was happy that there is no lid / cover / closure head, for his inexpressiveness. In all honesty, but the only answers that have any value at all in that thread, come from the users that extra registered because of it, which is a huuuuuuge achievement of yours, and what makes me sad, is how that , that's repeating the same sentence over and over scares them of.

I openly admit, that I'm having my problems with reading your posts too, and that the reasons why I make it, are, because I know you're extraordinarily talented, unchallangeable wise, because you're the person in these forums that has more to offer than anybody else, and because you always were a friend. I'd be lame, to say something towards you like "don't feel bad, you're not responsible for being french" , so I'll fight myself through that thread, of which I didn't know that it even existed, and be the first to give you what you asked for. That will either set an example, or, if those 2 toasts ruin it further, I'll show my dark side again :> .

Apart from that: I don't care for 100 stupid people leaving a comment, and you also shouldn't. This thread is titled "4 µ m8s <3" , and you normally should be able to understand that. This thread is "pour mes amies et derriere et un coeur" . Kossin is a friend of mine, but if he wasn't, I would spend no thought towards him and not even care one bit, and I'm immune to thinking like "oh, that person is blah" , because my parents already thought like that, and I was the one changing it in them already, because thinking like that, it leads to hipocricy due to feeling inferior, or to arrogance and disregard, because of the opposite. Don't care about the idiots Tachy, you've got friends, and even without them, all that matters is what you think of yourself.

And at last:

I share your feeling that being funny is overrated, but as as there are posts already refering to this, here is what I had written, before finding that this would be too silly for a game that's really as good as I described it:

Spoiler :

--------------- Introduction Version 1.1 -------------------

Their names are: Kovacsflo, Tachywaxon and Kaitzilla.

I'm sure, I have to introduce neither of them to you, because you all will now, but just in case, and because people not regularly visiting these forums may read: Kovacsflo is a scientist. Yes, he's got the signature "the wisest men follow their own direction" , and yes, we all know that Compass is a crap-tech, but, he is the specialist for Huge maps and Raging Barbs. He took the title of Quattromaster from the master of timewaste lately, which is a huge achievement, but since then, little of him was heard. Tachywaxon is a shape-shifter and the greatest base of knowledge in these forums. Yes, I know that she's a she, but it'd be wrong to think that girls can't play, there are i. e. "Play-mates" , which is the female form of a Pro-gamer, and Tachywaxon, as a shape-shifter can take any form she wants. She could even take the form of Kaitzilla, and this monster, eats deities. Don't believe me? Here, see:

Kaitzilla in den fight with Cat-herine.

Here, you can see how that cat attacked a city, and that Kaitzilla was only trying to defend.

Kaitzilla on the afterfight party, smiling for the camera:

--------------- Introduction Version 1.1 -------------------

But, what Tachywaxon didn't knew, when asking me to post this, is, that because she had no time to read version 1.1 in time, and because I was fataly bored...

I also wrote a version 1.2 It's only 1 more picture, but if I'm already forced to publish this , then I'll publish it in full. Here it is:

Spoiler :

--------------- Introduction Version 1.2 -------------------

You still need more proof?

Ok. Tachywaxon and Kaitzilla, are actually friends. Here is a picture of them, being on shopping-tour:

Kaitzilla is hanging back, because he has to carry the bags. The picture clearly proves, Tachywaxon has no problem carrying bags!

I hope that you're happy now :> .

Seraiel

 

[Kaitzilla]

Nice Pictures!

 

[Dubioza]

Common, where is it? I need it, I want it!

Nice intro, btw....wow Tachy

 

[Seraiel]

@ Kai: You like being remembered of the day where you had to carry Tachywaxon bags? That's impossible, tell, what also happened on that day? Was there a tech in the hut, or what?

@ Dubioza: Tachy's shape-shifting skills are truely amazing. No man could notice her in that cow-form near to that real plains-Cow that's on the same tile as the Woodsman Warrior is, but I think of her today, I find that Tachywaxon should transform to icecream, because then, she'd just be so much cooler... Come on' Tachy, for yourself, take the form of icecream...

 

[lymond]

That picture of Kait and Tachy is hilarious. Kait, stop staring!

 

[Seraiel]

Edited some posts. I'm amazed how resilient I am to change after aknowleging something over and over already.

Now bring that update Shulec, so I can post the next part .

You're also µ m8, so don't make me remember what stupidity I sometimes write, give me a chance to write more to get over it and finally get better again.

S.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Enough of this flashy introductory stuff. Although the pictures are quite good; who doesn't like Godzilla and kittens? Let's get on with the main attraction ...

Let's please see a screenshot of the start and a full list of map and option settings.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Seraiel]

LOL STW.

Ok. Here's the 1st part of the writeup. I hav not proof-read it yet, and not worked it over yet, so at your own risk!

(Link towards game for those wanting to have a look at the saves. )

For comparison and for completeness, here are also links towards the games by the players that I mentioned in the introduction:

kovacsflo Huge / Epic
kovacsflo Huge / Normal
Tachywaxon Huge / Normal
Kaitzilla Huge / Normal

Marathon games are obviously out of the league, because Marathon has a completely different scaling. Incan games obviously also aren't, and smaller maps could be used for comparison purposes, but the games on Large maps actually have so much slower winning dates, that again, out of league, and even smaller maps, like a normal one, again would be really hard to compare, because Standard / Normal again is vastly different from Huge / Epic.

Now regarding my game:

I already told you, this post would informative, so let's begin with the opponents I chose and why I chose them. As in previous Replays, I've created a picture of them for you:



Now that screenshot already reveals a lot of the setting. If you have questions about the AIs in general, there is this guide, that basically will explain everything you want to know about certain AIs. Guess about the authors of it :> .

I promised, to share all my knowledge and everything I've learned up until today in this Replay, so what I've got to add, would first be an answer to "why 2 good AIs towards 1 bad AI" . Answer is very simple: Bad AIs build usually more units, so they can "tank" more than 1 good AI. Why good and bad AIs at all, should actually be obvious, because, as it relates to the type of chosen victory. When playing for conquest, one basically wants the AIs to hate and fight each other for as much as possible, as it'll refrain them from getting large numbers of units or becoming techonolocially dominant, as an AIs tech-rating when being in war, is lowered significantly, and if AIs destroy each other freely, it's of course the best situation to pick out single one's, backstab them, and conquer their cities.
Basically, I of course chose the best possible setting for my aim of creating a really good game, so I i. e. left out all AIs with high unit build rates, all CRE or PRO AIs, and yes, I didn't even choose Mansa, because in this round, I want the teching-speed to be as low as possible, to give me the largest timeframe for attacking with Cho-Ko-Nu's. More about Cho-Ko-Nu's and China as a Civ later, because:

In before, we have to deal with the other map-settings:



Answers again are very simple. This, is the configuration for the least possible available land. Terra basically already cuts the map in half, as AI will usually not be able to reach Astronomy in a HoF Conquest game. Ok, in this game AI will, because it's a Huge map, and Huge Terra is still, well, about the biggest map there is . Anyhow, cold-climate and high sealvl already reduce it significantly, I think tororidal also does slightly, so even with 2500 population count, this is still the smallest Huge map I could get .
There are some further settings that are not shown on the screen, like of course, no Vassal States, I cannot take vassals on my own, so I can choose the AI not to be able to too. No City Razing is not required with China as a leader, as the time at which I'll attack will be far beyond the time where cities could get auto-razed. My past experiences with AGG-AI weren't too good, so I left that one out too, there's also nn for Barbs, definately not for raging ones, but, yes:
Permanent Alliances. That's a setting I most likely should have taken. I admit, that I didn't look closely enough at with which settings the best Conquest games were played, and as this was only the 2nd map I played with these settings (1st one was with AGG-AI) , I couldn't know that this game would take all up until Communism. I thought that "if I get a really good game, I'll be able to end it before Astronomy" , and that rules out Communism too, but just because I wasn't just so 100% sure, and just so super-self-confident, I didn't uncheck Goody Huts, as I thought "if I'm wrong with this, the only chance I'll really have to get Astronomy fast and cheap, is finding it in a hut" . I know, Astronomy from a hut is ridiculous, but I wasn't the programer of that game, so if I already play Terra and there will be Huts, why not send out a Scout on a Galley to look for it. Wouldn't hurt, right?

Well, then there is one thing that remains:

The leader:



This, imo was an obvious choice. People arguing that Mao is the stronger one of the two, imo have no idea about the strength of IND. EXP is a decent trait, 1-pop-Granaries are great, cheaper Workers are, well, ok, but seriously, IND makes building Wonders just so much easier, and especially in this game, Wonders would be a great possibility to at least make some money. I'll have to pay the maintenance for a Huge empire, it's almost impossible I won't get Stone and Marble, and getting Oracle and Mids easier is also worth something, so if not always, in this game, QSH definately is the stronger of the 2 leaders

Regarding China as a Civ: China is decent, Agri + Mining are very good starting techs, and the Cho-Ko-Nu is below the better ranked UUs. No doubt, China is neither Egypt, nor Rome, and having to get Machinery somehow, a tech that should normally not be researched under any circumstances because Elephants are a lot better than XBows, not ideal, but Cho-Ku's are still very decent. Collateral is the strongest form of damage, and best of all, because China is PRO, they're able to get the most important 2nd promotion from Barracks only. The additional Firststrikes also don't hurt, and just to get this right: This game is good. It's really really good, but it's not the best game existing. Tachywaxon's, kovacsflo and Kaitzilla's games are on the same map-size and they're on higher speed. They did chose Permanent Alliances, but I cannot get pitty for my own failiure, and that's really all I can say towards my defense. China isn't Rome, and it's most definately not Egypt.

You'll be amazed by what you're going to read in the following, this is still all educational introduction, because I promised to do so, and I hope that you found it at least interesting. If not, go simply back to Tachywaxon, and ask her, why she let's Kaitzilla carry the bags, while she'd look like not having any problems carrying those herself .

 

[Seraiel]

And because already asked by STW:

The start!



Really nice, isn't it? Not .

1 Gold, 3 Floodplains, Stone, and a source of Food that's not on my path of research towards Machinery. I won't argue, that the start is not good for a normal game, but for a HoF approach? Plz, agree with me that this start is below average Standard for HoF is 2 Lux 2 Food, and most time's that means 2 Gold 2 Wet Corn. WastinTime plays different starts with Incans, but seriously, the only thing Incans need are to build the inital force of Checkers that conquers the next 3-4 capitals.

Here is the start after I settled it, nothing popped up:



Just like I said. 1 Gold, 3 almost-Foods, Stone, and one Food resource that requires me to research an expensive tech on my path towards Machinery.

Will wait for your answers on this before I'll write any further, as I'm sure that this will cause some comments.

And: I need a break. I'm awake since almost over 20h already, this is tearing me apart. It's not that I was tired, it's words making me feel pain, and I have no idea on why. I hope that this, as always, won't or hasn't already transfered.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Two great introductory posts about the game, Seraiel!

It inspires me to try Qin Shi Huang on a Deity Domination or Conquest game sometime soon.

Looking forward to future chapters of your replay!

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

This is not a great start, except it does have 13 BFC forests and maybe 6 Ring 3 forests (any start with at least 12 forests in the BFC and Ring 3 is a reasonable amount); Think of chopping at least some of these forests with Bureaucracy+Forge+<Organized Religion or Police State>. In my opinion, a start for HoF game should have a minimum of two Gems/Gold plots and irrigated Corn. Researching Animal Husbandry to improve Pigs is unfortunate, but in the absence of a better start it is acceptable. I'd prefer to have seven floodplains which causes 7 x 0.4 = 2.8 = 2 unhealthiness; early cottages on that number of floodplains will provide an awesome commerce rate in addition to the gold mine which itself requires two worked floodplains cottages to support. 3 x 0.4 = 1.2 = 1 unhealthiness; four floodplains would be better as this is 4 x 0.4 = 1.6 = 1 unhealthiness.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Kaitzilla]

No Aggressive AI setting?

Guess your warrior should go hut hunting then


Worker stealing is almost too dangerous to attempt against any Diety AI without that setting. They won't talk peace most times.


Capital looks very nice. Animal Husbandry first? Maybe Bronze Working?

If you are surrounded on every side by Deity AI, maybe archery? Even that might not save you


The special effect's budget on these are always so huge. Tachywaxon themed ice cream oh yes.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

No Aggressive AI setting?

...

Worker stealing is almost too dangerous to attempt against any Diety AI without that setting. They won't talk peace most times.

That can't be the only reason you like to use Aggressive AI. More importantly, Aggressive AI slows down the AIs research rate. That is the reason that all the great peaceful Deity games have Aggressive AI selected.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Kaitzilla]

That can't be the only reason you like to use Aggressive AI. More importantly, Aggressive AI slows down the AIs research rate. That is the reason that all the great peaceful Deity games have Aggressive AI selected.

Sun Tzu Wu

It is the main reason for me. Being able to steal workers and start and stop a war practically at will is so strong. It is the wars you can't stop that really kill you dead.


The constant AI-AI wars are really nice too to slow down teching of course.

Even 1 war bribe usually fuels multiple wars from dogpiles and such.