REPUBLICAN DEBATE SEPT 05, 2007 (Full Poll)

Who won the debate?

  • Congressman Tom Tancredo

    Votes: 1 1.8%
  • Congressman Ron Paul

    Votes: 24 43.6%
  • Fmr. Governor Mike Huckabee

    Votes: 7 12.7%
  • Fmr Mayor Rudy Guliani

    Votes: 2 3.6%
  • Fmr Governor Mitt Romney

    Votes: 1 1.8%
  • Senator John McCain

    Votes: 2 3.6%
  • Senator Sam Brownback

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Congressman Duncan Hunter

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Don't Know/Nobody

    Votes: 18 32.7%

  • Total voters
    55
I don't know, but I'd ask for my money back.

You're so full of crap, downtown. You may not want to it be socialism, cause you support it, and you don't want to be labeled a socialist, but that is the case and you're going to have to accept that fact. Otherwise, you're just fooling yourself.
 
If I were a Republican, I'd probably be a Huckabee man.

But, I didn't catch that debate. Somehow, as wonkish and nerdish as I am about politics, I forgot there was one today. And no, Everybody's New Reagan Lord Fred Thompson didn't distract me.
 
The number of Ron Paul supporters indicates (to me at least) how out of touch with reality CFC OT folks are.

There is no way he is going to win.

I found that odd too. Not only wont he win but if you listen to what he wants he loco.
 
You're so full of crap, downtown. You may not want to it be socialism, cause you support it, and you don't want to be labeled a socialist, but that is the case and you're going to have to accept that fact. Otherwise, you're just fooling yourself.

i'm a socialist because I support taxation? Guess you are too...with all those people taking citizen money, and spending it on things like roads and the military...taking money from one place and putting it somewhere else...

Seriously. If you're going to talk about grown up stuff, and use grown up words, find out what they mean first.
 
He lost his face. I couldn't believe Huckabee was repeating that nazi-line that "we germans are one, whatever our policy makers do, we must stand as one and bare the mistakes of our leaders" Ron answered with the best arguement-- US is a constitutional representative republic; if Americans think their leaders aren't doing a good job and keep stubbornly insisting on flawed policy, they can vote new leaders with new policies.
Strawman argument. Just because the Nazis said something doesn't mean it's wrong.
Well, continued US presence there would probably result in further instability. Continued, imposed neoliberal policies certainly will.
And a US exit would result in even worse instability. You need to admit to yourself that it would be a catastrophe if we leave, because it will be. The only question now is whether the catastrophe would be worth it.
The organizations is corrupt and terrorist
We need an underhand. Every government does. Someone has to do icky things to prevent terrorism. Hell, I wish we had a better Black Ops program.
Several hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have died as a result of the war of aggression waged against their nation
Irrelevant. This has no bearing on whether or not leaving now would cause more deaths than staying would.
Also, the overwhelming majority of Iraqis want US out. If you have any respect for their self-determination and for democracy, you'd withdraw.
I don't have any respect for the self-determination of people who are attempting to make an incorrect decision.
 
Strawman argument. Just because the Nazis said something doesn't mean it's wrong.

However, it is wrong. The United States people as a whole did not make the mistake, thus the United States people as a whole are not obligated to correct that mistake.

Now, if you want to argue it from a humanitarian perspective, then I can understand why you'd think the USA has an obligation to stay in. But arguing that we must stay as a nation due to a subset of our population doing the initial entering is silly.
 
i'm a socialist because I support taxation? Guess you are too...with all those people taking citizen money, and spending it on things like roads and the military...taking money from one place and putting it somewhere else...

Seriously. If you're going to talk about grown up stuff, and use grown up words, find out what they mean first.

You know what I'm talking about. Don't play dumb with me. It is not simply about taxation, but about forcing others to foot most of the bill for things that we all use and while others pay almost nothing. We all benefit, but some pay far more than most others. Therefor, you are essentially taking from those that have it and giving it to those that have not. You know, look at it however you want. Its not right and its socialism.
 
However, it is wrong. The United States people as a whole did not make the mistake, thus the United States people as a whole are not obligated to correct that mistake.

No, its not wrong. In fact, it is very pertinent. The representatives duely elected by the United States people did decide on this course of action...both partys. The old adage, united we stand, divided we fall, is just as true today as it was the first day it was ever uttered.
 
No, its not wrong. In fact, it is very pertinent. The representatives duely elected by the United States people did decide on this course of action...both partys. The old adage, united we stand, divided we fall, is just as true today as it was the first day it was ever uttered.
Great. Join the majority that want us out and quit dividing us.
 
I might be able to refute that someday, but it is currently beyond my power.

Its beyond the power of anyone who's rational because the hard cold fact is that the income tax is legal.

Its one thing to debate a national sales tax vs. an income tax. Fine. An interesting proposition. But in my book you loose all credibility when you start trotting out the lunatic-fringe "there is no legal right to tax income" crap.
 
The real issue here is that most people know what the framers meant, but some pretend otherwise, because they are socialists/communists. It is the same thing as with the 2nd Amendment. People want to pretend that, because the word 'militia' is included in the amendment that the organized militia is the only body that firearms were meant to be available to, but that is not the case. It doesn't really matter. The income tax is what it is, it is wrong in my opinion, and nothing is going to change, in this country. The income tax exists to feed the Federal Reserve, and since they hold a monopoly on power in this country, short of armed revolution, that power is never going to be overturned.

Good lord, do you believe in the Gnomes of Zurich, too?

At one point, early on, there was an interesting discussion in this thread, but then it became apparent that the real motivation here is the old "gova'ment got no right to tax me" stuff.

You even got an "armed revolution" shout-out in there! Nicely done. TOBY KEITH APPROVES!
 
I did question the moderator who asked the "marching order from Al Qaeda" question's motives in his phrasing

I didn't hear the debate (nor do I want to), but I did read part of the transcripts. That question was pathetic. Its akin to the old "when did you stop beating your wife" set-up. I've seen Chris Wallace use similarly cheap tactics in other interviews.

....Thomas Jefferson (if I recall correctly, I might not) for example, advocated very progressive taxes and you can understand why...

1. You're never gonna win any economic argument by quoting Jefferson. He was brilliant, if not a genius, at almost everything in life EXCEPT economics.
2. I'm pretty sure you're confusing him w/ someone else anyway. It wouldn't surprise me if it was Hamilton given his belief in protective tariffs, subsidies, national bank, bounties, etc...

The FF's didn't really consider the idea of income taxes. So, you can't really try and attach them to one side or the other in terms of a view on the very specific issue of yes/no on income taxes.
 
I didn't hear the debate (nor do I want to), but I did read part of the transcripts. That question was pathetic. Its akin to the old "when did you stop beating your wife" set-up. I've seen Chris Wallace use similarly cheap tactics in other interviews.
Yeah, Chris Wallace (I'm awful at remembering names, haha) is the only person on Fox News who tries to call himself a journalist who obviously injects bias into his work. All of the O'Reillys and Hannitys and whatnot call themselves "news commentators."
 
Good lord, do you believe in the Gnomes of Zurich, too?

At one point, early on, there was an interesting discussion in this thread, but then it became apparent that the real motivation here is the old "gova'ment got no right to tax me" stuff.

You even got an "armed revolution" shout-out in there! Nicely done. TOBY KEITH APPROVES!


Wow, that was both informative and not a complete waste of my time.
 
We voted for the people who made the "mistake," and therefore we are obligated to repair the mistake.

Excuse me, I didn't vote for them. I wasn't able to vote for them, even had I wanted to. How exactly is it on my shoulders to clean up the mess? Not everyone supported or was even able to voice an opinion on the Iraq war. Therefore, not everyone is obligated to help clean it up.
 
Yeah, Chris Wallace (I'm awful at remembering names, haha) is the only person on Fox News who tries to call himself a journalist who obviously injects bias into his work. All of the O'Reillys and Hannitys and whatnot call themselves "news commentators."

What about Shep Smith, Carl Cameron, Brit Hume, Neil Cavuto?


I love how people equate FOX with two or three names out of 20.
 
Strawman argument. Just because the Nazis said something doesn't mean it's wrong.

That's not a strawman arguement. Every totalitarianist and dictator has said that, the Nazis, European monarchs, the Soviets, even one ancient Israeli king say so in the bible (iirc). Its a virtual historical universal.

To say that the people and the government are one entity, is a typical totalitarian principle used to stifle criticism -- because the king can say "I am the nation, criticize me, and you are anti-[nation]".
 
Top Bottom