EmperorFool
Deity
Because without enough EPs you cannot see that information.
Requests for new components (and features)
- Thread starter Cammagno
- Start date
Because without enough EPs you cannot see that information.
Exactly. By adding that ability you're just watering down what espionage puts into the game.
ruff_hi
Live 4ever! Or die trying
I don't think it is a matter of espionage or not. In some of my games, I am a clear tech leader so I like to try and maximize what I can get for Liberalism. This means leaving lib (or researching it until I am 1 turn from completion) and then clearing tech to bulb something big (eg steel). However, the danger here is that you don't get a warning that someone can now research lib or that info is not shown in the scoreboard (ie not enough EPs against that AI).
If you have EPs, then there is a clear redundancy. Consider the situation when you don't have enough EPs ... The answer to this is to check F4 - Techs every few turns and note how various AIs are going on clearing philo and / or education - thus unlocking Liberalism. If you note the turn that Liberalism moves into their 'can research' column, you can guesstimate how many turns you have before you have to finish lib. Now, this manual checking of F4 is micromanagement that BUG tries to remove. Thus an alert saying "Leader X just finished Education" will clearly be a help in judging your liberalism delay.
For me, the problem with alerts is that there are sooooo many of them that I either turn them all off or I lose the important ones in the snow of alerts (and then I have to go hunt in the log for it - more micro). There should be a mod to draw your attention to the important alerts and lets you ignore the unimportant ones.
If you have EPs, then there is a clear redundancy. Consider the situation when you don't have enough EPs ... The answer to this is to check F4 - Techs every few turns and note how various AIs are going on clearing philo and / or education - thus unlocking Liberalism. If you note the turn that Liberalism moves into their 'can research' column, you can guesstimate how many turns you have before you have to finish lib. Now, this manual checking of F4 is micromanagement that BUG tries to remove. Thus an alert saying "Leader X just finished Education" will clearly be a help in judging your liberalism delay.
For me, the problem with alerts is that there are sooooo many of them that I either turn them all off or I lose the important ones in the snow of alerts (and then I have to go hunt in the log for it - more micro). There should be a mod to draw your attention to the important alerts and lets you ignore the unimportant ones.
EmperorFool
Deity
Espionage lets you see what you can't see on the F4:TECHS page--the tech that an AI is researching this turn. The alert would only tell you about techs that they have finished. If you're allocating EPs against an AI merely to find out what they've already researched, you're not using espionage to its maximum effect.
To Ruff's point about alert message overflow, I agree. In the early game, alerts are extremely valuable to me. As the game progresses, I find I start ignoring many of them and probably missing some important ones. How could we make them easier to use?
One idea is to have our own alert screen that would allow you to filter and group past events.
Another idea, specific to techs, is to allow the player to mark techs they are interested in hearing about--Education and Philosophy in Ruff's case. This would be more work.
Finally, an idea specific to the Liberalism race is to place an indicator on the main interface showing how many rivals can research Liberalism. This could look like the (not yet added) indicators for how many Universities are needed before you can build OU, Courthouses for the FP, etc. It would only show up once at least one rival can research it, and it would disappear as soon as the race was over.
To Ruff's point about alert message overflow, I agree. In the early game, alerts are extremely valuable to me. As the game progresses, I find I start ignoring many of them and probably missing some important ones. How could we make them easier to use?
One idea is to have our own alert screen that would allow you to filter and group past events.
Another idea, specific to techs, is to allow the player to mark techs they are interested in hearing about--Education and Philosophy in Ruff's case. This would be more work.
Finally, an idea specific to the Liberalism race is to place an indicator on the main interface showing how many rivals can research Liberalism. This could look like the (not yet added) indicators for how many Universities are needed before you can build OU, Courthouses for the FP, etc. It would only show up once at least one rival can research it, and it would disappear as soon as the race was over.
Elkad
Emperor
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2007
- Messages
- 1,057
Same thing would be appropriate for any other "first player to research this" rewards, like religions or GPs.
I just had an idea.
You know how after 10 or 11 turns of not building a unit the hammers start decaying? It's quite tedious trying to keep notes on how many turns have been spent not building the thing, especially when you're timing chops/whips in with other builds simultaneously.
Could we please have some sort of counter for this? It could maybe be displayed beside the item in the city view or perhaps just in the F1 screen (assuming it's not already there!). There could even be a pop up message warning you on the turn right before a build is going to start decaying.
Possible, yes?
You know how after 10 or 11 turns of not building a unit the hammers start decaying? It's quite tedious trying to keep notes on how many turns have been spent not building the thing, especially when you're timing chops/whips in with other builds simultaneously.
Could we please have some sort of counter for this? It could maybe be displayed beside the item in the city view or perhaps just in the F1 screen (assuming it's not already there!). There could even be a pop up message warning you on the turn right before a build is going to start decaying.
Possible, yes?
r_rolo1
King of myself
As long as we remember that the decay period is not equal for everything.......
Of course. I think there are only two cases though - a building or unit - and both are in the XML. For units I think it's 10, and buildings it's 50 IIRC.
EmperorFool
Deity
Does anyone fully know the decay rules and can explain them briefly here? If I add this, I'll double-check in the code of course, but I just want to be able to think about presentation without reading the code now.
- Does decay happen on the Nth or N+1st turn of no production? (probably Nth)
- Is the decay timer based on time in the queue or number of turns that you haven't put
into it? - Does the decay timer reset if you put into the thing for 1 turn? IOW, can you avoid decay on a unit by building it every 10th turn?
This is what I'm not100% sure about. WHen I did tests it seemed more like the n+2 or n+3 turn for some weird reason.
Number of turns where hammers weren't put into it.[*]Is the decay timer based on time in the queue or number of turns that you haven't put
The timer is not reset each time you put hammers into it.[*]Does the decay timer reset if you put
This means it's particularly brutal on marathon because the 10 turns does not scale. Swapping mid build on marathon is almost always going to cause decay if it's a unit, but not if it were quick speed.
Because of the answers to the last two questions, you can probably see why I'm asking for the feature. It's such a pain trying to figure out how many turns have been spent not building something.
By the way, the value 10 and 50 are in GlobalDefines.xml. Search for the word "decay".
EmperorFool
Deity
That seems pretty straight-forward. How would you want to see this? I'm thinking that as soon as the item will decay within X turns (5 default?), it displays the number of turns until decay after the name:
Factory 7
Rifleman [5] 2
Here you put the Rifleman on hold with 2 turns left until complete to build a Factory. The Factory is now 7 turns from completion, and the Rifleman has hit the decay timer threshold.
You put 5 more turns into the Factory . . .
Factory 2
Rifleman ** 2
and the Rifleman is going to decay this turn (two *). So you swap them around.
Rifleman * 2
Factory 2
The Rifleman won't decay, but it's at the limit (one *). Perhaps one versus two * isn't needed since it depends on whether or not the item is at the top of the queue (one *).
I can have different thresholds for units and buildings if that matters. We can also create an icon instead of *. I would much rather put the decay info into its own column, but that would cause the whole name column to shrink.
The display method above would be problematic if any item had a name long enough to be cut off since the decay comes at the end. I could put the info at the front, but that's where the * for continuous build goes now.
I'm open to suggestions.
Factory 7
Rifleman [5] 2
Here you put the Rifleman on hold with 2 turns left until complete to build a Factory. The Factory is now 7 turns from completion, and the Rifleman has hit the decay timer threshold.
You put 5 more turns into the Factory . . .
Factory 2
Rifleman ** 2
and the Rifleman is going to decay this turn (two *). So you swap them around.
Rifleman * 2
Factory 2
The Rifleman won't decay, but it's at the limit (one *). Perhaps one versus two * isn't needed since it depends on whether or not the item is at the top of the queue (one *).
I can have different thresholds for units and buildings if that matters. We can also create an icon instead of *. I would much rather put the decay info into its own column, but that would cause the whole name column to shrink.
The display method above would be problematic if any item had a name long enough to be cut off since the decay comes at the end. I could put the info at the front, but that's where the * for continuous build goes now.
I'm open to suggestions.
EmperorFool
Deity
So I'm looking at the code in CvCity::doDecay(), and it's pretty simple. Each turn that an item isn't at the head of the queue, it's timer is increased by one. After that, if its timer is greater than the limit, it's production is reduced to UNIT_PRODUCTION_DECAY_PERCENT of its current value (98 unit, 99 building). Due to integer rounding, the actual decay can be slightly more.
So it looks like the decay happens on the 11th and 51st turns. IOW, you get 10/50 turns of non-production without decay.
Now the bad news: the functions to access the timer are not exposed to Python. This feature will require BULL.
So it looks like the decay happens on the 11th and 51st turns. IOW, you get 10/50 turns of non-production without decay.
Now the bad news: the functions to access the timer are not exposed to Python. This feature will require BULL.
Hey I can live with BULL. 
OnmyojiOmn
Prince
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2006
- Messages
- 371
I only ever use the city screen's yield table to check food output for all tiles in the BFC, for the purpose of planning improvements. The options drop-down for the default yield display isn't very useful because I still have to switch the tile display every time I start a game. It'd be nice if there was a drop-down for default tile display as well.
Also, some kind of option for viewing ocean output with a Lighthouse would help out in the early game, since that's the only time I still need to count manually. I'm one of those players who starts a new game every sitting, so I see a lot of the early game.
Also, some kind of option for viewing ocean output with a Lighthouse would help out in the early game, since that's the only time I still need to count manually. I'm one of those players who starts a new game every sitting, so I see a lot of the early game.
Hey BUG masters, I have a couple of related requests that might be kind of a PITA but here goes. The first is an "patrol route" action for land and naval units. It would be an additional unit action. It would act almost like the "move to" action, except once the selected unit or stack reached the destination tile, it would turn around and move back to tile from which the command was issued. It would continue moving back and forth, until either a) the action is canceled or b) an enemy unit was detected within its visual range. I got the idea from StarCraft, where units can be given patrol commands.
The second request is a "repeating recon" mission for air units. It would start just like the existing recon mission, except it would recur each turn until an enemy unit is detected or the action is canceled.
I know when I play BTS, in an effort to economize on hammers, I'll build a smaller units for reconnaissance purposes, but maintain sufficient intelligence gathering by micro-managing in the ways described above.
I think these features would fit well within the BUG mantra of automating tedious actions without changing the rules of the game. But, I don't how much is involved in adding new unit actions or if it can be accomplished through Python alone. If it's too difficult, I totally understand. Anyway, thanks for the making BUG as awesome as it is.
The second request is a "repeating recon" mission for air units. It would start just like the existing recon mission, except it would recur each turn until an enemy unit is detected or the action is canceled.
I know when I play BTS, in an effort to economize on hammers, I'll build a smaller units for reconnaissance purposes, but maintain sufficient intelligence gathering by micro-managing in the ways described above.
I think these features would fit well within the BUG mantra of automating tedious actions without changing the rules of the game. But, I don't how much is involved in adding new unit actions or if it can be accomplished through Python alone. If it's too difficult, I totally understand. Anyway, thanks for the making BUG as awesome as it is.
EmperorFool
Deity
The repeating recon could be handled by reusing a new Patrol action. That would solve that pretty easily.
That just leaves creating a Patrol action. Creating new actions requires SDK work AFAIK, so it would fall under the purview of BULL. I don't see any anti-UGness, so it's just a matter of looking into how long it would take.
Have you seen any mods that add this ability? It would be much easier to swipe an existing solution.
That just leaves creating a Patrol action. Creating new actions requires SDK work AFAIK, so it would fall under the purview of BULL. I don't see any anti-UGness, so it's just a matter of looking into how long it would take.
Have you seen any mods that add this ability? It would be much easier to swipe an existing solution.
MadmanAtW
Knight
This came up in another thread, but I'll make it an official request- multiplayer dot-mapping would rock my Civ world.
royal62184
Prince
This may not be within the realm of BUG but here it goes.
Is there a way that before you capture a city or build a city with a settler that you can find out the exact maintenance cost to determine if you want to raze the city (if capturing) or hold off (if expanding). I know there are formulas floating around the boards based on map size I think so we could calculate. The problem is I don't think this is anywhere in the game already so i'm guessing you guys don't want to pursue this? Maybe this would be a good mod if I knew how. Sorry if this has been asked before lot of posts in this thread.
EDIT: After thinking about it, this calculation would have to involve # of cities maintenance that changes in the other cities in your empire, the civic maintenance (that is based on population?), and unit maintenance (based on population, I think). Then if you factor in what the new city will be working after revolt this could get really complicated.
Is there a way that before you capture a city or build a city with a settler that you can find out the exact maintenance cost to determine if you want to raze the city (if capturing) or hold off (if expanding). I know there are formulas floating around the boards based on map size I think so we could calculate. The problem is I don't think this is anywhere in the game already so i'm guessing you guys don't want to pursue this? Maybe this would be a good mod if I knew how. Sorry if this has been asked before lot of posts in this thread.
EDIT: After thinking about it, this calculation would have to involve # of cities maintenance that changes in the other cities in your empire, the civic maintenance (that is based on population?), and unit maintenance (based on population, I think). Then if you factor in what the new city will be working after revolt this could get really complicated.
Psyringe
Scout
That reminds me of something I've thought about for a while (but kept forgetting to mention 
). Is there a way to see how much the "number of cities" maintenance would increase if I founded one more city? That's a piece of information that I'd often like to have during the initial expansion phase, when another city's maintenance can make or break your budget. It would be nice to know how much my expenses would be effected before I start to build the next settler, but I've never found a way to look that up. Is there one?
). Is there a way to see how much the "number of cities" maintenance would increase if I founded one more city? That's a piece of information that I'd often like to have during the initial expansion phase, when another city's maintenance can make or break your budget. It would be nice to know how much my expenses would be effected before I start to build the next settler, but I've never found a way to look that up. Is there one?
Good idea Psyringe, but, do you have a formula somewhere?
royal62184, there has been brought up a similar idea recently, a look into the city before you capture it to help and decide whether or not to keep it. If Psyringe's idea gets implemented, it wouldn't be hard including your idea. You wouldn't need to go into the city screen, just "simulate" founding the city and calculating the difference in maintenance.
royal62184, there has been brought up a similar idea recently, a look into the city before you capture it to help and decide whether or not to keep it. If Psyringe's idea gets implemented, it wouldn't be hard including your idea. You wouldn't need to go into the city screen, just "simulate" founding the city and calculating the difference in maintenance.
Similar threads
