Research Q&A

I've done some more research on the Lattitude and longitude give for these cities. They were done from a chap named Ptolemy. The problem is that his view of the world is not the same as we now know it. I found a utility that you can add in coordinates and it will tell you where in the world you are. I tried this with the given coordinates for the Germanic cities and it places them in Iran. So as far as coordinates go they are pretty useless. OTOH the city names should be helpful
 
Mistfit said:
I've done some more research on the Lattitude and longitude give for these cities. They were done from a chap named Ptolemy. The problem is that his view of the world is not the same as we now know it. I found a utility that you can add in coordinates and it will tell you where in the world you are. I tried this with the given coordinates for the Germanic cities and it places them in Iran. So as far as coordinates go they are pretty useless. OTOH the city names should be helpful

I've generally found that working from an atlas with a similar projection as the Civ map I'm working on to work well enough; it also obviates problems like having two cities adjacent or in the same tile, although this of course requires a reasoned judgement call.

-Oz
 
That is a very cool list of germanic settlements, any way to split them between the ones that could go to a general germanic civ and others for a general gothic civ? Then its just a matter of finding the aproximate location of half a dozen germanic and another half dozen gothic settlements so i could place them on the earth map. Note im using an 180x180 earth map, so those dozen settlements should represent the whole germanic/goth territory.

Thanks!
 
The following comes from:
JORDANES
THE ORIGIN AND DEEDS OF THE GOTHS
translated by Charles C. Mierow​
Scythia
But in that region where Scythia touches the Pontic coast it is dotted with towns of no mean fame:--Borysthenis, Olbia, Callipolis, Cherson, Theodosia, Careon, Myrmicion and Trapezus. These towns the wild Scythian tribes allowed the Greeks to build to afford them means of trade. In the midst of Scythia is the place that separates Asia and Europe, I mean the Rhipaeian mountains, from which the mighty Tanais flows. This river enters Maeotis, a marsh having a circuit of one hundred and forty-four miles and never subsiding to a depth of less than eight fathoms.


Goths
We read that on their first migration the Goths dwelt in the land of Scythia near Lake Maeotis. On the second migration they went to Moesia, Thrace and Dacia, and after their third they dwelt again in Scythia, above the Sea of Pontus. Nor do we find anywhere in their written records legends which tell of their subjection to slavery in Britain or in some other island, or of their redemption by a certain man at the cost of a single horse. Of course if anyone in our city says that the Goths had an origin different from that I have related, let him object. For myself, I prefer to believe what I have read, rather than put trust in old wives' tales.
Note: Moesia, Thrace and Dacia seem to be countries not cities :hmm:
It was at this time, as the historian Dio relates, that Philip, suffering from need of money, determined to lead out his forces and sack Odessus, a city of Moesia, which was then subject to the Goths by reason of the neighboring city of Tomi. Thereupon those priests of the Goths that are called the Holy Men suddenly opened the gates of Odessus and came forth to meet them
They speedily crossed the Danube, devastated Moesia a second time and approached Marcianople, the famed metropolis of that land.
The Gepidae hastened to take arms and Ostrogotha likewise moved his forces against them, lest he should seem a coward. They met at the town of Galtis, near which the river Auha flows, and there both sides fought with great valor; indeed the similarity of their arms and of their manner of fighting turned them against their own men. But the better cause and their natural alertness aided the Goths. (100) Finally night put an end to the battle as a part of the Gepidae were giving way. Then Fastida, king of the Gepidae, left the field of slaughter and hastened to his own land, as much humiliated with shame and disgrace as formerly he had been elated with pride. The Goths returned victorious, content with the retreat of the Gepidae, and dwelt in peace and happiness in their own land so long as Ostrogotha was their leader
.
So he rode against the foe, demanding either death or vengeance, and when he came to Abrittus, a city of Moesia, he was himself cut off by the Goths and slain, thus making an end of his dominion and of his life. This place is to-day called the Altar of Decius, because he there offered strange sacrifices to idols before the battle

I'd say you could safely use these as city names for the Scythians and the Goths/Ostragoths/Visagoths. Although Marcianople I think is Roman in orgin It sounded as if the Goths owned it. This document is very difficult to follow so in all take the info here with a grain of salt. If you are interested there are many great leader Ideas in this document as well.

And do thou, O reader, hear me without repining; for I speak truly.
You've gotta believe a guy that says somthing like that :D

Orgins and Deeds
 
Finally heard back from that anthro friend of mine. I'm not sure if his list has anything new for those looking for mound-builder settlement names, but it has some extra details that may help those wishing to search further. Obviously, many of the names are given by the settlers, but I think that goes with the territory of using cultures that are long extinct.

"The largest and most famous Mississippian towns include Cahokia (IL), Moundville (AL), Etowah (GA), and Spiro (OK). In addition, there are thousands of other smaller Mississippian towns, villages, and hamlets. Aztalan (WI), Towosahgy (MO), Chucalissa (TN), Hiwassee (TN), Ocmulgee (GA), Kolomoki (GA) are all smaller Mississippian towns. Other towns to add to the list include Toltec Mounds (AR), Kincaid (IL), Larson (IL), Mitchell (IL), Otter Pond (IL), Angel (IN), Mound Bottom (TN), Belcher (LA), Medora (LA), Emerald Mound (MS), and Holly Bluff/Lake George (MS). Utz (MO) is generally considered an Oneota culture site (roughly contemporaneous with Mississippian peoples, but significantly different culturally), while Kathio (MN) is generally regarded as Mississippian-influenced rather than Mississippian proper.

Hopewell cultures developed primarily in two distinct cores: the central Ohio River Valley (Ohio or Classic Hopewell) and the central Illinois River valley (Havana Hopewell). Famous Ohio Hopewell sites (mostly earthwork complexes)include Hopewell (OH), Marietta (OH), Mound City (OH), Newark (OH), Seip (OH), Norton (MI). Famous Havana Hopewell sites include Havana (IL), Crab Orchard (IL), Gast Farm (IA), and Toolesboro (IA). Two other famous sites outside of the Hopewell cores include Trowbridge (KS/MO) and Marksville (LA). There are thousands of other Hopewell sites distributed across the major river drainages of the central and eastern U.S.

Adena cultures were concentrated in the central Ohio River valley. Famous Adena sites (mostly burial mound complexes) include Adena (OH), Miamisburg (OH), Serpent Mound (OH), Cresap Mound (WV), and Grave Creek Mound (WV), though there are hundreds of others."
 
Not a precise request yet but more a general demand for a person well versed on Leon and Navarra history in the Middle-Ages as I am not quite familiar with these two countries.
Mostly for knowledge about military and political leaders.
If you can help me, contact me by PM directly (I think it will avoid the cluttering here).
 
can anyone tell me the basics of the Amorite people?
things like a UU i could use or their relations with egypt
and most important, their cities and where were they around 3500bc
thanx
 
Bóreas said:
can anyone tell me the basics of the Amorite people?
things like a UU i could use or their relations with egypt
and most important, their cities and where were they around 3500bc
thanx

The Amorites first burst on the scene more like ca. 1850 BCE, Arabian nomads who established dynasties in Damascus, Aleppo, Mari, Assur, Babylon and Isin. As such, they bordered the Egyptians, but each power was too wrapped up in consolidation and other threats to evidently have much interaction (the Amorites with the Elamites; the Egyptians expanding their southern frontier -- although some hypothesize that the passsing of the Trans-Jordan out of the Egyptian sphere was due to the Amorites).

BTW the first Egyptian dynasty didn't occur until the beginnings of the 3rd millenium BCE; starting most Civs in 4000 or even 3500 BCE is, shall we say, ahistorical.

-Oz
 
im just looking for a civ to simbolize the syrians on my scenario
egypt, lybia and nubia already existed by 3500
phoencian and hyksos will start with slow settlers on unbuildable terrain
 
Bóreas said:
im just looking for a civ to simbolize the syrians on my scenario
egypt, lybia and nubia already existed by 3500
phoencian and hyksos will start with slow settlers on unbuildable terrain
The Akkadians are closer in time to your era. Oh & I like your idea about starting with slow settlers on unbuildable terrain. :thumbsup:

-Oz
 
thanx for the info
and a special thanx for the compliment.
ill research the akkadians
 
im not so sure i will be adding any more civs
the Akkadian empire was way to far from egypt...
 
Bóreas said:
im not so sure i will be adding any more civs
the Akkadian empire was way to far from egypt...

:confused: My historical atlas under the entry for 2750 BCE shows the Akkadians abutting the Egyptians (Second Dynasty) roughly where the modern Suez Canal is. -- Now, granted, this refers to the Akkadian peoples, not the Akkadian Empire of Mesopotamia ...
 
im pretty sure the egyptian had very few encounters with Akkadian soldiers
but im pretty sure they knew akkadians.
right now im thinking of a way to include the Hittites and the Punt to the scenario
 
LouLong said:
Not a precise request yet but more a general demand for a person well versed on Leon and Navarra history in the Middle-Ages as I am not quite familiar with these two countries.
Mostly for knowledge about military and political leaders.
If you can help me, contact me by PM directly (I think it will avoid the cluttering here).

I'm not well versed in either history, but...

[from "The Encyclopedia of the Middle Ages"]

-Ferdinand I (????): Began in control of Castile and extended his control to Leon and Aragon... must have also gained control of Galicia (see below).

-Alfonso VI The Brave (c. 1040-1109): second son of Ferdinand I (who was king of Leon, Castile, and Galicia. Upon Ferdinand's death, Alfonso got Leon, his bro Sancho II got Castile, and another bro, Garcia, got Galicia. After Alfonso arrested Garcia (who later died in prison), he struggled with Sancho for control of the kingdom. Despite losing several battles to Sancho's general (El Cid), Alfonso teamed up with his sister, Urraca, and assassinated Garcia, thus uniting Leon & Castile. After this, he recovered Muslim Toledo and Valencia, apparently with the help of El Cid, but was later killed in Toledo during the Almoravid invasion from northern spain. However, he married his daughter off to an Aragonian (Alphonso I The Battler) and the struggle continued with the Almoravids. Alfonso was also known for introducing the Clunaic monastic order to Spain.

-Alfonso I The Battler (c. 1073-1134): King of Aragon and Navarre from 1104 to 1134. Fought the Moors in 1110 and fought with his wife Urraca for control of Castile. Fatally wouned at the battle of Fraga in 1134.

-Alfonso X The Wise (c. 1221-1284): Crowned king of Castile and Leon in 1252. Basically known for an unsuccessful attempt to become Holy Roman Emperor. He was elected but a papal veto prevented him from taking the throne. Led the conquest of Andalusia (~1265). Eventually his sons, Sancho (the younger) and Ferdinand (the older), fought among themselves and with Alfonso for control of the kingdoms. Sancho's Castilian supporters ousted Alfonso.

-Regarding Navarre: The people of the region fought against the Visigoths, Arabs, and Charlemagne, maintaining independence throughout. After gaining control over the disparate tribes, clans, and townships, the first king of Navarre was Sancho I. Continued their independence with a series of marriages and truces with surrounding states. Navarre reached the height of its power under Sancho III. After Sancho III's death in 1034, the dynasties of Navarre occupied the thrones of Aragon and Castile. Castile was lost in later dynastic wars (Ferdinand I?) and Aragon became an independent kingdom. Later, the kings of Aragon ruled Navarre before the region was made a province of France (1234). Later, the heiress to the Navarre-Champagne province married King Charles IV of France and the region was caught up in a number of dynastic conflicts. A brief respite from decline occurred under Charles the Noble (r. 1387-1425).

Lots of other folks in all this confusion, but none I have references for directly tied to Navarre or Leon.
 
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