Rhye's of Civilization - the fastest loading mod Expanded

[Aeon221]

Also, I could set up a private forum for mod development on invisionfree if you want

I have a good deal of experience with that, having once been a hardcore NationStates player.

 

[Owain]

If you did thqat, you'd have to add a small wonder called "Colonialism" that spits out settlers in the late game... or something like that anyway.... hrmm... Maybe I'll do that in my own mod...

 

[Owain]

Or better yet (and easier IMO) would be to make settlers become available with Democracy, Comunism or Fascism... Start eevryone with say, 5 settlers or so, then let the game progress with small civs until the colonial/imperial explosion of modern govts.... sort of off topic I know... this will do anything BUT solve the problem of western european civs rushing into siberia... but it will be interesting.... it will mean there will probably be room in North America to be colonized when the Euros discover it and due to their tech advantage they can....

Instead of settlers, pre-placed cities might be best... Then you can give Russia and other traditionally sprawling civs a leg up.

 

[Tyrion]

The Setlers would have to have adequate protection from barbarians. Otherwise a whole bunch could be wiped out. Other then that it sounds interesting.

 

[Aeon221]

I am against preplaced cities, because I like to be able to pick my locations, but also because it would mean that the civ that started with the most would win.

Besides, what time period would you set it up for? The Renaissance city placement would be entirely different from the Classical period or the Industrial.

And Rhye, I KNOW youve read this idea before because I remember saying it before, but I am just gonna push it again. I figure you might change your mind ;p

 

[Aeon221]

Call them nomads, give them a D of 2 and an O of 1, and make them unproducable.

 

[Owain]

Oh well.. I dont share the view that more cities=more power... Resources/terrain plays a pretty big role. It doesn't have to be more for the pre-placing anyway... you can give everyone the same amount and start them all off at 10 base culture... 5 cities @10 culture can take up quite alot of space...

But regardless, this is one aspect of RoC I'm unsatisfied with. I didn't really realize until this discussion, but I don't care for the increased cost of settlers. I understand the reason and its a good one. I just don't like the result.

For me, it means every time I'm approaching a tech that will up the cost of settlers, I rush some settlers... The AI, I'm sure, doesn't know to do this... So its just another point where the AI will show its weakness... The AI has enough weaknesses already. I prefer it when mods don't introduce new ones.

 

[Owain]

I had a thought:

restrict settlers to Feudal ones for colonial civs, and later ones for other civs
Give each civ a set number of settlers to fill in a prescribed amount of space, which would vary for each with larger numbers for... say China, and smaller for the Netherlands, but make sure that it is enough to fill their "national space"

I am against preplaced cities, because I like to be able to pick my locations, but also because it would mean that the civ that started with the most would win.

Besides, what time period would you set it up for? The Renaissance city placement would be entirely different from the Classical period or the Industrial.

You seem to contradict yourself there...

I mean, i thought the whole point was historical acuracy and correct territory... so then, why not pre=place cities in the correct locations as well? I guess I don't understand where you draw the line there... doesn't really matter though... I suppose I honestly dont care too much for the idea of not being able to choose my city sites either. I just dont see the difference between more cities vs more settlers for certain civs.

 

[Gunner]

I would be in favor of making settlers available later, yet only giving maybe two of them to start with. Then, a small wonder which autoproduces settlers could be available from the begining. Maybe every 30 turns to produce? It would take some testing.

I also like the idea of making settlers available with the more advanced govs.

 

[Aeon221]

I know it sounds contradictory (and probably is ;p) but heres my reasoning.

If you preplace a city right, its there the whole time, producing, growing etc. It has to have a defender right from the start, and probably a worker or a network of roads. This would probably give at least a decent advantage, but more importantly would be a prebuilt scenario, which would require tweaks, changes, manipulations, and constant moving of cities.

A bunch of settlers is just that. It allows people to choose their spots, it keeps things from getting too preplaced while maintaining a semihistorical balance, it will require less work... and basically I know that Rhye wont do it anyway so whats the point of arguing ;p

 

[Aeon221]

Gunner dude, heres a quote for you:

"God fights on the side with the heaviest artillery"
-Napoleon

;p

 

[CJ.]

Rhye thank you for a such a great mod.

I have some observations and suggestions.

Observations:
1. Workers take too long to complete work, and or
2. Not enough workers are produced.
3. Jungle areas are basically never cleared or improved.
4. Resources that are not easy to attain are usually left alone by the AI.
5. The AI makes threats to give something or else but unless you are about to crush their last city you cannot do the same to them.

Suggestions:
1. Instead of wiping out a nation, there should be an option to have it as a vassal or statelite after certain criteria are met.
2. The AI should not make stupid decisions, for example Israel decaring war on Russia. Small nations should be loath to go to war.
3. The trade advisor should make suggestions regarding the top three trade routes, eg "You have diamonds that Ottomans, India and Spain want."
4. Replace the swordsmen with a specialised barbarian hierarchial structure. The swordsmen look out of place in all but Europe.
5. You should be able to provide military assests to other AI, such as tanks.
6. Cities should be able to revolt and form a new country like in call to power.
7. The AI should remember if you were generous to it. At the moment there is no loyalty.
8. The Dutch need to be stronger sea farers. They don't seem to colonise Indonesia. Maybe they can have a random colony at a certain point in time to encourage them. Like wise with the British in Australia. The AI needs a lot of help here.
9. Nations go to war over what? There should be a reason and a desired outcome stated. War is never a random event.
10. China and India should have a greater population.

Just some ideas to consider and discuss. Thanks again for your enjoyable mod.

 

[Tyrion]

Those things just arnt possible. Im pretty sure and if were would take alot of work.

 

[Rhye]

Also, I could set up a private forum for mod development on invisionfree if you want

I have a good deal of experience with that, having once been a hardcore NationStates player.

No, thanks, I don't want to leave CivFanatics. Thunderfall has been very kind, offering FTP space for free, and I'll keep supporting the site.

I suggest this frequently, so I will suggest it again. If we exchange screen names, idea transfer could be very rapid. Mine is in my common profile.

??

restrict settlers to Feudal ones for colonial civs, and later ones for other civs
Give each civ a set number of settlers to fill in a prescribed amount of space, which would vary for each with larger numbers for... say China, and smaller for the Netherlands, but make sure that it is enough to fill their "national space"

first: I'll keep repeating this all through the development of the Xpack.
One of my guidelines is not to do anything unfair.
For this reason:
-no additional units to some civs only
-no preplaced cities to Babylon, Greece or Egypt like tacfun requested
-no civs with more UUs than the others. 31 UUs will be
-in case of flavour units, I've already a project that preserves the original strtucture of the units
-this includes that every civ have the same settlers

And apart from that, how would you do that? Giving all the settlers at the beginning?

 

[Rhye]

Or better yet (and easier IMO) would be to make settlers become available with Democracy, Comunism or Fascism... Start eevryone with say, 5 settlers or so, then let the game progress with small civs until the colonial/imperial explosion of modern govts.... sort of off topic I know... this will do anything BUT solve the problem of western european civs rushing into siberia... but it will be interesting.... it will mean there will probably be room in North America to be colonized when the Euros discover it and due to their tech advantage they can....

Instead of settlers, pre-placed cities might be best... Then you can give Russia and other traditionally sprawling civs a leg up.

That wouldn't solve the problem.
European 5th settler would go to Siberia.

And I prefer leaving preplaced cities to the scenarios.

 

[Rhye]

Rhye thank you for a such a great mod.

I have some observations and suggestions.

Observations:
1. Workers take too long to complete work, and or
2. Not enough workers are produced.
3. Jungle areas are basically never cleared or improved.
4. Resources that are not easy to attain are usually left alone by the AI.
5. The AI makes threats to give something or else but unless you are about to crush their last city you cannot do the same to them.

1,2,3: This is the way I want it to be. You just need to know that terraforming is very difficult, especially in the first 2 eras.
Otherwise jungles would become grasslands, deserts would be entirely irrigated, and there would be rich cities there. Instead in this way the distribution of the cities is similar to the real world.

Suggestions:
1. Instead of wiping out a nation, there should be an option to have it as a vassal or statelite after certain criteria are met.
2. The AI should not make stupid decisions, for example Israel decaring war on Russia. Small nations should be loath to go to war.
3. The trade advisor should make suggestions regarding the top three trade routes, eg "You have diamonds that Ottomans, India and Spain want."
4. Replace the swordsmen with a specialised barbarian hierarchial structure. The swordsmen look out of place in all but Europe.
5. You should be able to provide military assests to other AI, such as tanks.
6. Cities should be able to revolt and form a new country like in call to power.
7. The AI should remember if you were generous to it. At the moment there is no loyalty.
8. The Dutch need to be stronger sea farers. They don't seem to colonise Indonesia. Maybe they can have a random colony at a certain point in time to encourage them. Like wise with the British in Australia. The AI needs a lot of help here.
9. Nations go to war over what? There should be a reason and a desired outcome stated. War is never a random event.
10. China and India should have a greater population.

Just some ideas to consider and discuss. Thanks again for your enjoyable mod.

Yes you should ask this to Firaxis for Civ4 I asked to Firaxis myself some of these points, some months ago.

 

[Aeon221]

Nono I didnt mean leaving the forum here, you just said that you didnt want everything about your mod to get out before. Thats why I offered. It would be completely private, and therefore up to you want you wanted to tell about it.

Haha this site is the only thing keeping me sane with my workload. Stealin a minute here and there with it is like my only joytime hahahaa that sounds so bad.

Whatever ;p

Hope I didnt piss anyone off, an Rhye I knew you were against taht idea, dont know why I bothered to bring it up again ;p

 

[Blasphemous]

I suggest this frequently, so I will suggest it again. If we exchange screen names, idea transfer could be very rapid. Mine is in my common profile.

??

He has a point, if we would keep in contact via ICQ/MSN/AIM/Y!IM at least for the xpack developement it would keep ideas flowing much better than they do here.

 

[Jaguar]

This is civ. As such, you should start with a single settler. Rhye has carefully made it so that the world doesn't get completely populated by 1500 BC. I would like for it to stay that way, and preplaced cities or lots of settlers will not help.

 

[Rhye]

oh, I see.
Well, you know my ICQ. It's 77282794.
I can send you the link to the biq via ICQ or via email (I still haven't Aeon's).
But I think that it won't be a priority.
I just don't want to give the biq to everyone while it is in development, and in the same time I want somebody to test it (especially the religions: they will be in only if they will be useful and if AI makes a good use of them).
Apart from that, I don't think that there are much secrets