Rightwing militias on the rise in the US again

[ParkCungHee]

I hope so. The opportunity to burn Atlanta a second time is too good to pass up.

Tri-Insula shall rise again!

 

[bhsup]

I hope so. The opportunity to burn Atlanta Lawrence, KS a second time is too good to pass up.

Fixed that for ya.

 

[ParkCungHee]

Admittedly, I'm not looking forward to burning our own city down again.

 

[Karalysia]

Fixed that for ya.

It's Kansas so no loss.

 

[JollyRoger]

So, if I understand Merkinball correctly, the citizenry should take it upon themselves to kill illegal immigrants. Charming.

That's what the Injuns should have done.

 

[Bill3000]

There can be certain areas where the federales can turn a blind eye to the citizens rights, ignore laws, or become corrupt. This is why Tax Cheat Geitner has immense power over our lives, why Charlie Rangle hasn't been prosecuted, and why Tom Daschle wasn't thrown in the slammer. This is why Bernie Maddoff was able to get away with his ponzie scheme for so long. It is also why property owners at the border have been forced to watch their property destroyed and run roughshod over for twenty years. It's also why many low income Americans cannot find a job.

I don't see how a single thing is relevant to what you are talking about, with the exception of the property owners one.

If you own a piece of property by the border and it is perpetually used as a crossing point for people to violate federal law, and the government ignores your property rights, and ignores their federal duties, why must the property owner be held hostage to illegal immigrants?

Because if it is not justified self-defense, (of which protection of property alone is not a justification) it is legally and morally speaking murder.

The right to bear arms exists specifically for the purposes of vigilantism and denying the state its monopoly on use of force.

No it's not. As I said before, the justification for the right to bear arms is right there in the constitution - the creation of a well-regulated militia in order to defend the state. It says nothing about self-defense (of which the individual states regulate on a legislative, not constitutional basis) and certainly nothing about vigilantism. Significantly though, one's use of self-defense is derived from the state's monopoly on violence - self-defense and other justifications are defined by the state.

Vigilantism may be illegal, but it's not necessarily immoral. It's immoral if you go on a witch hunt, it's certainly not immoral if you take the law into your own hands and kill someone that's invading your property and trying to rape your daughter.

Killing someone who is in the process of trying to rape your daughter is justified self-defense, and thus is not vigilantism; your ability to do such a thing is derived from the castle doctrine and other legal rights that you have, not simply because you have a gun. You're confusing justified self-defense with viligantism; the two are not the same. Viligantism would be, say,

Or doing what you can to protect your private property from being rummaged over by illegal immigrants that your government is purposefully ignoring.

If that involves murder out of a known non-threat on a life, then no, that's immoral in addition to being illegal, as it would be murder.

Vigilantism does not involve legal means of force derived from the authority of the state, such as citizen's arrest, justified self-defense, et cetera. It involves things such as non-justifiable homicide; if you see someone pickpocket another person, and you find the pickpocket later on and kill him, that would be murder. Even if it was a murderer and you see him later on, it would still be murder; murdering a murderer is still murder and still immoral.

 

[Merkinball]

I don't see how a single thing is relevant to what you are talking about, with the exception of the property owners one. - Bill3000

Why doesn't it? Bernie Maddoff is an example of the SEC not doing its job. Tim Geitner, Charlie Rangle, and Tim Daschle are an example of the Justice Department, or whatever law enforcement arm is responsible for prosecuting tax cheats not doing their job. You said that when people break the law it is up to law enforcement and the judicial system to take care of the problem and not the vigilante groups. But that still doesn't answer the question about what should be done about government organizations purposefully turning a blind eye to law breakers and gross corruption taking place. We have two classes of people in this country, law abiding, tax abiding people such as you and I, and law breaking, tax cheating people, who ironically are writing the tax code, levying the tax code, and ensuring that we're following the tax code. How is this right? And what engine is there for the people to ensure that justice is being served? If it was found out that every house rep, senator, and person associated with the executive branch was guilty of tax fraud, how would the people of this country be able to ensure justice was served if the people responsible for the crimes were responsible for prosecuting them?

Because if it is not justified self-defense, (of which protection of property alone is not a justification) it is legally and morally speaking murder. - Bill3000

I'm not talking about murder or killing people. I'm talking about protecting your property, primarily through detention of violators. The bottom line is that the system is purposefully stacked against this group of citizens. It is also immoral for the federal government to purposefully neglect certain groups of American citizens while at the same time going out of its way to protect non-citizens.

No it's not. As I said before, the justification for the right to bear arms is right there in the constitution - the creation of a well-regulated militia in order to defend the state. It says nothing about self-defense (of which the individual states regulate on a legislative, not constitutional basis) and certainly nothing about vigilantism. Significantly though, one's use of self-defense is derived from the state's monopoly on violence - self-defense and other justifications are defined by the state. - Bill3000

I need to dig up some reference material to adequately discuss this. I may or may not get around to it. If not, I apologize.

Killing someone who is in the process of trying to rape your daughter is justified self-defense. - Bill3000

I thought you needed to be in a militia to do this? Doesn't this mean that the government doesn't have a monopoly on the use of force?

If that involves murder out of a known non-threat on a life, then no, that's immoral in addition to being illegal, as it would be murder. - Bill3000

Except in certain states where there's a castle doctrine. I'm thinking of Florida in particular.

Vigilantism does not involve legal means of force derived from the authority of the state, such as citizen's arrest, justified self-defense, et cetera. It involves things such as non-justifiable homicide; - Bill3000

It doesn't require murder. It's etymology is from the word vigilance. And it's taking the law into your own hands outside of law enforcement. That can be anything from shooting people in your own home, forming a vigilante group in parts of Los Angeles to protect people from gang violence, or shooting someone in your house that's trying to murder your daughter. It's going outside to deter people from stealing cars and brandishing your pistol, it's stopping that pick-pocketer.

The Minuteman Project at the southern Arizona border is a vigilante group, and it hasn't killed anybody.

 

[Merkinball]

Wut? How does eating trans fats effect anyone else? Obesity is bad How does smoking effect anyone else? Second hand smoking is bad If I want to own a business and allow people to smoke there it's none of your business, you don't have to eat there, and you don't have to work there. It discriminates against non-smokers and people who care about their health and discrimination is bad What does it matter to you if I drink soda? Obesity is bad How does it effect you that I'm drinking a bottle of La Fin Du Monde? Alcholisim is bad How does it effect you if I build a house? Building codes ensure safety, zoning ensures organization and development What does it matter to you what car I drive? Some cars are unsafe resulting in danger for driver and those on the road. Some cars pollute too much which is bad Why should you dictate what my hobbies are? Depends what hobbies they are Why can't I go camping? Who says you can't? Why can't I plow driveways? Who says you can't? Why can't I go offroading? Depends where you want to do that. Why can't I go horseback riding? Whose stopping you? Why can't I go kayaking? Whose stopping you? How does my conceal carry permit effect you? Guns are dangerous and need to be regulated. How does my AR-15 effect you? Guns are dangerous and need to be regulated and certainely no civllian needs an assault rifle. How does maintaining my income (after paying constitutionally mandated taxes for transportation, defense, protecting patents, and the other 18 areas that congress is ordered to tax) effect you? Income tax is in the Constitution also. Social security, welfare, healthcare, scientific advancement, education are also vital functions of government.

So is it ok to ban all sex outside of marriage because STDs are bad?

By JoAnne Allen

WASHINGTON, March 9 (Reuters) - About 16 percent of Americans between the ages of 14 and 49 are infected with genital herpes, making it one of the most common sexually transmitted diseases, U.S. health officials said on Tuesday.

Black women had the highest rate of infection at 48 percent and women were nearly twice likely as men to be infected, according to an analysis by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

About 21 percent of women were infected with genital herpes, compared to only 11.5 percent of men, while 39 percent of blacks were infected compared to about 12 percent for whites, the CDC said.

There is no cure for genital herpes, or herpes simplex virus type 2 (HSV-2), which can cause recurrent and painful genital sores and also increases the likelihood of acquiring and transmitting the AIDS virus. It is related to herpes simplex virus 1, or oral herpes, which causes cold sores.

Several drugs are available to treat herpes symptoms and outbreaks, including acyclovir, which is available generically or under the Zovirax brand name, and valacyclovir, known generically as Valtrex -- both made by GlaxoSmithKline PLC (GSK.L). Ganciclovir, sold as Zirgan, is made by privately-held Sirion Therapeutics, Inc.

The CDC estimates that more than 80 percent of people with genital herpes do not know they are infected.

"The message is herpes is quite common. The symptoms can be often very innocuous," Dr. John Douglas of the CDC said in a teleconference.

"Because herpes is so prevalent it becomes ... a really important reason to use condoms on a consistent and correct basis with all of your partners," Douglas said.

Douglas said the increased rate of infection in blacks is not do to increased risk behavior but likely due to biological factors that make women more susceptible as well as the higher rate of infection within black communities.

The CDC estimates that there are 19 million new sexually transmitted disease infections every year in the United States, costing the health care system about $16 billion annually.

(Editing by Paul Simao)

And why can't I go fishing? Not only will you not allow to own a vehicle that can tow a boat, but Obama may actually ban fishing.

http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/saltwater/news/story?id=4975762

 

[holy king]

I hope so. The opportunity to burn Atlanta a second time is too good to pass up.

THE NORTH WILL RAZE AGAIN! a

 

[Lord Baal]

Don't worry, liberals are many things, but they are not "far left." They will never consciously betray capitalism.

(emphasis mine)

For some reason, reading this made me think of Darth Vader's comment to Tarkin that Princess Leia "would never consciously betray the Rebellion." I think that makes you Vader, Cheezy, which should make Obama Palpatine, seeing as how he's a evil Commie-Nazi-Socialist like yourself. I'm guessing Karalysia is Tarkin. RRW might be General Veers. My analogy horribly breaks down at that point.

 

[RedRalph]

General Veers?!?!?!? At the very least I'm boba Fett

 

[Cutlass]

Don't worry, liberals are many things, but they are not "far left." They will never consciously betray capitalism.

That's even more irony. The liberals are fighting to save capitalism. It is the conservatives that are betraying capitalism, whether they know it or not.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

(emphasis mine)

For some reason, reading this made me think of Darth Vader's comment to Tarkin that Princess Leia "would never consciously betray the Rebellion." I think that makes you Vader, Cheezy, which should make Obama Palpatine, seeing as how he's a evil Commie-Nazi-Socialist like yourself. I'm guessing Karalysia is Tarkin. RRW might be General Veers. My analogy horribly breaks down at that point.

If this is a councilory thread, then where is the ambassador?

 

[Karalysia]

Tarkin is awesome.

 

[RedRalph]

(emphasis mine)

For some reason, reading this made me think of Darth Vader's comment to Tarkin that Princess Leia "would never consciously betray the Rebellion." I think that makes you Vader, Cheezy, which should make Obama Palpatine, seeing as how he's a evil Commie-Nazi-Socialist like yourself. I'm guessing Karalysia is Tarkin. RRW might be General Veers. My analogy horribly breaks down at that point.

Richard Cribb is the Emperor. Cheezy is Vader, I'm Tarkin, Karalysia can be Fett. not a full member of the empire, but dangerous nonetheless

 

[CurtSibling]

Do I fit into this Star Wars nut-fest?

 

[Shekwan]

Mobboss is Admiral Ackbar.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Do I fit into this Star Wars nut-fest?

You very clearly fit the mold of Grand Admiral Thrawn!

 

[RedRalph]

Do I fit into this Star Wars nut-fest?

Only lefties can be the empire. But as an honorary bad guy, you can be the Sarlacc

Mobboss is Admiral Ackbar.

Patroklos is Wedge Antilles

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

On second thought, maybe some warlord, like Zinj, is more appropriate. After all, he does hijack a super star destroyer.