Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire

[Traianus]

@ Soam. Here's the link to Pounder's irrigation.

@Gaias. I have to say that I don't play to win in regular civ3 term.s. I play to win in RFRE terms but always end up with too much to do too late. Then along come the germans and huns and persians and I'm losing territory that I need to build the SS with no prospect of getting it back.
This mod requires a certain leap of fate to begin with. You have to accept that you will lose territory to the above baddies but that it will be worth it in the end. But how do you build the SS without Gaul or Byzantium or Egypt or Pontus? Just speaking for myself, I love RFRE but I don't think I'll ever finish a game as it stands.
I really don't think there's any point in 'playing to lose'. Yeah, the empire fell. But Pink, in his wisdom, came up with the SS victory, and for a reason. It's so that people like me will play it. I don't want to play any game I have no chance of winning.

 

[woodelf]

Another 20 turns or so played last night, mostly entitled War with Carthage....

194BC - Finally Germania accepts peace. I keep building Praesidium north, but move my Legions, armies, and ballista south to deal with Carthage's arrogance. (They leave their troops in my land, just begging for me to demand they leave.)

190BC - Latifunda researched, Macedonian Wars up next. With Torraco heavily defended and my boats full of Legions I demand Carthage remove her troops. They refuse and the 2nd war with them is on!

186BC - Olbea is captured, removing the Carthagian presence from the islands around Rome. Near Torraco heavy losses are incurred on both sides so no progress made there. 3 calvary and an elephant land near Syracuse, catching me with several Velites to attack. Not good. I'm losing the naval war, but still inflicting heavy losses on Carthage.

185BC - Stalemate. I can't protect Syracuse in time and can't reach Valentia Edetanorum either. Begrudgingly, I sue for peace and gratefully it's accepted, for now. I move 2 Legions and 2 ballista to Syracuse for the next round of fighting.

182BC - Carthage declares war again. Round 3 begins with me wiping out the cavalry and elephant near Syracuse. My Ballista and Velites also weaken their naval vessels enough for me to stay even on the Seas.

181BC - Legions and Ballista pound Palma and capture the city with relative ease. As a bonus I capture the Castrum Baliaris wonder.

180BC - I lose an army, but capture Valentia Edetanorum. I now have 5 Ballista, 3 armies, several Velites, and several Legions moving deep into Carthage. How far can I go before I reach stiff resistance?

Overall I'm absolutely loving this Mod. I know I strayed from the intended path, but like most people I don't play to win, but to experiment and have fun. Macedonia is next up after I weaken Carthage a bit more.

 

[jvoutsas]

Does Mediolanum have a defensive bonus that I'm unaware of, such as a wonder or something(I know about the rivers surrounding it on two sides, but I didn't check to see if it was on a hill).

I took Ravenna and Genua with minimal effort, no losses, and in one year (turn). So then I sent several legions and some supporting cavalry (4 legions and 2 eques to a city that a year earlier had 3 units in it, according to intelligence reports) to do some quick conquering (thinking that Mediolanum would fall in the following year or two) It took me eight years with a loss of something like 3 Eques and 4 Legions! I had assumed I would need less to take and hold the city. Eventually I had to send one consular army there, and then the second after my first was badly wounded. Only after being pounded by two armies did the little Celtic Capitol fall. It was a grim campaign, and set me back at least ten years in my war on Carthage.

I'm not saying this to complain, as I enjoyed the challenge. I'm just wondering why that one particular city seemed to be so hard to take. The Cisalpine Gauls may need to be toned down a notch, as they were one of the first states assimilated into the Roman Empire, IIRC, and so should really just be pushovers on your way north. The same should probably hold true for Illyria.

I understand it's hard to find a balance. Too much military and their a pain for Rome to conquer, and too little, and some other AI might conquer them before you get there, making for an ahistoric situation. I'll leave it up to you to find that balance.

 

[Gaias]

@ Soam. Here's the link to Pounder's irrigation.

@Gaias. I have to say that I don't play to win in regular civ3 term.s. I play to win in RFRE terms but always end up with too much to do too late. Then along come the germans and huns and persians and I'm losing territory that I need to build the SS with no prospect of getting it back.
This mod requires a certain leap of fate to begin with. You have to accept that you will lose territory to the above baddies but that it will be worth it in the end. But how do you build the SS without Gaul or Byzantium or Egypt or Pontus? Just speaking for myself, I love RFRE but I don't think I'll ever finish a game as it stands.
I really don't think there's any point in 'playing to lose'. Yeah, the empire fell. But Pink, in his wisdom, came up with the SS victory, and for a reason. It's so that people like me will play it. I don't want to play any game I have no chance of winning.

I was being metaphorial when I was typing that bit of text in. Waaaay to preachy and retorical I know. What I mean (and what I should have wrote down in the first place) is that "I", for my gaming experience and no one elses, like to build the wonders soon as they are available. It gives me that challenge that a regular CivIII game does not, something to worry about. I am all for winning by any means neccessary, is just in my opion, waiting to build a wonder until it doesn't give you too much grief is lessing the experience of playing RFRE (to me at least and that is all the really counts).

The bottom line is, have fun and play the game any darn way you are going to play it. Of course play it to win. Just remember that this is still beta, and by not playing RFRE as it was intended to be played, hinders that potential that this mod has and can achieve. Like I said these are my opions and I have no intentions with them, they are just my honest take on certain play styles that I have seen here.

Bah! Whatever! I need to stop thinking and start playing more anyways.

 

[Traianus]

I would defo agree with you on wonders. i build them when available - good or bad. In that respect I want to keep true to history. My problem is that if Jesus Christ was to wait for my Roman Empire to arrive in Israel, then we'd all still be worshiping Mars and Jupiter!!

 

[V. Soma]

Does Mediolanum have a defensive bonus that I'm unaware of, such as a wonder or something(I know about the rivers surrounding it on two sides, but I didn't check to see if it was on a hill).

It may be pure bad luck. I had no problem with taking Mediolanum.
Surely attacking through river may give annyoing results - better avoid that...

 

[V. Soma]

Chronicle:

I don't have now exact date, but I attacked Carthage again around AD 60, this time thorugh Cartenna - and, and...
I lost all my 20 units ,
while killing only the same amount: 20 or 30...
My whole offensive army thus evaporated!!!

I see this a a first step in the decline of my empire.

It is just too late, being in the 1st century AD, I yet have to conquer all Africa and Asia, and I know invasion is about to come from the north...
I will lose this... but it was fun and I got experience...

I consider starting another game at this point, again with no reload...

 

[woodelf]

Ouch V. You can either try to regroup and watch it all crumble or restart. Personally I'd restart with the no reload, but keep this game handy in case you ever need some humble pie.

If and when I get sneak attacked by anyone in my current game I'll be heavily in decline. I can only imagine what sometime AD will bring....

 

[Fictionles]

Wow, I don't think I've ever let Carthage survive past 180BC. I can't imagine how powerful they must be by then. All the more reason to be ruthless I suppose

 

[gringoesteban]

Since Praesidium don't cost upkeep you can make tons of them in cities that can manage to produce them, and for no cost to you.

The problem is that later generation AI units can cut through Praesidium like a hot knife through butter.... And often they will enslave another deadly AI unit when they kill the Praesidium.....

I'm not sure if this approach would work, but perhaps building Miles Auxiliary (A6/D4) or Miles Alarius Germanicus (A8/D4) or Merc Legions (A6/D6) might be a better approach than making piles of Praesidiums. None of those units requires support. A D4 unit inside a well-placed Lime probably stands a better chance of surviving than a D5 Praesidium in a city, plus you could choose the site of the battle -- i.e. on your frontier and hopefully behind a river -- rather than having the AI attack cities deep inside Roman territory.

 

[gringoesteban]

deleted by poster

 

[apolytonCivfan]

three front war:

war wearness is killing my people. Things dont look good.

121BC - 119BC a massive attack on the carthage city of carta ended with its capture, losses of 1 army and 2 legions. Made peace with carthage.

121BC- 115BC defended italy from gaulish attacks. Kept to a policy of defence with legions in the cities and attack only from cities. Plan worked well. Italy is safe from these gauls. Gaul sued for prace after i crushed there armies. Demand all there gold and 5 gold per turn. peace concluded.

119BC - 104BC
In the east things seems to be doomed. The invasion of Macadon by Scythia took its toll. A heroic stand was made at the city of trimontium but the city finally fell, with it the defence of the province. With all legions lost, the province was plundered by scythia. The cities of Trimontium, byzantium, phillippi, thessalonica, doclea, eretria, were captured and looted. A massive counter attack was launched from the city of narona but it too was defeated and the city itself was captured. The upgrade of all remaining legions to legion marius was completed around 108BC but the damage had been done. Of 28 legions fighting in 121BC, only 10 remain. As I prepared for another attack from the city of delphi with a relief force of two new armies, bad news comes my way. The mutual protection treaty with Germany is anounced, Germany enters the war. Game over.

 

[ImhotepII]

RFRE is great!

since last time i was stuck in spain fighting of those barcae armys.... trieng for one hour and then i just resigned... couldn`t get a foot into spain


i decided to start over for i had also placed my scipiones at lillybaeum... wich din`t work out ...


and the game i`m onto now is just teriffic.... though im really late now in the 70s BC having still to conquer all iberia gallia greece minor asia and egypt till 30BC ... argh!mi`m on it for more than 20 hours now... says the game when i quit! ok i`ve slept some inbetween *g*

but i had real fun!!!
playing again at consul level, for somewhere i read it should be winable *g*

so for the timeline again in (...) the historical date and wonders W

272 tarentum and croton capured (272)

first punic war (264-241)
266 lilybaeum (241) and aleria (238)
264 Olbia (238)
262 Caralis (238)
257 Palma (-207)

255 W Mare Nostrum at Neapels

252 valentia editanorum (217)
the war went quite good, minimal losses, although it`s impossible to defeat the chartagian fleet.... decided to capture a stronghold in spain, for last time i wasn`t able to set a foot in it....

this time i left bovianum (now knowing of the defence boni) and went to lil gallia instead. was a quick and no losses war.
241 Ravenna (-218)
240 Genua (177)
238 Mediolanorum (222)

220 W Pharus at Croton

my second punic war (218-201)


218 carthage enteres golden age, but it wont help
219 W Iperiaum Scipionis at Valentia Editanorum
216 Carthago Nova (227)
having a hard time.... cuting through the carthagian forces...
so decided to ask magna graecia to join, wich they did for 160g.
208 Gades (-206)
208 charthage captured narbo from magna graecia
204 Hispalis (-181)
since there was no way round the carthagian fllet i decided to end war.
but what luck! chartage offered me cartenna or narbo for peace.
i decided on cartenna, to have a stronghold in africa.
magna graecia and carthage still at war.....

200 W Praetor at Roma
195 Pantheon at Capua

192 cartahge captures Syracusae from Magna Graecia
wich i can`t tolerate.... so i prepared for war again,
signed right of passage with magna graecia braught armys to cartenna, sicily and near tarraco, where most of the carthagian fleet was heading.

184 chartagians capture Tarraco form magna graecia
i "whitnessed" the capture due to my conuslaris army next to the city, only 2 chartage units and maybe 15-20 ships inside(they had been bombing the city all along)
183 Tarraco ( -197) the 2 units were no deal and carthage lost all the ships
182 Narbo (-121) and Syracusae (212)
bringing my armys to cartenna from carthago nova, was no deal for only 2 seasquares, so i shiped my armys right before the carthagians fleet eyes

175 Cirta (202 given to Nubidian king massinissa)
171 Hippo regius (202 given to Nubidian king massinissa)
167 Utica (146)

155 W Circus Maxismus in roma

praises!
151 Carthago (146), what a deal.... they stored so many units it took me bout 4 rounds at least to get to the hanibal unit... wich took me 2 turns for my troups had to rest.

143 Thapsus
139 Leptis magna
after 77 years war, crathage is finally defeated, all her ships bombing my units din`t do them any good in the end

this was a grand war. although i quite had some losses ...
but the AI work was splendid, having the cartagians capture narbo an tarraco enabled me to round up my rule in spain.
the cartagian capture of syracusae was splendid! in real history syracusae allied with carthage and therefor was captured by rome.
and macedonia declared war on me around the 200s... wich is also historical correct, gladly they signed a peace treaty some time later.

 

[ImhotepII]

peace is more than welcome! since my tresura is low beyond option and my research rate is way beyond 25 turns...

so i decided to have some restoring and building up.

133 Agrigentum founded located between lilybaeum and syracusae
129 Seguntum founded located between Tarraco and valentia

i thought about dealing with magna graecia next and prepared some army near massilia and bovianum, 1 turn before i was finished to declare war on magna graecia, pergamum requested a negotiation. they asked me to join forces against magna graecia and payed me 5g/t (the AI was really suportive in this game)

125 Bovianum only 1 legio lost
123 Massilia (-102) there was only one unit left after pergamum attacked it before.
now all italy and the spain and african cost along all western mediteranean is MINE

117 W portus Ostiae
115 Munda founded between Gades and carthago nova

since i was really late now for the eastern mediteranean......
war on illyria
113 Aquileia (181), damn they have no roads connecting the city to the rest...
the macedoinian pests declared war on me, having some of there troops right in illyrica this could get nasty...
99 Savaria (-166)
93 Salonae (-166)

87 W Imp: extraord. Pompeianus at tarentum
macedonia signed peace again... i had no losses and they pay me 5g/t

85 Narona (-166)
81 Doclea (-166)
77 Apollonia (219)

now seeing that illyica is not so heavy quarded i bit my tounge for not openting the conflict during the last punic war....
i could have send some spare legios and at least captured some of their cities much earlier.....

71 founded Turris Libisonis at Sardinia

well this is it so far....
having most cities suplied with temples fabricas scools by now quite some are civitas well acording to the date of capture.. i`m doing quite good at city improvemt. already having maintainance cost of 190 per turn.

with research....
well having made my way up to triumpirate (still6 truns) by now.
but i`ve spared drama and philosophy out for now.... according to the 12 turns per research rate, i somewhere read would be best, i`m really really late .....
although as i`m 70BC triumphirates is just in time, so to say .)



only 40 years to go until i should at least have gallia, iberia, macedonia, greece, pergamum at least some cities at the phonician coast (tyrus antiochia) and quite improtant egypt... at least the coastal cities inculding alexandria.

so i have to fight at all borders ..... just don´t know how to acomplish...
but I guess macedonia will be next..... my troups are still in illyrica so its just round the corner .




now a few comments to gameplay:


well slaves... haveing them by the dozens... by know i take lil groups of them. 3-5 to build one irrigation 12-16 to build up one mine or road.
wich works quite ok for me but still is desperatly slow.....
having only 3 faber along, the "cultivation" of my imperium is going slowly but could be worse

armys.......
i desperatly need armys!!! i have still my 2 legio consularis and 1 legio scipionis, well actually i never had MORE!
the imperatoris scipionis produced one legio for me and then was obsolent course i reserced macedonian wars, stupid me should have checked back
and having it only build near wheat gave me quite some trouble...
placed it finaly in valentia editoranus,
BUT since mare nostrum was obsolent due second punic war the city lacked resorces for the scipionis army..... only when i connected spain by roads trough the magna graecian teritory did i get 1 legio scipionis.

IS THERE ANOTHER WAY, wich i overlook, TO GET AT LEAST SOME MORE ARMYS, course being stupid like me with only 3 armys a 2 front war is quite difficult to be sucessfuly fought.

another thing... the unconected island cities.... this is quite anoying.. for simple trade by sea should always be possible , in reallity it just takes a ship or even only some wodden thing not drowning to get goods from one city to another via sea.....


i`ve tired to negotiate with numidia during my punic encounters... but i wasn`t able to do any diplomacy with them...
have i done something wrong? or is it on purpous?
for having some distress coused by numidia while invading spain or africa would be a good help!

a minor note... savaria being the broder to germania for quite some time should maybe get some resorce to keep it growing and production on line.
a game or something could be sufficient. just to be able to keep the germanian tribes at bay in the worst case.


but RFRE is really almost perfect, sad that the timeline during punic wars can`t be changed.. but as pink said would be too much work, only i found the idea so irresisting

 

[Fictionles]

i`ve tired to negotiate with numidia during my punic encounters... but i wasn`t able to do any diplomacy with them...
have i done something wrong? or is it on purpous?
for having some distress coused by numidia while invading spain or africa would be a good help!

Make sure you have an embassy in numidia. You won't be able to offer an ROP or MA without one.

I usually try to research 3 techs before I attempt the Macedonian wars. that way I can time it so I can get at least 3 Scipio armies out of it.

 

[ImhotepII]

damn... stupid me .... the embassy.. i totally forgot about that ... DAMN DAMN DAMN

thanks for the wink with the fencepole (as we say in german )


for the scipionis... i really schould have read that with the obselent by macedonian wars... but i guess i was too sleepy , well its the my first real attempt at RFRE ...
so i guess i`ve made quite more mistakles than that .)

 

[woodelf]

Crap, I'm about 3 turns from completing that tech.....

 

[V. Soma]

NEW CHRONICLES

BC 272
The war with Epirus is over and was with of fine victory!
We hadn’t lost much, only one legion and maybe another one or two other units.
Now on up north for another probably quick war with Cisalpine Celts...
Disease strikes Rome down to size 5

BC 268
We attack Cisalpine Celts in a fair way with two groups of armies...
The war starts in a terrible way: we lose one of the cohort legion army!
Some invisible invador unit (???) steals our workers near Capua!

BC 260
Pharus is built in Pisae
We are at Mediolanum. And it was defended only with one unit, phew...
The Celts are dead. I am still shocked that I have lost that army...

I shall calm down and plan for the war against Carthage...

 

[V. Soma]

My plan is to go straight against the Hispanian Cities of Carthage...
And defend Sicily...

 

[V. Soma]

NEW CHRONICLES:

BC 249
I attack Carthage at near Valentia, again, in a fair way...
5 nations join me in the war as allies!

BC 240
The war is raging. I have lost my other army but killed 3 barcaes.
Thus, my Hispanian group is lost... but on the positive side:
I have captured Korzika and Sardinia. I also have Lilybaeum in Sicily.
Groups of Macedonian horses and Achaians head towards Hispania, I like that...
We have Slavery finished.

BC 236
I capture Palma, too. Now, how shall I go on forward?
It is hard to transport forces, I should have at least 6-7 legions to have an assault on Hispanian mainland... btw, I have only a total of 7 legions. 28 velites, though, mean some force!
Carthage goes on capturing Magna Graecian cities, only Massilia left, as now...
7 more turns with the allies.