RL bans return

[Takhisis]

Seems like the punishment of someone being expelled from the district used in Norse times (from which the awesome red hair also comes) has returned. Obviously, it's in the Lothians.

Spoiler news from thescotsman.com :

Burglar brothers run out of East Lothian

By DAVID McCANN
Published on Thursday 4 October 2012 12:07

TWO brothers with a history of housebreaking have been kicked out of East Lothian in the first banning order of its kind served by the council.

Paul and Gordon Williamson, who have more than 30 convictions for burglary, are barred from entering the county under a landmark antisocial behaviour ruling.

It is understood the interim ban was enforced due to the “unsual and extreme case of antisocial behaviour” perpetrated by the pair. A court will consider whether to grant full Asbos later this month.

The duo from Kirkliston, aged 43 and 48, are understood to have racked up the huge list or convictions between June 2006 and May 2011.

The move comes as a rowdy pensioner from Prestonpans and 47-year-old man from Aberlady were both hit with banning orders for playing loud music and acting in a threatening manner.

Today, politicians applauded the council for helping to protect residents from repeat offenders. Iain Gray, MSP for East Lothian, said: “I’m glad the local authority has been prepared to use these powers in this case to stop the disruption caused by these two brothers and I think most residents will be quite happy to know that they are no longer allowed in East Lothian.

“I’m glad in this county we still have a strong antisocial behaviour department who work with police and use the legislation that’s available.”

His views were echoed by East Lothian Provost Ludovic Broun-Lindsay, who said: “This is certainly a warning to anyone else wanting to get up to no good in East Lothian that it will not be tolerated.

“This action is unprecented and I am very glad they have been banned from the county.” But Cllr Broun-Lindsay said he believes the banning powers should be restricted to extreme cases and not a penalty to be used casually. “I would not favour these being applied willy nilly because it’s a fairly extreme form of punishment. These powers should be used sparingly but if necessary they should be used again.”

In the other cases, William McMillan, 66, who lives in Wilson Avenue, was punished with a two-year Asbo for playing loud music, shouting, swearing, and acting in a threatening manner. He is also banned from inviting Isobel Stewart, of Middleshot Square, Prestonpans, into his flat.

A council spokesman said the granting of a full order “underlines the fact that his behaviour must change”.

And Bruce Wright, 47, has been banned from disturbing neighbours by being “excessively noisy” and failing to control his dogs at his home in West Main Street, Aberlady.

So, forcing people to make like a tree. Is this good or bad?

• What happens if someone's so troublesome that instead of being done by a local court it's done by a federal tribunal?
• Could someone be ordained away from their own country in the present international legal environment?
  • It's somewhat acceptable if you're a foreigner, but if you were to be expelled from the country you're a citizen of, where would you go?
• Is there any legal grounds for such a ban to be made nationwide, assuming someone was enough of a berk to cause trouble across all districts but never enough to be jailed?

Relevantly, here's what an [wiki=Anti-Social_Behaviour_Order]Asbo[/wiki] is. It's related to a restraining order:

The orders restrict behaviour in some way, by prohibiting a return to a certain area or shop, or by restricting public behaviour such as swearing or drinking alcohol.​

It would be good if opinions came from people who actually have a grasp on law, hence why I put it in the Chamber.

 

[Glassfan]

It sounds like two different processes covered by the same term. The obnoxious men were ordered to stop their rude behaviors, while the two brothers were actually expelled from the county.

Restraining orders don't seem to work all that well here in the colonies. A woman "protected" from a violent boyfriend by a restraining order has little or no protection at all.

Expulsion sounds wrong. In "Norse times" expelling criminals from the village meant they had to live in the wilds - ie, punishment. Nowadays, it just means dumping your evildoers on another unsuspecting community. It seems irresponsible and cheap.

In the last century, federal prosecuters dealt with the Italian Mafia by extradition to their native Italy - until that country began to refuse them. There can be any such extradition of natural born citizens. Other nations would refuse them and there are no wilds left.

No insult intended, but this sounds like a "cheap" strategy. Instead of having to spend money on prisons, rehabilitation, and guards, you simple shuffle your criminals around from place to place.

 

[Virote_Considon]

Yeah, people can be exiled. Europe needs Russia so we can exile all our troublemakers to nature's prison, Siberia.

 

[Mise]

Banning someone from a town or region seems pretty stupid, but ASBOs have proved pretty popular among the (usually poor) victims of petty crime and nuisances that ASBOs are used against.

We already have involuntary exile from a community - it's called prison.

 

[ace99]

Tradition should be followed and they should be sent to Australia.

 

[Mise]

I would happily be exiled to Australia... Sun, sea, and no Scottish people.

 

[Ajidica]

Unfortunately, there are Aussies.
Dingo!

 

[Virote_Considon]

I would happily be exiled to Australia... Sun, sea, and no Scottish people.

Sun, sea and spiders. Deadly, deadly spiders

 

[bhsup]

Why not just haul them off to the Isle of Wight or some other prison if they're that bad? This essentially just shoves these criminals off on some other region, assuming they'll obey the ruling to begin with.

 

[innonimatu]

Yeah, people can be exiled. Europe needs Russia so we can exile all our troublemakers to nature's prison, Siberia.

Siberia as a prison sucks.

 

[Takhisis]

It sounds like two different processes covered by the same term. The obnoxious men were ordered to stop their rude behaviors, while the two brothers were actually expelled from the county.

Restraining orders don't seem to work all that well here in the colonies. A woman "protected" from a violent boyfriend by a restraining order has little or no protection at all.

Expulsion sounds wrong. In "Norse times" expelling criminals from the village meant they had to live in the wilds - ie, punishment. Nowadays, it just means dumping your evildoers on another unsuspecting community. It seems irresponsible and cheap.

In the last century, federal prosecuters dealt with the Italian Mafia by extradition to their native Italy - until that country began to refuse them. There can be no such extradition of natural born citizens. Other nations would refuse them and there are no wilds left.

No insult intended, but this sounds like a "cheap" strategy. Instead of having to spend money on prisons, rehabilitation, and guards, you simple shuffle your criminals around from place to place.

Well, that's what i'm asking about. Eventually you run out of place to shove them to.

Yeah, people can be exiled. Europe needs Russia so we can exile all our troublemakers to nature's prison, Siberia.

Russia!

Banning someone from a town or region seems pretty stupid, but ASBOs have proved pretty popular among the (usually poor) victims of petty crime and nuisances that ASBOs are used against.

We already have involuntary exile from a community - it's called prison.

Well, if they're popular it must be for something. As was said above, temporary banishment is cheaper than prison. IMO it's just kicking the ball out of the field.

Tradition should be followed and they should be sent to Australia.

I would happily be exiled to Australia... Sun, sea, and no Scottish people.

Wrong, an uncle of mine moved there some time ago. Last I heard of him, the Aussies have allowed him to reproduce.

 

[Traitorfish]

I would happily be exiled to Australia... Sun, sea, and no Scottish people.

Australians are just Scotsmen in trousers.

 

[warpus]

My understanding of the term "anti-social behaviour" is someone who doesn't go out on Friday night, keeps to himself, doesn't like hanging out in crowds, etc.. You know.. someone who is against socializing.. Anti-social

In Scotland it means.. breaking and entering, letting your dogs bark loud at night, playing loud music.. that sort of thing? They're making it sound like not conforming to socially accepted standards of niceness is anti-social, but I've never heard of the term being used like that

Is this just some sort of an arcane legal term that's in use, or .. what? English is my third language and every once in a while I come across a common term that I am not familiar with or have been using incorrectly.. For example, last year somebody asked me to throw something in the "Corrugated cardboard" bin, and I had no idea what the hell the word "corrugated" meant

So what am I missing here?

 

[ace99]

Australians are just Scotsmen in trousers.

What are Kiwi's? Welshman?

 

[Traitorfish]

It would explain the sheep.

 

[ace99]

Edit: This is what happens when you drink too much vodka.

 

[Cheetah]

My understanding of the term "anti-social behaviour" is someone who doesn't go out on Friday night, keeps to himself, doesn't like hanging out in crowds, etc.. You know.. someone who is against socializing.. Anti-social

I've used anti-social the same way, but I suspect the more correct term would be a-social...

In Scotland it means.. breaking and entering, letting your dogs bark loud at night, playing loud music.. that sort of thing? They're making it sound like not conforming to socially accepted standards of niceness is anti-social, but I've never heard of the term being used like that

These things sound far more anti-social to me.

Also, the idea of banishing criminals and other anti-socials, does appeal to me. I suggest we set of certain islands for the purpose, like in Brave New World.

Iceland, the Falklands, Crete, Hawaii, etc., sounds like perfect places to send the unworthy.

 

[Glassfan]

Also, the idea of banishing criminals and other anti-socials, does appeal to me. I suggest we set of certain islands for the purpose, like in Brave New World.

Iceland, the Falklands, Crete, Hawaii, etc., sounds like perfect places to send the unworthy.

But doesn't that risk the breeding of a race of evil super-beings who might take over the Earth?

 

[Cheetah]

So that's how the Lord of the Flies ended...!

Well, I can cross that book of my to-read list now.

 

[holy king]

My understanding of the term "anti-social behaviour" is someone who doesn't go out on Friday night, keeps to himself, doesn't like hanging out in crowds, etc.. You know.. someone who is against socializing.. Anti-social

actually, it's what americans call dissocial personality disorder.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder

you probably know it as "sociopathy".