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Role Play Challenge: Stalin's Iron Fist!

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by madscientist, May 19, 2008.

  1. dubrown

    dubrown Prince

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    Artillery has no requirement if I recall correctly, though missing out on Cannons is a drawback. For tanks you only need Oil. So modern era warfare is survivable without iron but harder without oil. The middle ages will be harder though without iron, maces is both copper and iron so there's a lifesaver if copper is present and not iron. Though attacking rifles with catapults and trebs won't be a fun adventure so the hardest loss of missing out on iron would be the cannons.
     
  2. bestje

    bestje Big Game Hunter

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    pillaging and razing the AIs key core cities early on is a good idea, you need to slow their teching and cripple their production

    on your choice of national wonders; i agree that oxford U and NE are essential, i think HE as well because you will mostly be building units and the overflow gold will help to support your army. I'm in favour of getting IW but without coal definitely get NP unless you have no health issues.
    I think getting GT will be essential because defying resolutions otherwise will cripple you, also WW will be a significant problem as you will have few happy resources

    so in summary i say go for: OxU, NE, HE, GT and IW if you aren't going to produce 1 unit a turn and then either WP or NP if you have big health problems
     
  3. ChristofferC

    ChristofferC Chieftain

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    The stonehenge is very cheap for two early GP points. I built stonehenge+great wall+pyramids by ~2000-1800 BC in my game so I got some really early great people.
     
  4. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    Please, no Henge :wallbash: if you want to sink hammers in a worthwhile early wonder, do the GW + Mids + Oracle ( perfectly doable with a Ind leader, especially if you Oracle MC for a forge ).... HG is a good wonder to do as well, along with the TGL ;)

    My big advice is to use the diplo well... in OCC you normally look far weaker than the AI and that normally translates in more DOWs.... and if you can put them to war eachother, besides diverting them from you, it depletes their armies..... Pretty effective, if you ask me ;).
     
  5. madscientist

    madscientist RPC Supergenius

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    My view on wonders

    National Wonders: NE/Oxford/GT/HE in that order. Most likely WP (we have stone) if victory looks achievable at the cossack age, NP if we need to go to the modern era. GT is a must have since we plan to war alot and WW may be an issue.

    World Wonders: GW/pyramids/Stonehenge/Oracle/SoZ/GL in that preference order. Industrious/Stone means stonehenge and we probably want to nab Myst/Med/Priest early for the Oracle and a MC slingshot. THen we are IW and machinery from crossbows and very good early defense.
     
  6. ChristofferC

    ChristofferC Chieftain

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    My ideas about the early game:

    I think you should start out by researching agri, masonry, wheel and bw and build some early wonders. You probably want AH or archery pretty early too so you can get some defenders and pottery.

    After that I see two alternatives:

    You could go for priesthood, build the oracle and choose CoL (for caste system, the religion and to get CS earlier) or machinery. Someone else might get it before you, though, if you build too many stone wonders.

    Another alternative would be an early war. If you have copper, research construction and attack with axes and catapults. If you don't have copper, research horseback riding and construction and kick some AI butt with elephants and catapults.

    Later technology aims should be literature (for GL, NE), drama (for GT if WW is a problem or if your city is getting big) and CS (bureaucracy is HUGE in OOC).
     
  7. ChristofferC

    ChristofferC Chieftain

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    A more detailed recap of my own game until 860 AD:
    Spoiler :
    Researched agri, masonry, wheel, pottery While building a worker and hooking up the resources. After that I built mines on the hills.

    Build order: worker, warrior, gw, stonehenge, granary, pyramids.

    Around this time I met my neighbors Ragnar, Lizzy, Hannibal and Joao.

    While building the pyramids I discovered bw so I chopped one tile to speed up the build. Unfortunately no bronze.

    Then I researched priesthood, built the oracle while researching writing and chose CoL. I sent the missionary to Joao. He converted to my religion, but later switched to the dominating religion hinduism.

    Here I realized that I had virtually NO defenses and it was ~1200 BC. Time to research AH and build some chariots. I built chariots while researching horseback riding and construction.

    When I had 8 chariots or so I attacked Lizzy and destroyed one of her cities. Three or so catas and a horse archer joined the stack and Lizzys second city was destroyed.

    Somewhere around here I got alphabet, IW, archery, fishing, meditation and monarchy from trades.

    My stack was severely wounded and her capital was my next target so I sued for peace and got aesthetics. During the 10 turn peace I built some catas and elephants. They joined the stack and this time I had enough attackers to destroy her four lightly defended cities.

    During this time I researched CS, monotheism (switched civics to beurocracy and organized religion), literacy, drama, paper. In hindsight I should have waited with paper until after metal casting and machinery.

    When the war vs Lizzy was coming to an end i wanted to stir the pot a bit so I gave Joao CS for war with Hannibal. Ragnar couldn't resist the opportunity and attacked Joao.

    After Lizzy was exterminated I built GL, NE and GT in 15 turns or so.

    Around here Joao asked me to join him in the war, and since I was planning to attack Hannibal anyway I accepted. The remainings of my stack destroyed two of his cities while I built more elephants/catas.

    During the war I researched metal casting and got started on machinery.

    That's where I ended last night.
     
  8. Kev

    Kev Hired Goon

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    With OCC and conquest is there not the serious danger of the AI's flowing into land vacated and in turn making them harder and harder to deal with? A very intriguing game as usual, Mad, and I am very curious to see what's what.

    Haven't done an OCC game since my Civ II days.
     
  9. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Yes, this and AI's forcing capitulations off each other are major issues. There's few things that suck as badly as DoWing 3 civs at the same time in a OCC because you HAVE to just to win conquest. Well, such a scenario seldom leads to a win though :(.
     
  10. madscientist

    madscientist RPC Supergenius

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    YEs, this is an issue. However, I have an idea how to handle this based on my off-line version of the game. Burn everything to the ground. Let the AI settle those lands, and PAY for the upkeep. It ends up being a disadvantage to the AI if they settle lands without cottages/farms/improvements.

    In my off-line game I have cossacks and have
    1) weakened Ghengis severely to the point that he's a vassal of Cyrus.
    2) Got Cyrus and Charlemagne at each other's throats.
    3) Almost utterly destroyed Suliman (he has 1 city left and I had to get off to work!).
    4) Once Suliman is finished I will finish Ghengis and attack Cyrus who has to get through Charlemagne to get at me.

    Just an example of how I plan to manipulate things in the RPC.
     
  11. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    Early analysis
    1 Wheat Grass= +4 f
    1 Plains Stone= -1 f +4? (or +5?)
    1 Oasis = +1 F
    1 Plains Hill = -2f +4
    1 Grass Hill= -1f +3
    7 Flat Grass= 7(+1 f) = +7 f
    1 Plain visible= 0 +1
    3? Plains= 3(0+1)= 0 +3
    3? Grass Hill= 3(-1f +3)= -3f +9
    1? Floodplains= +2f
    City = +2f +1
    [7 Forests]
    5 riverside non city tiles
    so based on Farms+Mines+Quarries, Max 'Early' city = +9f + 25
    (counting Civil Service.. but only 3 tiles are not irrigatable)

    7 tiles that are only +1 and no commerce (so can be avoided if hitting health cap)

    running high Specialists=+8 f with 2 working... so
    pop 6= 2 workers 4 Specialists
    pop 9= 4 workers 5 Specialists
    pop 12=6 workers 6 specialists
    pop 15=8 woerkers 7 specialists
    pop 18=10 workers 8 specialists

    Max Hammers
    6=18
    7=19
    Cap 8= +1f +21 h
    9=22
    10=23
    11=24
    12=25
     
  12. Abegweit

    Abegweit Anarchist trader

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    This is Marathon and you have stone. You should be able to get all these wonders and lots more. An industrious OCC civ is a wonder-happy civ. :D

    When I do OCC conquest, I turtle until tanks. Then all hell breaks loose. :goodjob: I'll be interested in seeing if anyone can make serious headway before that.
     
  13. NintendoTogepi

    NintendoTogepi Noble Pacifist

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    Stonehenge is good for Great Prophet points, they're possibly the best early Great Person to settle. It also lets you know where you are on the map, and the free monument helps too.
     
  14. Abegweit

    Abegweit Anarchist trader

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    A monument is useless (1 CPT is nothing) but Stonehenge is decent. Actually, Prophets suck pretty bad in OCC because you don't have much of anything to do with the money. Still, one is OK. GPPs are always good and so are the hammers.

    The best GPs in OCCs are spies, engineers and scientists.
     
  15. ChristofferC

    ChristofferC Chieftain

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    I played to the finish today.
    Spoiler :
    So... the war continued. I razed a few more of Hanniabl's cities, but my stack was getting smaller and was badly hurt, so I sued for peace and got feudalism if I remember correctly. During the peace I discovered education and built Oxford University and Heroic Epic.

    Somewhere around here I discovered engineering.

    Then I produced some macemen, trebuchets, catas, knights and two pikemen and declared war on Ragnar. I razed one of his cities that was right on my border. Then I waited for him to counterattack and slaughtered his big stack. After that I destroyed all of his cities except for one before I sued for peace and got theology and music.

    Techwise I went for gunpowder, chemistry, philosophy, liberalism (took steel), printing press during the war.

    After ten turns I destroyed his last city. During the peace between the wars I discovered banking and replaceable parts and built some cannons.

    After finishing him off I took a little break fighting until I discovered rifling. Then I started pumping out rifles , and when I had seven or so I attacked Joao. He didn't stand a chance. It's too easy when you attack longbows and knights with rifles... After he was exterminated I easily exterminated Hannibal too. I continued pumping out riflemen during the whole war.

    The AI's were in standstill wars with each other during pretty much the whole time, and no one declared war on me, which probably helped quite a bit. I think that the war I started between Joao and Hannibal was key to my success.

    I finished in 1695 with the score 15783.

    Oh, and I settled most of the great people I got, except for one scientist that founded an academy and one scientist that bulbed education. I got four great artists which sucked. :(
    Oh, and this was my second OCC ever. I must play this mode some more in the future cause it's hella fun. :)
     
  16. madscientist

    madscientist RPC Supergenius

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    I disgaree on the settled prophets. Gold is very valuable in the OCC.

    Example my off-line game (sorry to keep referring to this, but it's a discussion point). I have thousands in saved gold. I am currently building CR III macemen in 1 turn and quickly upgrading them to rifles, rather than building a combat III, pinch rifle in 3 turns. Cossacks are different in that you cannot build knights at the same time, but you can build maces and rifles simultaneously.
     
  17. siggboy

    siggboy Monarch/Epic

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    I turtled until Rifles/Cavs, then started attacking the AIs from weakest to strongest. You won't have to wait for tanks, and also not for Cannons (Trebs are good enough for most cities).

    I also bribed them into wars with eachother to keep them off my throat and weaken them. I would say that that's pretty important, but easy to do since you will have a tech lead for a long time.
     
  18. CCRunner

    CCRunner Deity

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    I usually do that too. However, in this game I turtled until warriors then annhilated the world.:lol: I did lower the difficulty to settler though so maybe I shouldn't count.:devil:

    When I did the game a second time, for real, I used rifles and cossacks.
     
  19. Abegweit

    Abegweit Anarchist trader

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    Why can't you build one-turn rifles? As for saving gold for thousands of years, that's just silly. :crazyeye: What a waste.
     
  20. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Gold has considerable trade value. Thousands of gold = bought DoWs, without giving up techs (though the AI will just use it for that, since it gets to upgrade everything for what feels like 6 gold per unit or something anyway).

    Gold can buy techs from friendly AI's, also.
     

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