No. Their advantage is that they have the +1 bonus from the start.
Rome Overhaul
- Thread starter iOnlySignIn
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iOnlySignIn
Prince$s
I've seen Legions with shovels for a long time now.
I think it's a fitting image of the Romans' genius at military engineering. But you did it way better than I could. The Roman Roads looks like they're actually made of concrete. Very neat!It is also nice that later European civs such as France and Spain can benefit from Roman Roads built by Rome. So that this feature is not merely a second UP of sorts for Rome only.
Agreed. Forums should be included. Other building choices I can think of are Walls, Pagan Temple, and Courthouse.
I realize now that this UHV ties up nicely with the new UP, just like how the Four Great Inventions UHV ties up with the Chinese UP. That should make it more fun.
I think a Christianity related goal is more suited for Byzantium. Especially with regards to interactions with Islam.
As for Rome, Theology's purpose is that it enables Theocracy (but so does Parthenon). The Roman Emperors (and their close relatives) were routinely deified, but as Roman gods instead of Christian Saints. That is until Constantine the Great of course, who is represented by Byzantium spawning with Theocracy.
Yes, especially since Rome is one of the popular civs to go for Domination.
Although there may be exceptions. The Dutch UP goes stronger in proportion to the number of cities you have. The Russian/Muscovy UP in RFCE is explicitly related to the number of cities. Yet both civs are more or less balanced.
Thank you Leoreth! I foresee that the new Rome will become as popular as your other two masterpieces, England and China. May there be even more great works like this in the future!
Hippo8085
Shaken, not stirred
Perhaps some Roman roads could be included in the 600 AD scenario? This alone would make me never want to do France in the 600 AD.
Good point.
iOnlySignIn
Prince$s
It would be natural to include Roman Roads in 600 AD maps. The did last well after the collapse of Western Roman Empire itself IRL. Some are used even today.
Or more generally obtain X number of luxuries. This would encourage Roman trade with India.
But I think a Tech goal would be more exciting, just as the English and Chinese Tech goals. Resource goals (e.g. Carthage, Netherlands) are not as fun IMO unless the resource is Oil (America).
That would be almost impossible (unless you invade China and raze a few cities or something) due to how China beelines Gunpowder with their UP.
Hippo8085
Shaken, not stirred
Be first to enter medieval and Renaissance eras. Requires teching ahead of China, and semi-historical.
Tomorrow's Dawn
Heroes Never Die
^I don't understand the rationale for such a goal.
Would you care to explain?
Would you care to explain?
Hippo8085
Shaken, not stirred
I was thinking along the lines of Feudalism-Italian Renaissance. Now looking back that is sort of just a filler goal.
Qiu
Warlord
Your former idea recalls me an old latin saying "Ex oriente lux, ex occidente lex", "From the East, Light; from the West, Law." It has been said that the Roman Law and Chritistiny are two major spiritual legacies from the Romans. So if it is possibile to set the 3rd UHV as the representation of both the vention and spread of Roman law and Chritistiny ?
strijder20
Wallowing in irony
Discover Divine Right and Constitution by 1100 AD?
Just an idea, if we want the third UHV to represent post-Imperial Rome, I think it should represent the Papacy. Also I like the idea of Italy being able to spawn if Rome is unstable. This way, we could have both the Italian city-states and the Papal States in the game. Or is it impossible for both of those civilizations to exist at the same time?
Hippo8085
Shaken, not stirred
I think it would be possible as Italy is no longer a respawn but I think Independents would do a better job than Rome. I am not too into seeing Augustus Caesar? as a candidate for the Apostolic Palace. This makes me think there should be a post-Byzantine leader for Rome.
Do you think it would be worth it to include the Papal States as a non-playable faction, a la RFC Europe? It could make the HRE UHV of controlling the Apostolic Palace more closely resemble the Investiture Controversy. I say non-playable so that we can give them a UU, UB, and some relevance to events like the proposed Crusades, without having to worry about coming up with any UHVs. My apologies if this is the wrong thread for this suggestion.
ImNotHere
Warlord
I don't think it is feasible to have a separate Papal States minor civ. There just isn't enough room in Europe let alone Italy. If anything, the Papal States is represented as the leader of the AP. I think that if Leoreth decides to implement a crusades mechanic though, the leader of the AP should get to decide if/when/where the Crusade takes place.
Giving the AP some power via the crusades is a good idea, since currently you just get elected to not pass any resolutions. And if for some reason you don't get elected, you just vote no for every ending war and trade embargo resolutions they suggest. There is really no point doing otherwise.
Locutus_Morti
Prince
For the Tech goal, would Civil Service be appropriate in lieu of Constitution?
Perhaps, be the first to discover Machinery, Theology, and Civil Service?
Perhaps, be the first to discover Machinery, Theology, and Civil Service?
Okay, the new third goal is committed. It's first to discover Theology, Machinery and Civil Service.
iOnlySignIn
Prince$s
Testing the new Rome. It's excellent. I'm even conquering in historical order, at (near) historical dates, and founding Catholicism in 20 BC. I even "rescued" Egypt from Greece (Greece took 2 cities from Egypt) and then killed Egypt (who was on Pleased and asked to be my Vassal) afterwards in the 1st century BC.
The only thing lacking is that Cleopatra never showed up.A few things:
- Celts/Gaul is the most boring part. Celtic Paris never spawned even though my Culture does not cover it. The Celts/Gauls are also absurdly weak compared to the Germanic Barbarians (on Emperor, Barbs spawn more, but not Celts?).
- Infrastructure goal can be changed to: 6 Barracks, 5 Aqueducts, 4 Amphitheatres, 3 Forums.
- 3 cities in France part in the expansion goal should be toned down to 2 IMO, since it appears that Marseilles (and the entire Provence coast) no longer count as "France" making it really hard to place 3 reasonable cities in "France".
- Perhaps Rome needs a few more free units before Feudalism?
Augustus reformed the Legions, cutting down their number to 28. I was controlling the historical empire of Augustus in 20 BC with 30 Legions (and no other land unit), and my unit maintenance cost was around 15 per turn. You need around 25 Legions just for garrisoning all your cities.
Thanks for the feedback. I'll use your suggestions for the required buildings. And I think including the Mediterranean coast for France makes more sense.
iOnlySignIn
Prince$s
Thank you!
I think the Infrastructure UHV's date should be moved earlier though:
Christianity gives Organized Religion bonus (I can't resist the free Catholic Churches!), which, compounded with the Roman UP and Apostolic Palace, makes any Infrastructure UHV too easy.
I suggest 100 AD (Trajan's rule, generally considered the peak of the Roman Empire).
