[RD] Russia invades Ukraine V: The Turning Tide

[r16]

the thing to be happy about the factory thing T-62s is that it will take 3 years to upgrade 800 tanks and sanctions must be hurting deep enough to prevent production of new tanks . That T-62s were taken from the mothballs because of heavy casualties was the happiness thing two or three months or so ago .

 

[Zardnaar]

the thing to be happy about the factory thing T-62s is that it will take 3 years to upgrade 800 tanks and sanctions must be hurting deep enough to prevent production of new tanks . That T-62s were taken from the mothballs because of heavy casualties was the happiness thing two or three months or so ago .

Even without sanctions they couldn't replace the tanks fast enough.

They recently delivered something like a dozen or two. At the rate they're losing them it's around 2-4 days worth depending on who you believe.

 

[Civinator]

So those tanks are at least 45 years old. I wonder how the spare parts supply is. I guess the upside is that they were all analog and have no dependence on anything tech related made after 1975.

Could the T-62 perform better than more modern tanks under the conditions of an EMP ?

 

[EvaDK]

T62 quite antiquated by modern standard, but these tanks still in service in large number in smaller (poor) nations
Crazy to think Russia planing to restore so many into service when they should still have thousands of far superior T64, T72 stockpiled.
Tanks losses in Ukraine must be extremely high, and Russia falling back on its usual stratergy of quanity.

Could be as high as 40-50% of all active combat condition MBTs in the Russian arsenal. Russian combined arms doctrine is dreadful; as if their generals have no clue how to use mechanized units.

Wagner units fighting for Putin are also getting deleted left and right.

 

[keli]

‘We’ll end up in World War III’: Trump says US ‘saying exactly the wrong thing’ to Russia

Former US president Donald Trump has slammed the United States for "saying exactly the wrong thing" to Russia following President Joe Biden's remarks on the "prospect of Armageddon" amid President Vladimir Putin's nuclear threats. Mr Trump said the Biden administration should be pushing Russia...

www.skynews.com.au

 

[Verbose]

‘We’ll end up in World War III’: Trump says US ‘saying exactly the wrong thing’ to Russia

Former US president Donald Trump has slammed the United States for "saying exactly the wrong thing" to Russia following President Joe Biden's remarks on the "prospect of Armageddon" amid President Vladimir Putin's nuclear threats. Mr Trump said the Biden administration should be pushing Russia...

www.skynews.com.au

Fine by me, as long as Prez Trump specifically demands Putin must talk directly to Zelensky – and then we will see.

But probably he will half-ass it, end up getting rolled by Putin, and try to sign stuff over he has no right to sign over...

 

[Kyriakos]

Fine by me, as long as Prez Trump specifically demands Putin must talk directly to Zelensky – and then we will see.

But probably he will half-ass it, end up getting rolled by Putin, and try to sign stuff over he has no right to sign over...

Ww3 will come, anyway. Imagine a species so dumb that it can't even wait a few decades for smarter people to have working defenses against nukes, before starting the inevitable world war.
Assuming there will still be history books afterwards, Ukraine will be in the chapter about the late interwar period leading to ww. No one likely will care about what happened to it, following what happened to them.

Moderator Action: Please stay on topic. leif

 

[Gorbles]

Ww3 will come, anyway. Imagine a species so dumb that it can't even wait a few decades for smarter people to have working defenses against nukes, before starting the inevitable world war.
Assuming there will still be history books afterwards, Ukraine will be in the chapter about the late interwar period leading to ww. No one likely will care about what happened to it, following what happened to them.

Just Ukraine? Bit of a weird hypothetical scenario there

 

[Kyriakos]

Just Ukraine? Bit of a weird hypothetical scenario there

I mean it will be in the very end (or near the very end) of that chapter. Others were before it

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Could the T-62 perform better than more modern tanks under the conditions of an EMP ?

Modern military grade electronic equipment is shielded against EMP, at least in the west, probably modern Russian tanks too. Otoh a T-62 may use primitive electronic components as vacuum valves and such which are intrinsically more resilient. And finally EMP effects on vehicles are not clear, it affects much more things connected to the general grid since it is very long conductive wires that absorb huge amounts of energy from the EMP. So, maybe.

 

[Kyriakos]

On a different note, I read that Russia currently has something like 100.000 soldiers in the front - and some recruits who aren't combat experienced, so don't matter that much - while Ukraine has over 600.000.
While Russia has to defend the rest of its massive land, couldn't it at some point actually bring in vast numbers of reservists? (at least over a million, no need to fully mobilize before the actual world war).

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Ww3 will come, anyway. Imagine a species so dumb that it can't even wait a few decades for smarter people to have working defenses against nukes, before starting the inevitable world war.

Putin started the war.

 

[Kyriakos]

Putin started the war.

But not the world war.

 

[saamohod]

But not the world war.

Neither did Hitler.
He only wanted Austria, and Sudetenland, and Poland, and Lebensraum to the East etc. Because those were "rightfully German lands".

 

[Kyriakos]

Neither did Hitler.
He only wanted Austria, and Sudetenland, and Poland, and Lebensraum to the East etc. Because those were "rightfully German lands".

There was an understanding with Britain and France that invading Poland will lead to them declaring war on Germany. US hasn't declared war on Russia even now, so this isn't a world war => hasn't started.

 

[Gorbles]

Determining the start of the war (or a world war) as being the international response to the start of said war seems like a good way to break the spacetime continuum to me

The start is when someone does the transgression. Or we could go further back along the chain, r.e. whatever the modern comparison to the Archduke is. Which gets messy, because while "Russia literally annexed Crimea" is a good starting point, obviously those in favour of Russia's reasons for their actions will talk about the Donbass, etc.

But at the very least, let's not try and define it as "the fault of the people that decided to oppose the invasion". That's both simplistic and wrong.

 

[saamohod]

US hasn't declared war on Russia even now

I hate to break it to you, but neither Ukraine or Russia declared war on each other, despite the fact that the war has been raging for months and the only means not utilized in this warfare is the nuclear arsenal of Russia. "Declarations of war" seems to be an outdated concept nowadays, but it has its place in games like Civilization.
So, back to my response to your statement that Putin didn't start the World War: neither did Hitler. He only wanted some lands and their inhabitants because he deemed them rightfully his. And he expected the other countries to cower to his "rightful" demands.

 

[Kyriakos]

Determining the start of the war (or a world war) as being the international response to the start of said war seems like a good way to break the spacetime continuum to me

The start is when someone does the transgression. Or we could go further back along the chain, r.e. whatever the modern comparison to the Archduke is. Which gets messy, because while "Russia literally annexed Crimea" is a good starting point, obviously those in favour of Russia's reasons for their actions will talk about the Donbass, etc.

But at the very least, let's not try and define it as "the fault of the people that decided to oppose the invasion". That's both simplistic and wrong.

I am clearly not claiming anything about it being the fault of anyone (let alone Ukraine).
Just stating that it is a bit peculiar to argue that Germany didn't start ww2, since in that case it was known to them that invading Poland would immediately lead to war with Britain and France (world war), while we aren't in a world war now despite Ukraine being invaded.
Of course you can start a world war in other ways, but in both such wars they started when one major power declared on another (in world war one, it was Germany declaring war against Russia, in August 1 iirc).

I hate to break it to you, but neither Ukraine or Russia declared war on each other, despite the fact that the war has been raging for months and the only means not utilized in this warfare is the nuclear arsenal of Russia. "Declarations of war" seems to be an outdated concept nowadays, but it has its place in games like Civilization.
So, back to my response to your statement that Putin didn't start the World War: neither did Hitler. He only wanted some lands and their inhabitants because he deemed them rightfully his. And he expected the other countries to cower to his "rightful" demands.

If there is no war, there is no world war either
And no, it would have been like with Hitler (start of a world war), if other main powers actually had declared war on Russia. They haven't so it isn't yet.

Putin can still start the world war, of course - but he'd have to declare against one of those rival main powers.

 

[Gedemon]

On a different note, I read that Russia currently has something like 100.000 soldiers in the front - and some recruits who aren't combat experienced, so don't matter that much - while Ukraine has over 600.000.
While Russia has to defend the rest of its massive land, couldn't it at some point actually bring in vast numbers of reservists?

That's exactly what they are doing right now. We'll see the results in a few months.

 

[Kyriakos]

That's exactly what they are doing right now. We'll see the results in a few months.

Iirc those drafted now aren't battle-tested, though. Not that it would be very easy to get battle-tested units, but maybe they have some from minor conflicts (Syria, Libya etc).