S-04 HC's worst nightmare
- Thread starter sooooo
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mike p
King
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- Mar 2, 2005
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sooooo said:
Let's just say I didn't get the memo sooooo. Hope this turnset was worth the wait!
1190 AD All appears well in the Incan empire, but I'm really at a loss as to what to do. I trade bananas to Hatty for 8 gpt and sell our map to Vicky and Kublai for a total of 230 gold. Rather than wait for the AI to come around and extort, I ramp up science to 100% and burn off our excess gold in a couple of turns.
1196 AD I'm really not sure what to do, so I figure building up troops up north would be good, and pulling back from the barb city will keep our stack in our borders and save a paltry amount of gold. I'm sure something will come up though.
1202 AD Science rate back down to 60%.
1208 AD Loius declares on Monty. Now it's only a matter of time until he asks us to join in, so I peel a few units off from the north and bring them down south for the inevitable reinvasion of Azteca. It's good to have a purpose again!
1214 AD There's some action just north of the border:
1220 AD Education is done. No one else has both prereqs for Education at this time, so Liberalism should be a lock. I start researching it.
1226 AD Start a University in Cuzco. I'm also thinking about cottaging that Tundra. With a cottage we start at 1f 3c and it only gets better from there.
Checking the diplo screens, I ask Hatty for 200 gold, she's happy to comply. I tell Louis how much she loves me and he's willing to donate 250 to the cause. Science is ramped up again and we're speeding towards Liberalism. Vicky has Engineering, I notice.
1232 AD What's a guy to do?
Since she claims she already has macemen, Iron is only going to give her pikemen and crossbowman, so I give in. Now that I'm writing it up, I also realize that iron is needed for Knights, so maybe I goofed here.
1238 AD Our 10 turns of peace with Monty are up. Any wagers on how long it takes Loius to come knocking?
1244 AD So much for Red Dot and Red Circle. I switch Machu Picchu from a granary to a theater so we can at least claim the whales.
1250 AD If you wagered two turns, you win!!
1256 AD Let me be the first to offer our new god a peanut.
1262 ADMonty's sending an elephant up to harass Cuzco. We've got nothing on the scene to counter it though.
1268 AD It's the battle for Teotihuacan. Sure the city has 60% cultural bonuses and is on a hill top, but we are righteous Hindus. (And Monty has it garrisoned entirely with units that get no defensive bonus. It's like he thinks this is S-02 or something.)
So I send our CR2 Swordsman in first against a War Elephant that Louis has soften up for us. We lose at 86%. Then I remember I brought a spearman along, who kills a HA. Not liking our odds that much, I send a cat in hoping for a win, but he dies, at least dealing some collateral damage. Anyway, we kill the last three horse archers there his catapult and take the city. I ended up not attacking with the Combat 4 maceman because I wanted him to be in the city unwounded in case of counter attacks.
1274 AD Our main stack pulls into our newest city to heal up.
1280 AD One of our Jumbos arrives at Cuzco, but would be attacking the Aztec jumbo across a river, so I throw a longbow at it, which loses, but our crossbow finishes off the wounded Jumbo. Cuzco is saved!
We also have Liberalism due in 2 turns. We might want to make some trades now and figure out what tech to take. But that's for Qwack to decide.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/56599/HC_s_worst_nightmare_AD-1280.Civ4SavedGame
pindicator
Emperor
How possible is switching off of Liberalism and setting up a Chemistry slingshot? We need to closely monitor the AIs tech progression (this is Immortal, or so I remember), and be ready to finish up Liberalism at any threat of losing it, but if we can get a jump up to Grenadiers, I think we should jump at it.
Good job at taking it to Monty. This game is really teaching me something about attacking with inferior forces: not only does it seem necessary for Immortal games, but not nearly as difficult as I thought it would be, especially with combined forces. Or are we just getting lucky rolls?
I'm looking at Louis' culture south of Bescanon: did he build a new city there? If not, we could put in a coastal town 1W of the stone to pick up the crabs.
Good job at taking it to Monty. This game is really teaching me something about attacking with inferior forces: not only does it seem necessary for Immortal games, but not nearly as difficult as I thought it would be, especially with combined forces. Or are we just getting lucky rolls?
I'm looking at Louis' culture south of Bescanon: did he build a new city there? If not, we could put in a coastal town 1W of the stone to pick up the crabs.
mike p
King
- Joined
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- 705
I'm not sure what to do with Liberalism either. Will we have enough time to pick up guilds and gunpowder? I'm afraid of losing the free tech if we get too fancy, but if you guys think it can be done, don't pass it up.
My rolls were pretty neutral that turnset, I only lost three units, and only one of them was a favorite. Our forces aren't inferior to Monty's. I just caught him with no units with defensive bonuses so I could skip a turn or two of bombardment.
And the culture on the crabs is coming from the city Louis took from Monty. I wouldn't try getting into a cultural pissing contest with him there. He starts out with the advantage and we don't want to piss him off.
My rolls were pretty neutral that turnset, I only lost three units, and only one of them was a favorite. Our forces aren't inferior to Monty's. I just caught him with no units with defensive bonuses so I could skip a turn or two of bombardment.
And the culture on the crabs is coming from the city Louis took from Monty. I wouldn't try getting into a cultural pissing contest with him there. He starts out with the advantage and we don't want to piss him off.
Nice progress there guys. I am definitely for delaying lib to grab chemistry or mil tradition. Chemistry would give us the advantage for a longer time, mil tradition would give us faster army and a long enough advantage against aztec and spain who are backward. I think I prefer the first, in case Kublai decides he doesn't like us or we want to hurt Vicky a bit (the bit** is running away with techs)
We have 107 GNP and the the leader has 109, you must be kidding me ? We could well be number one in GNP, on immortal while in war
Only 2 AIs know paper and they lack education. Don't research engineering as it would be tradable sooner or later. It's either gunpowder or nationalism IMO
There is no way we can loose it. Put another turn into lib then switch. By checking AI, we can see when they discover education and take a safe margin. By default, we can take printing press or nationalism
Some random thoughts :
- Novgorod is being pressed by spain. Should get a theatre there or just go raze Toledo if you want
- Someone already mentioned courthouses and forbidden palace. I totally agree. We only have 3 courthouses and no city is building one right now
- Some whipping can be done. We have more happiness than we can use
- Teno is not that hot for a capital. Texcoco and Talteloco are far better, don't know how the spot was selected by the AI. Maybe we should just raze it. It is putting too much pressure or Teno to let it be anyway
We have 107 GNP and the the leader has 109, you must be kidding me ? We could well be number one in GNP, on immortal while in war
Only 2 AIs know paper and they lack education. Don't research engineering as it would be tradable sooner or later. It's either gunpowder or nationalism IMOThere is no way we can loose it. Put another turn into lib then switch. By checking AI, we can see when they discover education and take a safe margin. By default, we can take printing press or nationalism
Some random thoughts :
- Novgorod is being pressed by spain. Should get a theatre there or just go raze Toledo if you want
- Someone already mentioned courthouses and forbidden palace. I totally agree. We only have 3 courthouses and no city is building one right now
- Some whipping can be done. We have more happiness than we can use
- Teno is not that hot for a capital. Texcoco and Talteloco are far better, don't know how the spot was selected by the AI. Maybe we should just raze it. It is putting too much pressure or Teno to let it be anyway
Mmm, nice work Mike. It's a shame Louis pillaged the crap out of those Aztec cities.
In reply to Blid's comments, I would go for gunpowder next. I wouldn't go for MT with the liberalism tech, because we have no horses
. Monty's horses are quite a way away, and before we get them we will have to take all 4 of Monty's eastern cities before Louis does. I would prefer to get chemistry. Just remember that chemistry requires engineering before finishing liberalism. We might even be able to take steel.
Teno is not that bad - I would not raze it. It has 2 oasises (sp?) and some 2-0-3 lake tiles. Also it's size 14 and prob has some nice buildings.
Roster:
sooooo
mike p - Just Played
Qwack - UP
pindicator - On Deck
blid
In reply to Blid's comments, I would go for gunpowder next. I wouldn't go for MT with the liberalism tech, because we have no horses
. Monty's horses are quite a way away, and before we get them we will have to take all 4 of Monty's eastern cities before Louis does. I would prefer to get chemistry. Just remember that chemistry requires engineering before finishing liberalism. We might even be able to take steel.Teno is not that bad - I would not raze it. It has 2 oasises (sp?) and some 2-0-3 lake tiles. Also it's size 14 and prob has some nice buildings.
Roster:
sooooo
mike p - Just Played
Qwack - UP
pindicator - On Deck
blid
Qwack
The Poopman
- Joined
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Ok.. I need a skip. Im getting some weird error and Civ isnt opening. I had this before but last time I just reinstalled civ and the game started working again, I reinstalled this time it didnt work. If anyone knows how to fix this, Please post the solution... I also reinstalled DirectX and civ started working for about 30 minutes and then crashed, when I tried to open it again, same error...
Initialize Render failed. Check DirectX Installation, Latest Graphics Drivers and Graphics Settings Parameters:
Initialize Render failed. Check DirectX Installation, Latest Graphics Drivers and Graphics Settings Parameters:
pindicator
Emperor
got it!
And because I'm still riding high on this, I have to throw in a "Go Beavers! OSU 33 - USC 31!!!"
And because I'm still riding high on this, I have to throw in a "Go Beavers! OSU 33 - USC 31!!!"
pindicator
Emperor
apologies for the delay: I had a friend call me that I hadn't seen in a while and we got some BBQ and hung out late. I won't be able to play this for approx 48 hrs, so I can swap with the next person and play later in the week.
. Let's get this game rolling again.Kublai canceled open borders with us by the beginning of the turnset. I was afraid he would declare but he had nothing on his hands
I tried to get those 6 courthouses done so I start one in Tiwanaku after the forge. We need to build the fobidden palace. Novogorod costs -12 maintenance, even with a courthouse already built :shrug:
Novgorod started a library, more for the culture than the extra beakers but I figured it was better than a theatre. There are 4 maces, 3 longbows and 1 elphant in Novgorod !!! Why aren't the maces down there on the aztec front ? I took 2 maces and a longbow down.
I start an irrigation chain for Texcoco.
I also whip a forge in Salamanca. The city should grow back in 1 turn to hire a scientist again, as for the tundra tile, ehmmm can live without it
The next city to start a courthouse is Salamanca, though it may take a long time here. Our troops start advancing on Tenochtitlan.
I notice that Louis is nearly done with philo so I sell it to him for some money.
Our fishing village Macchu picchu whips a theatre. Louis new city is already at 20% culture. See, our friends Hatty and Louis are both creative. Having them as close neighbours is annoying
The poor Monty got declared on by Kublai. He was probably bribed by Louis. Weren't you better fighting off Elizabeth than going after the weak ? I mean our war is righteous, Monty declared on us twice !!
The same turn, Izzy comes and asks us to stop trading with Hatty. Yes the same Izzy who won't trade with us and have declared war on us wants us to stop trading with our best buddy Hatty who's been giving us money for free all along. Why do you waste my time, you fanatic bitc* ?
And what the hell is Monty doing, letting two wounded french horse archers pillage all around ?. He has both elphants and horse archers in his city
Louis offered 1590 gold and engineering for education. I guess that can be fine but if you guys want to take steel with liberalism, we can't make that deal. I think it is too risky though. Researching chemistry would take us a long time. A time where we can be building grenadiers to go after spain or Kublai
It seems Monty heard me. He sent his elephant to kill one of the pillagers and backed him with 2 horse archers. He may have decided finally to do some offensive warring
I kill his three units in the open. I also cancel the iron extortion with Elizabeth. Forgot about that, I should have done it 3 turns earlier. I ask Hatty for 160 gold and she gives. She is really a cutie
The cats near Teno Bomb it to 0 defense. The next turn, the units in Teno are wounded. Seems like some AI weakened Monty here. Probably Louis. I take advantage and capture Teno for a loss of 1 catapult at 60% odds
The units that took Teno are barely wounded. They continue their journey north. I whip the courthouse in Tiwanaku, still one courthouse to go (I whipped one in Teno when she it was starving after getting out of revolt). The courthouse in Salamanca is not whippable yet. Now that some farms were built, I fire the forced specialist there for some growth and a future whip. I also whip national epic for 2 pops in Tlateloco.
With national epic done, I force a scientist and an enginner. There is still enough food to grow quickly. Next player should change that if you think it's not ok. The city starts a market for future merchants specialists. A hindu monastery would be nice too. We need to spread our state religion
On my last turn, Tiwanaku lost the ivory tile before Cuzco could finish a war elphant. I switch Tiwanaku from a market to univeristy for the culture.
I am too late at Cali when I was hoping to take the city with 2 cats and a mace. Louis takes it with horse archers.
The most important is that now, Teo can work the flood plains/incense. It already has a theatre but it would be nice to have hinduism spread too
Elizabeth has a stack of 4 units crossing our country. Maybe she is just exploring but it would be nice if she delcares on Louis.
The last couple of aztec cities :
This one we can capture/raze next turn. I would say capture since it has silver and corn and is coastal. The downside is that we would have mongolian culture pressing us
The other city should probably be razed. We have an army getting there too.
We can also make peace with Monty and let the AI kill him but we would only get horseback riding in the process. Hardly something we really need now
Gunwpoder in 1 turn so we can have chemistry in 2-3 turns with liberlalism only 1-2 turns from completion. Taking chemistry if we are going for peaceful victory may not make sense. If we decide to go conqering, then chemistry makes sense. Personally, I am for taking the war to spain.
EDIT : 1340 AD save
I tried to get those 6 courthouses done so I start one in Tiwanaku after the forge. We need to build the fobidden palace. Novogorod costs -12 maintenance, even with a courthouse already built :shrug:
Novgorod started a library, more for the culture than the extra beakers but I figured it was better than a theatre. There are 4 maces, 3 longbows and 1 elphant in Novgorod !!! Why aren't the maces down there on the aztec front ? I took 2 maces and a longbow down.
I start an irrigation chain for Texcoco.
I also whip a forge in Salamanca. The city should grow back in 1 turn to hire a scientist again, as for the tundra tile, ehmmm can live without it
The next city to start a courthouse is Salamanca, though it may take a long time here. Our troops start advancing on Tenochtitlan.
I notice that Louis is nearly done with philo so I sell it to him for some money.
Our fishing village Macchu picchu whips a theatre. Louis new city is already at 20% culture. See, our friends Hatty and Louis are both creative. Having them as close neighbours is annoying
The poor Monty got declared on by Kublai. He was probably bribed by Louis. Weren't you better fighting off Elizabeth than going after the weak ? I mean our war is righteous, Monty declared on us twice !!
The same turn, Izzy comes and asks us to stop trading with Hatty. Yes the same Izzy who won't trade with us and have declared war on us wants us to stop trading with our best buddy Hatty who's been giving us money for free all along. Why do you waste my time, you fanatic bitc* ?
And what the hell is Monty doing, letting two wounded french horse archers pillage all around ?. He has both elphants and horse archers in his city
Louis offered 1590 gold and engineering for education. I guess that can be fine but if you guys want to take steel with liberalism, we can't make that deal. I think it is too risky though. Researching chemistry would take us a long time. A time where we can be building grenadiers to go after spain or Kublai
It seems Monty heard me. He sent his elephant to kill one of the pillagers and backed him with 2 horse archers. He may have decided finally to do some offensive warring
I kill his three units in the open. I also cancel the iron extortion with Elizabeth. Forgot about that, I should have done it 3 turns earlier. I ask Hatty for 160 gold and she gives. She is really a cutie
The cats near Teno Bomb it to 0 defense. The next turn, the units in Teno are wounded. Seems like some AI weakened Monty here. Probably Louis. I take advantage and capture Teno for a loss of 1 catapult at 60% odds
The units that took Teno are barely wounded. They continue their journey north. I whip the courthouse in Tiwanaku, still one courthouse to go (I whipped one in Teno when she it was starving after getting out of revolt). The courthouse in Salamanca is not whippable yet. Now that some farms were built, I fire the forced specialist there for some growth and a future whip. I also whip national epic for 2 pops in Tlateloco.
With national epic done, I force a scientist and an enginner. There is still enough food to grow quickly. Next player should change that if you think it's not ok. The city starts a market for future merchants specialists. A hindu monastery would be nice too. We need to spread our state religion
On my last turn, Tiwanaku lost the ivory tile before Cuzco could finish a war elphant. I switch Tiwanaku from a market to univeristy for the culture.
I am too late at Cali when I was hoping to take the city with 2 cats and a mace. Louis takes it with horse archers.
The most important is that now, Teo can work the flood plains/incense. It already has a theatre but it would be nice to have hinduism spread too
Elizabeth has a stack of 4 units crossing our country. Maybe she is just exploring but it would be nice if she delcares on Louis.
The last couple of aztec cities :
This one we can capture/raze next turn. I would say capture since it has silver and corn and is coastal. The downside is that we would have mongolian culture pressing us
The other city should probably be razed. We have an army getting there too.
We can also make peace with Monty and let the AI kill him but we would only get horseback riding in the process. Hardly something we really need now
Gunwpoder in 1 turn so we can have chemistry in 2-3 turns with liberlalism only 1-2 turns from completion. Taking chemistry if we are going for peaceful victory may not make sense. If we decide to go conqering, then chemistry makes sense. Personally, I am for taking the war to spain.
EDIT : 1340 AD save
There are still 7 units in Novgorod and I sent one new built mace to Salamanca. I didn't left the north, euh south with 1 axe
I forgot to mention it but taking chemistry means we need to trade education for engineering from Louis. He would offer his money (1780 gold !!) in the deal. If you don't want to grab something else with liberalism, I'd suggest making the deal on turn 0. Don't take the useless techs Louis would offer instead
I forgot to mention it but taking chemistry means we need to trade education for engineering from Louis. He would offer his money (1780 gold !!) in the deal. If you don't want to grab something else with liberalism, I'd suggest making the deal on turn 0. Don't take the useless techs Louis would offer instead
pindicator
Emperor
I'm going to apologize because I'm giving a quick report. I usually like to make reports that have a lot more detail than this.
The As*techs are no more. I took the town in the east and razed the town in the south.
We sold Edumacation for Engineering and Cash Prizes, then slingshot our way to Chemistry. I've upgraded only a few maces, but we really can stand to upgrade a lot more. Why? Because I picked up some more cash for you guys to play with.
Khan was the only one without Pacifism. Score 500g + Theology. Cool, that means Theocracy! And that means after the revolt I realized we have a whole whopping ONE hindu town. I'm starting us on our first Hindu missionary, cause we need to get Hinduism at least into our military production towns.
I also sold Izzy Paper for 450g. We have about 2000 gold to play with right now. Research is on Steel, due in 16 at deficit research.
We can build the Forgotten Palace. I think I started it in St. Petersburg, but it's only got one turn invested if we want to swap.
I say we build/upgrade a lot of grenadiers, build some more cats, and go take on the next AI. This isn't a peaceful game: this is HC's nightmare. Ain't much scary about a spaceship. Maybe diplomacy; those politicians frighten me.
The As*techs are no more. I took the town in the east and razed the town in the south.
We sold Edumacation for Engineering and Cash Prizes, then slingshot our way to Chemistry. I've upgraded only a few maces, but we really can stand to upgrade a lot more. Why? Because I picked up some more cash for you guys to play with.
Khan was the only one without Pacifism. Score 500g + Theology. Cool, that means Theocracy! And that means after the revolt I realized we have a whole whopping ONE hindu town. I'm starting us on our first Hindu missionary, cause we need to get Hinduism at least into our military production towns.
I also sold Izzy Paper for 450g. We have about 2000 gold to play with right now. Research is on Steel, due in 16 at deficit research.
We can build the Forgotten Palace. I think I started it in St. Petersburg, but it's only got one turn invested if we want to swap.
I say we build/upgrade a lot of grenadiers, build some more cats, and go take on the next AI. This isn't a peaceful game: this is HC's nightmare. Ain't much scary about a spaceship. Maybe diplomacy; those politicians frighten me.
I'm not sure on a victory condition either. Diplomacy won't be possible if Hatty is our opponent. I guess we take the war to spain in punishment for her sneak attack early in the game. Our research rate doesn't seem amazing, but then again neither does the AIs'. Probably because there's not much cottagable land out there.
sooooo - UP
mike p - On Deck
Qwack
pindicator
blid
I'll play tomorrow before I go out to watch the fireworks.
sooooo - UP
mike p - On Deck
Qwack
pindicator
blid
I'll play tomorrow before I go out to watch the fireworks.
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