Scarcity of resources in BTS

[madscientist]

I thought this would be a good thread to start. Has anyone else nopted that there are fewer resources available? I play on Huge maps and her eis what I have noticed.

1) Copper is not as abundent as warlords. Horses more so. Iron the same.

2) Later rerources like Oil, Coal, aluminum, Uranium can sometimes be missing from an entire continent. My last game I had 35% of the land mass with only 2 oil reserves and NO aluminum (coal was OK).
3) Certain resources appear to be more bunched together. I know this happened in warlords but seams more prevalent in BTS.

I sort of like this as it adds more strategy to getting early land, and later decision making for war.

Or is this a huge map thing where the are a fixed number of resources in a map regardless of size.

Comments????

 

[MrCynical]

1)I haven't really noticed much difference in the abundances of these resources. If anything it'd be horses I'd pick as being the more scarce. I've only had them in 1 of my last 4 games (at least at a relevant date).

2)Not sure about this one either. I have seen very large civs lacking oil, but that did happen occasionally before.

3)This I am seeing. Particularly the cereals now seem to clump together more. I've seen sites with 2 or 3 lots of corn, sometimes on adjacent tiles which definitely didn't happen pre-BtS.

 

[Bast]

1. Horses are very rare. This is bad news for civs like Egypt and Persia.

2. I've luckily had the ones I needed. Thinking if they want the Standard Ethanol and Aluminium Inc to take off they might need to look at this.

3. More or less the same I think.

 

[slobberinbear]

I agree that there's less copper and more clumping of non-strategic resources in BTS. It's not uncommon to see two (or more!) gold tiles within the same BFC area.

More clumping tends to create both more sweet spots and dead areas of the map. I would think this problem would be somewhat reduced on Huge maps, since there's just so much space ... you just have to find it. On smaller maps, there's a real good chance the resource you need just isn't there.

I have to wonder whether this was intentional, especially in the case of copper. It makes Iron Working much more of a priority.

 

[illram]

I have definitely noticed a lack of copper and iron. In warlords you were pretty much guaranteed either iron or copper near your start, now this is not true. I haven't noticed a lack of horses, I always thought they were hit and miss anyways and never really relied on them.

Not so sure about the others, but I have noticed that the new map scripts make for interesting games where each continent does indeed have its own unique set of resources, which makes for some interesting diplomatic issues and trades.

 

[uncarved block]

On the Big And Small maps (standard; my comp can't handle anything bigger) I've played, I've noticed the increased scarcity of Bronze, especially when you have a neighbor (like Pacal!) just begging to be ax rushed early on. Lately though I've drifted back to some Inland Sea maps (old habits die hard), and resource distribution seems about the same. (The number of Cows you can get on a Great Plains map now is simply obscene, though, if you start in the center.)

I'll take your question and throw one out for the crowd: does if feel like your neighbors, and how far away they are, depend on who you pick to play? Every time I pick a leader with an early UU, or simply Aggressive, it seems like the nearest capitol is 20-25 tiles away; if I pick someone like Lizzy, though, Wang Kon, the nearest capitol is 10-15 tiles away, and sometimes even closer (I've knocked a couple AIs out before turn 9 this way several times.) It got so bad on Inland Sea maps that I finally started playing Great Plains when I wanted to see how effective one of the new BtS early UUs (like the Dog Soldier) was as an early rusher.

Paranoia, or something you've all noticed as well?

 

[IDave]

I've definitely noticed a lack of horses and copper.

On the game i am currently playing i am on a large continent with 3 other civs and there is 1 copper resource and i have no horses even tho i have 8 cities.

Last game i played my whole continent had no coal OR aluminium and very little copper too.

But i suppose this kinda thing happens in real life.

Having no horses really sucks tho (unless u r france)

 

[Gnarfflinger]

I've been playing 18 civs on a Standard size map. I have yet to go 0 for 3 on the early strategic resources. I usually get two of three, but usually it's horses that's the scarce one. I've often had to fight 2 to 4 wars to get horses...

 

[Naismith]

When I first started my first BTS game (large pangaea, prince), I really wanted a good starting location. I got a very low food capital, regenerated, same thing, regenerated, same thing. I was surprised, and regenerated many times, and peeked at the map in WorldBuilder.

Not exactly scientific, but I definitely feel there's less copper, about the same amount of iron, and somewhat less of horses. Defininitely more clumping of grain resources, and maybe seafood as well. I think there's more forests, and you're less likely to land a medium or high food capital.

 

[lilnev]

I haven't noticed a difference in the strategic resources. The main thing I've noticed is some very low-food capitals -- one plains Cow, for example. But I've also been playing mostly the Tectonics custom map script, so that might be the culprit instead of BtS.

peace,
lilnev

 

[GenocideBringer]

I've noticed it too. In my latest game, I only had oil because I conquered Boudica. I frequently go without some resources.

However, these are all issues that can be dealt with. You only need one of two resources to get swords/axes, horses AND ivory can give you mounted units, aluminum and oil can be gained via corporation...

I think they did it this way to encourage resource trading.

 

[madscientist]

I've noticed it too. In my latest game, I only had oil because I conquered Boudica. I frequently go without some resources.

However, these are all issues that can be dealt with. You only need one of two resources to get swords/axes, horses AND ivory can give you mounted units, aluminum and oil can be gained via corporation...

I think they did it this way to encourage resource trading.

I think this is what I was getting at. Fewer of the late resources to force more trading and use of corps. I control about 12% of the land in my current game and have 1 oil, i coal, no aluminum, no horse. I started with 1 copper and 2 iron but have popped several from mines (does anyone notice iron pops for frequently?)

On the trade side I was able to trade Ivory to William on another continent for horse and lasted throughout the entire game until I tech industrialization and ivory became onbolete. In warloards the AI would have cut the trade as soon asI got Knights, then cut it again to demand more once I teched military tradition for Cossacks.

This is my fourth huge map game that i have noticed fewer late resources.

 

[fearuin]

does anyone notice iron pops for frequently?

It seems to happen more often now. On my last 4 games, in 3 bronze or iron popped from previously mined hills. This seems to be the key: mine, mine, mine! Probably, if one counts the resources popped during the game, and adds it to the openly seen, the quantity of bronze and iron may be closer (slightly less, maybe) to the Warlords version. Horses are definitevely less.

I think this may happen, as you say, to encourage trade, but also to make the ax/sword/horse rush more difficult, thus making the archer from an irrelevant unit to a handy one if you're lucky to have it before your enemy, and before they get iron, bronze, or horses. We may start to see some archer rushes in BtS games. I still have to try the efectiveness of this, but sometimes it will be the only chance you'll have.

 

[futurehermit]

I haven't noticed a difference in the strategic resources. The main thing I've noticed is some very low-food capitals -- one plains Cow, for example. But I've also been playing mostly the Tectonics custom map script, so that might be the culprit instead of BtS.

peace,
lilnev

No it is bts. Happens frequently to me. It is a low-food, high-forest capital. Happens in probably 20% of my games.

 

[desemondez]

In my games ( Noble+Prince ), ivory seems to be a scarce commodity for me.... When they do appear, it'll be clumped together. Same goes for dyes and incense as well.

Does anyone know if the difficulty level affects resource distribution?

 

[popejubal]

Along these lines, anybody know if there is a .xml edit to change the overall frequency of resources or of individual resources?

I'm thinking about how a game would be different with lots and lots (and lots and lots) of resources on the map for everyone. It shouldn't be any easier or more difficult since everyone gets the same boosts, but it means greater challenges with some aspects of the game (happiness, health) and fewer challenges with others (finding enough production).

 

[Plinko16]

I noticed that there is a pretty radical difference in how resources are distributed in BTS, and it's not just copper/iron/horses.

I have played 6 games to completion and have yet to start with any strategic resources within the starting BFC, and only once did I have iron within several cities of my starting point and I have had games where there were only 2-3 copper resources on the entire map.

On the other hand, I am seeing bunches of the same resources in adjacent tiles, in my last game my capital had 2 gems, 2 spices and 2 dye all within the BFC, all of which were directly adjacent to each other. The dyes and spices each had a third instance just outside my BFC on top of it. In every game, I have had a ton of cows, but seen very few sheep or pigs.

I suspect this is coded intentionally to make people have to consider trading more (since you'll probably have an abundance of a few resources and no access to others) and to make people have to consider the possibility of non-war strategies (when you have no early shot at a resource).

 

[Gocho]

I've seen some crazy clumping of resources in BTS, in my last game I founded a city in the jungle with 4 sources of gems to the east and 5 sources of ivory to the west. I probably should have broken it up into 2-3 cities but it was just to tempting to pass on.

 

[PericlesOfAthen]

I started a similar thread several weeks ago because I was concerned after my first three BTS starts had no copper and/or horses nearby. I think it is a deliberate change to reduce the power of early-rush. Not a bad thing, I think. It makes early war-mongering more challenging. After those first three games though I have had pretty regular copper and horses but I do think these resources are less common than in Warlords or Vanilla. Also as someone mentioned, I've noticed more copper or iron appearing from mines. In many games, I've gotten gold, silver or gems as well.

 

[fearuin]

Also as someone mentioned, I've noticed more copper or iron appearing from mines. In many games, I've gotten gold, silver or gems as well.

That was me. And yes, I've also noticed the appearing of "luxury minerals".

Well... after all the title of the expansion pack is "Beyond the sword". Maybe it should have a subtitile saying "(and into the mines)".