SCENARIO: Age of Imperialism; 1895-1924, Deluxe Version

[ChaosArbiter]

not sure if i noted before but i've added in a small wonder called "Counter-Insurgency Campaign", available at Col Admin 3. the two benefits: doubles combat strength against barbs and increases chance of a great leader.

Yay, almost done!

Question related to that bolded above: If you have absolutely every "Increases Chance of Great Leader" wonder available, what are the odds that you'll spawn a GL from a given combat? I'm just curious if you know, because there are quite a few of them.

 

[El Justo]

i forget the exact statistical layering but it is cumulative.

 

[Bogatyr]

Looking forward to the updates.

A few quick points that I was thinking about:

1. What about granting industry for Rio and Buenos Aires? (I'm basically thinking along the lines of the Mexican model here.) I'm not sure what this would do to the game, but it seems reasonable. These are major cities and I don't think they were noticeably less industrialized than, say, parts of Eastern Europe, Mexico City, and Turkey at the time. But there could be a good in-game reason that you don't want any industry in South America?

2. Some way to squeeze in Bulgaria? I don't mean as a separate civ, since there's no room left in the scenario. However, they were rather active in the early 20th century, having participated in the First and Second Balkan Wars. They were also the fourth Central Power in WW1. I'm not sure how they could be inserted though. Making them barbarians doesn't seem right, and as a civilization it would be impossible. Maybe it's best to just leave them out.

3. Maybe add the "agricultural" trait to the Lowlands Countries? They are one of the most agriculturally productive regions in the world and have been one of the most agriculturally innovative for centuries too (huge impact on floriculture, reclaiming farmland from the sea in the polders, etc.). Despite their tiny size, the Netherlands ranks third in the world in terms of agricultural exports (behind USA and France). For example, they export 2/3s of the world's flowers and bulbs.

4. I'm not sure about Tibet being militaristic and expansionist at this point in time. Maybe militaristic and religious? (Not really particularly militaristic in this period actually, but they need the boost in troops that militaristic gives them just to stay alive!)

 

[El Justo]

can't do the Industry resource in the same spots as the Colonialism. so unfortunately, no way to have it in S America.

don't want to re-open the balcan stuff. so out they stay. too bad, i know.

true about the netherlands. will look at it.

would have to look at tibet too. can't recall the rationale behind assigning the traits, to be honest.

 

[eazyhasaids]

would it be possible to add a manufacturing plant and university to the south american nations in a similar fashion to the canuck/aussies? or maybe make a separate gov for the ABC countries that allows these buildings. The same could be done with china for at least a uni.

Are you going to put some barbs in Tonkin? i think the insurgency was still active until 1898. Are these new factions going to be immobile or free to move around?

 

[El Justo]

never really gave any thought to an inustrialized set of buildings for s america. are they hurting that bad?

would have to look at north vietnam area. at first glance, no. but will look again

immobile for all of them. i don't want them wandering and would rather have them be the hunted, so to speak.

 

[Bogatyr]

I agree regarding immobile insurgents. Putting them on top of some strategic resource or particularly juicy tile could increase the incentive to take them out. For example, if the only way to build that handy rail link you want in your colony is to eliminate those pesky rebels sitting on top of the local iron/coal supply. (Or cotton/tea/coffee/etc to access the associated "international trade" wonder.)

 

[eazyhasaids]

I wouldn't say S. america as a whole needs some industrial buildings but the ABC's and maybe uruguay could use them seeing as there was quite a lot of foreign investment in this period because of the vast resources and agricultural products. Maybe this could be done with a separate oligarchic republic government to allow them to build these.

Maybe this can be done for the Boers too. Its kind of what-iffy but if they held the brits off it wouldn't be too much a stretch to imagine them industrializing more.

 

[El Justo]

building slots are at a premium. i had to really pare them down to get the ones in there for this new revision (a handful, 7-10 maybe). they were all spam wonders that i removed from the lesser areas and there aren't many of these lesser spam wonders left to pare. an alternative could be to simply add more mines to the tiles around certain cities or to make units a tad cheaper (would rather not alter shield prices if i can help it). resource placement can be maximized as well if it's a boost in shields that's needed.

 

[El Justo]

i added some more mines to the historically productive areas of south america.

 

[Bogatyr]

Really looking forward to the new update. Who should I play first? It sounds like Russia will be the most changed. I kind of want to try out someone with insurgents in their territory too though. Decisions, decisions...

 

[El Justo]

britain will have the most, i think. don't forget about netherlands and belgium getting split up, too. i'll probably use one of them for my first beta test.

 

[Sasebo]

El Justo, if I want to be able to keep playing the old version when you finish the update, am I going to have to copy & rename the current scenario file to do it? Is this new update not going to be compatible with the previous version?

When I first heard of this idea of splitting the Lowlands into Belgium & the Netherlands I didn't like it at first, the Lowlands are weak enough as it is. On further reflection though, they are certainly more viable then the Cuban or Phillipine Rebels or the various 2 city civs, so why not? The only thing I really don't like about them is their wretched naval options. If the Austrians can build useful BBs, why couldn't they?

 

[ChaosArbiter]

The Lowlands are weak in Europe, but they've actually got a fairly significant African presence (and some number of Asian holdings, don't remember how many). Take out the Germans, Portuguese and Spanish, and you could probably successfully challenge France and Britain.

Regarding Dutch BBs:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_1913_battleship_proposal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HNLMS_De_Zeven_Provinciën_(1909)
http://navalhistory.flixco.info/H/284373x53056/8330/a0.htm
http://navalhistory.flixco.info/H/284330x53056/8330/a0.htm

Uh, yeah. Fear the Dutch navy. For the record, that third link (HNMLMS Jacob van Heemskerck) is a ship type laid down in 1902, yet (from what little I understand of gun terminology) it seems to be almost strictly inferior to the German Brandenburg-class BB, which was laid down in 1890, and complete by '93.

 

[El Justo]

Sasebo, they will not be compatible. but i'm a ways off. so don't worry in the meantime. re the dutch navy - they can build the generics. of course, their navy was not historically fearsome. so this is why they didn't get any true, ocean-going BBs.

 

[Sasebo]

Well, you are right about the AI being indifferent hunter-killer types, I guess it is possible to do without them. I recall my Boer game where I had puny little ships sinking things left and right with near impunity. It's just after playing with the big civs BBs you feel naked without them. I'm sure the paranoia that comes with only having one or two European cities and inferior troops to boot is a factor as well. I'm such a coward.

I'm not trying to rush you El Justo, but what exactly does "I'm a ways off" mean? I wanted to call dibs on trying China, but if you are not going to be finished for a while I might start one now. The Germany game is going well, the colonies are secure, I just have to worry about a European war since Russia has never been engaged, and France is still potent. Though their war with England has bled them a little. They also lost the city just south of gibralter, but I've cut up Britain's navy pretty harshly, and between the USA, France and me they lost half a dozen cities already.

 

[ChaosArbiter]

The Germany game is going well, the colonies are secure, I just have to worry about a European war since Russia has never been engaged, and France is still potent. Though their war with England has bled them a little. They also lost the city just south of gibralter, but I've cut up Britain's navy pretty harshly, and between the USA, France and me they lost half a dozen cities already.

Figure out which one goes first (France or Russia), then attack whoever goes second and get the other in an alliance + RoP (Not strictly necessary, they'll probably be able to go through A-H and Italy). That said, Russia's not terribly threatening until after the Great War. 11 Attack Cossacks are decent (but only 3 HP IIRC), but their Infantry and artillery leave a lot to be desired. Spend a year building up and you should be good. If you're really worried, get them to attack the Ottomans along with you, that should bleed them out fairly well (or at least let you scope their army).

 

[Bogatyr]

The Lowland countries are not too bad. I've won with them on highest difficulty. The trick is to take Scandinavia FAST. Usually I build a transport in Amsterdam first turn and rush build a Belgian infantry in Brussels. Then send the whole navy north to bombard Scandinavian coastal cities. Meanwhile both colonial cavalry are getting shipped to Europe immediately from South America. With careful play and a bit of luck I have been able to take all of Scandinavia (except Copenhagen) very quickly. This really increases your industrial base. Oslo in particular is a good city once it's all mined out. Leave Copenhagen because the Germans tend to get into war with what's left of Scandinavia, and when you go after them their beefy navy will bombard the nearest target (Copenhagen) instead of your cities!

In the east, Holland has the best colonial base in the Pacific islands. Batavia is a great colonial city and so is the most southern one on Sumatra (forget the name). A good human player should have no trouble expanding there. In Africa, I always start out defensively. Once you get Ind. II then you should recruit as many allies in Africa as you can if you want expand - i.e. if you are planning to hit England then pay Italy, Turkey, Abyssinia, Boers, Germany, etc. to all attack them at the same time!

All in all, they are a solid mid-level country. I have managed to stay ahead of the curve with them scientifically too. Use that window when you have Great War and nobody else does! You'll have a temporary troop advantage, so upgrade all your infantry and hit Europe hard! Also, the Roofdier is your friend. You can use its good bombard to cripple enemy fleets of much better ships, weaken coastal cities for your armies to take, etc. It's nice that you can build them very fast in Java and Sumatra too.

Definitely not the hardest country to win with by an means. It helps that they are industrious, scientific, and commercial too. All good traits. The economy is nice too (thanks to Indonesia!).

p.s. And, yes, the Dutch had a very good navy historically. In fact, it was a strong contender for best in the world. But that was in the 1600s. ;-)

 

[Bogatyr]

Sorry for the double post. Forgot to ask.

So, if the Dutch and Belgians are getting split then who is getting cut to make room for the new civ? Does this mean that the Philippines and Cuba are going to be insurgents rather than one-city-civs now?

Also, the Belgians might need a better defensive unit than their current 8/6 infantry if they can't make use of the Dutch 6/8 infantry... Otherwise they will be nothing more than sacrificial lambs in Europe. Trying to play a civ with one city in Europe is pretty rough as is, but with an infantry defense of 6 it's going to be a lost cause...

 

[El Justo]

of course it would be a lost cause so yeah, their no's for the infantry have been changed. same for the dutch. can't recall what they are now. but i would imagine they're both in the 8/8 neighborhood.

philippines and cuba are indeed insurgents now. this freed up two spots. one went to the split lowlands civ (belgium, netherlands retained the old lowlands slot) and romania got the other one.

@Sasebo
i meant that i don't anticipate uploading any files for a few weeks. i've finally reached a point though where i can test consistently. not a fan of target days per se but i would venture to say 4-6 weeks at the earliest, probably more.