SCENARIO: Age of Imperialism; 1895-1924, Deluxe Version

[Sasebo]

I would like to point out a minor boo-boo withe BIQ, I am pretty sure I have the most current one... Anyway, Leopoldville, the Lowland Countries port for the Congo does not have a Colonial Govt. Building, it should have one, right?

This is one of those scenarios that makes me feel better about sometimes being a warmonger. The AI just build enormous amounts of troops in this scenario. If I play my usual game I get blown apart. I once was playing Italy, was doing splendiferously, until the French ran into one of my submarines off of Africa. I had them under some visible units, but I decided I didn't want to pay them for a right of passage treaty, and allowed them to move my units automatically. The subs went to one square and the other ships went to another one, and BOOM! Next thing I know there were around 100 French ground troops in northern Italy. I think I had around 15 and some artillery myself. How rude.

 

[CELTICEMPIRE]

the AI rarely uses artillery, giving the human an advantage.

 

[Nimitz96]

i think its sad that the AI Is Hell Bent for the 1000 unit mark...its wierd....and annoying..

 

[Sasebo]

Well, really big map scenarios seem to trend in that direction. The WW @ Global and Teturkhan scenarios had big maps, and the AIs there also went unit crazy.

Celticempire, I know that, but having a good navy and a nice amount of artillery are not going to save you when they have THAT big a horde! It's like throwing peanuts at an elephant.

For those of you who have played this scenario before: What sort of balance do you use between building military and building economic stuff, like improvements?

 

[Nimitz96]

@sasebo Building Scientific Wonders so that you can grab techs before other countries, as well as factories, and naval bases on the mainland, with Cultural/defense based one on the frontier has proved to be nice for me so that production is accelerated, and im still a leader with lots of culture/units

 

[ChaosArbiter]

For those of you who have played this scenario before: What sort of balance do you use between building military and building economic stuff, like improvements?

I play as AH and Germany mostly, so with that in mind ... I tend to build (rushing as cash becomes available) Rails and Factories, with the Rail Corp and Gold Standard as my first two wonders, pretty much when the game begins. After the GS is complete, I rush the Rail/Factory in the Capital, then pump out Infantry to garrison my cities while they build up improvements - usually two per city. This usually means that my capital is the last city to get good improvements, and that I'm not ready for any serious fighting until at least a year after the start, but on Regent/Monarch it seems to set me up to power through the AI. After that, I usually set the cities to generalized military builds, with individual cities changing as improvements become available (like Saw Mills, Wineries, etc). Once I get MGs, the Capital (now Vet-Capable) starts pumping them out for my cities.

 

[r16]

327 pages of thread obviously talk for quality but will ı be able to play in 384MB RAM machine ?

 

[Sasebo]

r16, my compy is 7-8 years old at least, and it runs it fine. The turns are actually pretty fast for this size scenario on my machine.

ChaosArbiter: I am playing Germany right now, as a matter of fact. I figured I don't build enough troops, but their higher quality and the Austrian alliance should help keep me alive. I indulged in a bit of cultural warfare, so I built more cultural improvements, though some of those have production too. I do have Berlin set to build infantry in two turns but my other cities are kind of mediocre with production, though they are getting there.

I was decently defended, then I went a bit ****oo and burned up all my infantry to take Amsterdam. Literally the last unit took it. I expected them to take it back immediately, if not take several cities, since they had 11 or so troops in Brussels...but they did nothing. Very, very dumb. I eventually make peace with them after taking another city in Indonesia. The AI early in the scenario is very dumb and leaves some cities completely undefended. That is why I started a war vs. Spain and I ended up taking 3 of their lesser cities in the Pacific. I have sent out some squadrons(tiny ones, 1 brandenburg and 3 TBs) to my colonial areas, and those have been a big help, though the one headed for the Pacific still hasn't gotten there yet!

I lost the Industrialization wonders, but if I can get the Wright Flyer and the other Great Invention wonders going, I should be fine tech wise. I am about to hit Scandanavia, I think I should have been attacking them earlier. I am trying to hold in my colonies, while building and attacking in Europe. We'll see if I built enough defense when Britain or France DOW me. I held off the Dutch & Spanish, but they are not first rate powers. I really need to build more troops in Europe, I know I have way too few...

 

[Nimitz96]

I only Declared war on the Dutch when france Captured Belguim, then, i Attacked Amsterdam, and almost got whupped-too little units... so i rushed all my artillary and destoryied it with 2 units left at full health..I LOST 20 VET UNITS!!! ARGH!! then i attacked scandinavia, and lost my entire army at chopenhagen...but it was muti pronged...so the rest of the invasion was a relative success... but i think the main part of AoI in attack and defense is artillery, you could have and army of 40 units. and of 30 of them are artillery, you could destroy entire cities in a single turn....really. im Germany now, and am at war with Russia, and ive destroyed armies of 30+ Cossacks just with artillery, and a couple Cav units...its amazing!

 

[Sasebo]

You must be farther along then I am then; the piddly little 10 bombard/1 ROF ones I can build now hardly seem worth it. Maybe when the better artillery comes around it will be different. I'm relying on the navy to be my artillery right now, and this scenario is wonderful for getting the AI to build up a navy to play with.

ChaosArbiter, I forgot to mention it; I don't see building MGs for Germany as being worthwhile. Tor a lot of other nations, like Italy or Scandinavia it makes perfect sense, but I would rather just pump out hte German Infantry, they have way more HP, and can attack well too. Plus they kill units instead of forcing them to retreat.

 

[ChaosArbiter]

MGs free up Infantry to fight your enemies; you *could* use Home Guard units to defend your cities, but if any enemies actually get through, you'll probably lose the city. Remember that they also have a Defensive Bombard ability and ZoC.

And Germany gets awesome artillery. Yes, the first gun is pretty lame, but pretty much everything else (except the Mountain Guns) is made of win.

 

[Nimitz96]

im researching the Great War Tech...so im about halfway through it, the early years are really hard, but its also the best time to attack... MG's are pretty useful. i have a chain of Fortresses with 2 Arty's and a mg in each on my border with Russia, so that any effort to attack could be destoried with (up to 6 cannon) artillery fire, and counter attacked before any damage can be done. i also have rails to them, and leave my cities with only the immobile units, which frees up many inf units for attack. my Defence relies on mobility and rapid reserve movement. destory the enemy before they can do damage...its force Russia to go through A-H To attack me...(now why the just dont attack A-H who attacked them is beyond me...) and for them i have a force of 10 inf and 8 arty scaterred through-out A-H Using their rails to attack them, and running away after damaging/killing some units.

 

[B-29 Bomber]

Hi El Justo, I was wondering about a few things... How do you create the "Raw Materials" in the Editor? Also could you please post the terrain values for food, shields, and commerce? The reason being is that I'm creating a scenario for my own gaming pleasure. It's based off of the TETurkhan: Test of Time Earth Map 362x362 V 2.0. It's about a post-WWIII(2029-2036) world If anyone wants the details for it to make a much more polished version I'll be more than happy to help. I'm still in the Idea-Generating and research stage, so any help I can get in that department would be great! I'm thinking of putting up a thread for this... you know to help generate ideas. Does anyone know where I would I post such a thread?

 

[Bogatyr]

Having played the game with pretty much all of the major powers at some point, I have a few minor questions.

1. Could Brazil start with an extra worker or two? Their territory is big and I think it would represent their massive population base.

2. Is there any way to stop the USA AI always taking over all of Canada and Mexico? Or is this just inevitable giving how the AI "thinks" and the comparative strengths of the three territories? (Ditto for the Chinese always conquering SE Asia and the Brits always dominating Africa.)

3. Would it maybe be fun to make Canada and Australia/NZ separate countries in locked alliance with the United Kingdom? (i.e. like Germany and Austria) I don't really like playing the British Empire at this point because it's a little too easy when you start that HUGE! But playing the Canucks or the Ozzies might be a fun regional challenge. The Canadians and the Anzacs both had very respectable soldiery in WW1 too.

4. I wish there was some way to make Japan more of a threat in the Pacific. They never do anything (except sometimes take Honolulu and Midway, which the US AI never defends for some reason). I thought about this for a while. The only thing I could come up with was making the Japanese Infantry amphibious! I think this could add a really interesting twist in the Pacific theater and might give Japan the punch to be more like the historical threat they posed to mainland Asia and the Pacific islands. The fact is that the AI just doesn't know how to launch a good maritime assault, which cripples Japan's offensive capabilities. Amphibious infantry would make them a constant threat to all coastal cities in the Pacific rim and would really spice things up I think. (This idea is basically intended to help out the Japanese AI mind you, it would overpower them in the hands of a human player.)

5. Small Scandinavian colonial city at Nuuk/Godthab?

 

[B-29 Bomber]

Having played the game with pretty much all of the major powers at some point, I have a few minor questions.

1. Could Brazil start with an extra worker or two? Their territory is big and I think it would represent their massive population base.

2. Is there any way to stop the USA AI always taking over all of Canada and Mexico? Or is this just inevitable giving how the AI "thinks" and the comparative strengths of the three territories? (Ditto for the Chinese always conquering SE Asia and the Brits always dominating Africa.)

3. Would it maybe be fun to make Canada and Australia/NZ separate countries in locked alliance with the United Kingdom? (i.e. like Germany and Austria) I don't really like playing the British Empire at this point because it's a little too easy when you start that HUGE! But playing the Canucks or the Ozzies might be a fun regional challenge. The Canadians and the Anzacs both had very respectable soldiery in WW1 too.

4. I wish there was some way to make Japan more of a threat in the Pacific. They never do anything (except sometimes take Honolulu and Midway, which the US AI never defends for some reason). I thought about this for a while. The only thing I could come up with was making the Japanese Infantry amphibious! I think this could add a really interesting twist in the Pacific theater and might give Japan the punch to be more like the historical threat they posed to mainland Asia and the Pacific islands. The fact is that the AI just doesn't know how to launch a good maritime assault, which cripples Japan's offensive capabilities. Amphibious infantry would make them a constant threat to all coastal cities in the Pacific rim and would really spice things up I think. (This idea is basically intended to help out the Japanese AI mind you, it would overpower them in the hands of a human player.)

5. Small Scandinavian colonial city at Nuuk/Godthab?

Well, I can't speak for El Justo I think they're good but there might be some problems:

1. Don't see much of a problem. I could come as a patch.

2. The only viable solution would be to beef up the initial garrisons of Canada and Mexico. I can easily see El Justo doing something like that, but it's his call. I've never seen the China AI do much. They're generally too weak, which is how El Justo wanted it. Could come as a patch.

3. I'm going to say this right now, unless El Justo wants to create another version. I don't see him doing this. Historically I can only see Canada as an individual civ, because of the whole "Dominon of Canada" that started in 1867. But Austrailia: I don't see it. Austrailia didn't become a dominon until 1901 so... I do agree Britain needs to be weakened a bit. They're a flipping Godmod. I see this as only a new version.

4. Can't say much on gameplay('cause I haven't played it myself) but historically Japan was just starting to industrialize itself which didn't show paydirt until the Russo-Japanese war(1905-1906) so this is fairly accurate.

 

[Sasebo]

Bogatyr: I haven't played as deeply into the game as you probably have, but I am guessing those events are very lte game one? In all the games I have played, the Mexicans are still around, and the Chinese don't do anything. I have also seen France rise to dominance in Africa; it all depends on who gets into early wars. If France starts fighting Lowlands or Purtugal, or even Germany, they tend to expand their power in Africa a lot and eventually they are dominant there, not Britain. France's colonies are a lot more compact(i.e. closer together), and that seems to help them as well. Granted, Britain does dominate in Africa a lot of times too, but it isn't always them. Plus I think Africa is a nice challenge when you are playing one of the other civs with colonies there.

Point 3 sounds interesting, but if you did that it would change the balance of power among the great powers considerably. That's something I would not do lightly. I don't think that is hostorical either.

Point 4 I disagree with. I've seen the aI in the Pacific dump 12-20 units in a single invasion many times, sometimes on the same turn! Japan doesn't do a lot of that, because they only have so many production centers. A player can do a lot with them but I have gone pretty far with them and it si definitely a challenge. They have a great navy though.

 

[ChaosArbiter]

2. Is there any way to stop the USA AI always taking over all of Canada and Mexico? Or is this just inevitable giving how the AI "thinks" and the comparative strengths of the three territories? (Ditto for the Chinese always conquering SE Asia and the Brits always dominating Africa.)

2. The only viable solution would be to beef up the initial garrisons of Canada and Mexico. I can easily see El Justo doing something like that, but it's his call. I've never seen the China AI do much. They're generally too weak, which is how El Justo wanted it. Could come as a patch.

I've seen both outcomes. Sometimes the Chinese eat Tibet, then go after the French (occasionally the British in India) as a main course. Other times they don't do much. I have never actually seen them lose much territory, though.

I've also seen the British get nearly kicked out of Africa by the French (and not just in games where I'm Germany and have a legitimate interest in seeing them fight each other). I've also seen the British driven out of India by the Ottomans.

I've rarely seen all the berserk rampages in one game (China eating French Indochina, France eating Africa, the Ottomans eating India), but I have seen games where only one of them occurred (France taking Africa, if you're interested), as well as games where parity was maintained on all fronts.

Edit: One thing that would be interesting to see would be either the AI Germans or Dutch/Belgians overrunning a good portion of Africa. The Germans always get into fights with either the British or the Boers, and the Netherlands always lose to France/Britain (which one usually determines who's going to own Africa - if the British take them early, they'll keep the continent, but if the French get in there, it changes hands).

 

[Bogatyr]

All good points. Thanks for the responses. I should be clear that I play on highest difficulty setting with aggressiveness set to "normal" so that might influence the AI.

1. Not much to say here. I just thought it would represent that Brazil's labour force is substantially larger than the other SA countries. I believe their current population is about as big as the rest of SA combined!

2. A) In my games, the USA has nearly always taken out Canada and Mexico by the time I get to the Great War (when I am not playing Britain or Mexico that is!). Sometimes Britain still has Fort Severn or Mexico has kept Baja California. Rarely Mexico takes a Pacific island and stays alive there. But it's a done deal in North America by the Great War 95% of the time. B) I too have seen the Ottomans kick England out of India quite frequently (sometimes with the Persians' help). I like the dynamic in India as is. English, Ottoman, and Persian AI can all make gains depending on the situation. As for Africa, things obviously are different when the player has a claim in the continent (Germany, Holland, etc.). But left to their own devices, the English nearly always dominate the continent eventually. The only time this doesn't happen is if they don't go to war with France before I get Industrialization II. In that case, as soon as Britain declares war on France, I pay the Dutch, Afrikaans, Italians, Ethiopians, Portuguese, Spanish, and Germans to ALL declare war on England. With all the little guys simultaneously attacking them from all sides then it is possible for the AI to prevent English Africa. If they strike France before I can make alliances then it's pretty much too late. They are unstoppable if left to their own devices. (On a side note, I nearly always see Germany pointlessly declare war on Britain and lose its African holdings quite early on.) C) Same deal with China. If they hit France early they will eventually take over the whole of mainland East Asia. But if they haven't made their move by the time I get Ind II then I pay all of their neighbours (Siam, Tibet, France, Germany, Portugal, UK) to gang up on them which is just about enough to stop their enormous horde stack of infantry killing everyone.

I definitely agree that Africa is a lot of fun as is if you have a starting position there. I just noticed that when I'm playing a non-African power (e.g. Japan or USA) then the Brits dominate! But I actually think it's fine as it is. The British were the strongest colonial power there by far, so it's accurate enough. I've never seen France take over Africa, but I suppose it could happen under the right circumstances (rarely though).

3. Yes, I agree that this is probably too big a change at this point. Just thought I'd throw the idea out there.

4. I love playing as Japan. They are one of my favourite powers to play (Italy is fun too!). I guess it's true that they didn't really hit the Pacfic islands until WW2 so it's not a historical problem if they just sit tight all game.


Side Note: Interestingly, Siam always dies in the games I play, but I have seen the Tibetan AI make gains against China and against Britain in India! One game I was playing as Austria and Tibet got up to five cities. (I helped them by paying all of the surrounding powers to declare war on China and the UK too! LOL.)

 

[Nimitz96]

I've seen France capture Mongolia, and some mid-russian cities...so anything can happen, I havent seen the U.S Very Hostile, but ive seen China take some Dutch and thai Cities and the British evicted out of india..interesting...

 

[El Justo]

thanks for the comments all.

i don't see a problem with adding in another worker to brazil.

we also saw a lot of US domination of north america. we added in some extra garrison units, especially in canada. but the real fact of the matter is that if the US mobilized itself during this era, neither canada nor mexico could withstand such a sustained charge. maybe not in 1895 but certainly by the turn of the 20th century. the US industrial base was a beast by 1900 with steel and coal production more than GB and Germany combined. so this is all sort of factored into the gameplay in civ3 terms.

no room left in the civ faction lineup. this means that all the slots are used and no way to separate canada or australia from GB. however, they do have a special status in that they can build distinct units and also industry-type city improvements. so the uniqueness of the dominions is represented. as a sidenote, we separated canada and australia in our cold war mod, TCW. some neat air and sea builds.

japan is active in some games and not so active in others. like some others mentioned, japan has a limited industrial base to work with although there's a high ceiling. great sea units allow for them to be on point in the pacific rim.. they can also build their infantry units anywhere. they also got a kwantung infantry autobuild in manchuria. so there's some pieces there for japan to make noise.

iirc, i added a city to Greenland for the Scandinavian civ (colonial).