Scientology and Xenu

[The Last Conformist]

And you don't think some religions early in their history didn't have similar ambitions? The Catholic Church was the dominant force over Western Europe for at least a thousand years, remember.

Most religions are "non-revealed" ones, that do not have particular beginning in time. Hinduism and Shintoism are well-known examples.

Incidentally, while the RCC has certainly been effective at gathering wealth, that was hardly true of early Christianity.


What, incidentally, is paramilitary about the Swiss Guard? Popes used to field armies, and the Swiss Guard is a remnant of that, not some vigilante force or private militia.

 

[The Last Conformist]

double post

 

[downtown]

I think there's at least one Mormon in these forums, maybe he'll chime in..

Im here. I just found this thread...good heavens, what bullcrap.

The alien thing is NOT true, and i find it so crazy that i wont even dignify it with a response.

the comments about underwear are mostly true. id love to go into an indepth discussion on all of this, but im at work.

I would think that if you wanted infomation on mormons, wouldnt it make sense to go to the source? www.lds.org

I'll be back

 

[ironduck]

Scientology is a sect, nothing more, nothing less.

Saying it's a sect doesn't really tell us anything. As can be clearly seen from all the testimonies from former members and all the evidence that is available, it is a money-making scheme for the top dogs (David Miscavige in particular) through the use of slave labour, coercion, and brain washing techniques. So it's both a cult (closed group espousing a secret knowledge), a pyramid scheme (buy your way to ever higher levels and if you cannot pay do so by recruiting new members who can), and a criminal organization (assault, murder, theft).

 

[Sophie 378]

I would have said cult, anyway....

edit, whoopsy, read the last page before posting you silly person

 

[ironduck]

Im here. I just found this thread...good heavens, what bullcrap.

I don't know much about Mormons really other than I've heard of the polygamy and active proselytizing etc.. so I looked at that site you linked to, and it says:

The Book of Mormon is another witness that Jesus Christ really lived, that He was and is God’s Son. It contains the writings of ancient prophets. One of these, Lehi, lived in Jerusalem around 600 B.C. God commanded Lehi to lead a small group of people to the American continent. There they became a great civilization.

Umm.. that doesn't really match up with any history of America that I know of..

(edit - added to the quote, was too out of context)

 

[downtown]

well Iron, i was aiming my comment more about the crap about aliens.

there is some debate within Mormons as to how exactly the Nephites and Lamenites match up in History. Some day they all died out, some say they became native americans, influenced other central american cutlures, etc. There actually *is* some limited fossil record to back up the story (ores found in areas that the book of mormon said they would be....some old cities...etc)

i doubt enough evidence will ever be found to make it 100% slam dunk foolproof theory...but i dont think its as outlandish as you might think

 

[The Last Conformist]

There actually *is* some limited fossil record to back up the story (ores found in areas that the book of mormon said they would be....some old cities...etc)

Reference?


But we probably should take further Mormon discussions to a separate thread.

 

[Dr. Yoshi]

Incidentally, while the RCC has certainly been effective at gathering wealth, that was hardly true of early Christianity.

Yup that's true, I should have put down earlier history.

What, incidentally, is paramilitary about the Swiss Guard? Popes used to field armies, and the Swiss Guard is a remnant of that, not some vigilante force or private militia.

Vigilantes and private militia they may be but they are still soldiers in an army. They may not have the long standing tradition of the Swiss Guard but the two are certainly similar in function.

 

[ironduck]

I agree, let's make a new thread for the Mormon stuff, this is for exposing scientology's lies and violence.

Matt, maybe you could make a new thread with the evidence for this fossil record you speak of?

 

[ironduck]

Vigilantes and private militia they may be but they are still soldiers in an army. They may not have the long standing tradition of the Swiss Guard but the two are certainly similar in function.

The Swiss guard today only serves to protect the Vatican state. They are basically bodyguards.

Scientology's secret police (which is not the sea org, the sea org is the name of the executive agency, and because of the structure of scientology they can order whatever they want) works similar to the Stasi or the KGB. It doesn't really make sense to compare them to the Swiss guard of the Vatican state.

 

[The Last Conformist]

Vigilantes and private militia they may be but they are still soldiers in an army. They may not have the long standing tradition of the Swiss Guard but the two are certainly similar in function.

That doesn't answer my question.

 

[downtown]

I agree, let's make a new thread for the Mormon stuff, this is for exposing scientology's lies and violence.

Matt, maybe you could make a new thread with the evidence for this fossil record you speak of?

I will be happy to as soon i can find the journal articles that referenced it. I would be remiss to start a thread and not have the evidence to back it up

 

[Dr. Yoshi]

That doesn't answer my question.

Ok, judging from the requirements of the Swiss Guard, I would say yes. The Swiss have compulsory military service so there is no distinction between civilian and military there it would seem.

Besides, what difference is there between paramilitary and military anyway? Both are trained to kill. Both have the same mindset. There's no distinction between them to me. Just because a nation endorses one sect as its official military doesn't mean the smaller organizations are not militaries.

 

[Homie]

Dude, you haven't the slightest clue about the Swiss Guard do you? They are NOT the Swiss Army. Once upon a time long ago they were Swiss Mercenaries hired to protect the Pope and the Vatican, kind of like bodyguards. Today they are mostly for show (they were those flamboyent old costumes) but they are also trained bodyguards. They are NOT an army, they are only 100 men. You thougt the Swiss population was drafted to protect the Vatican, do you know how silly that sounds?

And just because the Swiss have compulsory military service does not mean there is no difference between civilian and soldier in Switzerland. Do you know what other countries have compulsory military service: Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Iceland and many others.

 

[Dr. Yoshi]

I'd rather not argue about this any longer.

We have gotten off the topic of scientology: a corrupt order as corrupt as the Church.

 

[ironduck]

I didn't realize scientology was corrupt. I'm sure David Miscavige does his best to control it in the hardest possible way so that no one makes money that he doesn't allow them to make.

If you mean morally corrupt then, well, it's a criminal organization from the ground up, it was constructed as such.

 

[The Last Conformist]

I heard of a case of a LA Scientologist manager who diverted CoS funds to a sham bank that lent money to clients so they could afford courses, thus upping his recruitment statistics. I'd be very surprised if that was the only incident of its kind.

 

[Homie]

How big is it anyway, it can't possibly be very big. Any scientologist here willing to jump into the discussion, I promise I won't harass/insult you.

 

[The Last Conformist]

About 70k worldwide, supposedly.