Sealth Bomber vs Nuclear sub

[Bacon King]

@Galleon beating a sub- The Galleon doesn't even have to attack the sub when it was taking damage. Maybe a torpedo jammed and blew up the sub. Maybe someone onboard went crazy and opened the nuclear reactor. Maybe the sub crew is just plain incompetent, and did something stupid like surfacing 10 feet away.

Theres many possibilities there, there just all unlikely. And a sub loosing to a galleon is unlikely. But theres still a slim chance. Thats how the RNG works.

 

[Nicci]

hey bacon king, who's that in the picture?

 

[Turner]

Originally posted by Speedo


Nothing, but its not going to have any idea where to drop them so that they actually hit.

To make it realistic to how deadly a modern nuclear attack sub is, you'd need a system some to the effect of say, every surface ship's defense value is 25% of normal when being attacked by a sub. You'd also need a system so that only certain ships (ie destroyer and aegis cruiser) could attack/detect subs. Other ships would just never know that they were there.

Originally posted by YNCS

Do your galleons have towed array sonars or just hull mounted models?

The problem with ASW (anti-submarine warfare) isn't killing the sub as finding it. Submarines were the first stealth weapons platform. It wasn't until World War I, 15 years after the first efficient, capable submarine entered the scene, that ASDIC, later called sonar, was developed. ASDIC (which stands for Allied Submarine Detection Investigation Committee) originally had an effective range of about 100 meters. It wasn't until WW2 that sonar's range was extended to 1000 meters. Nowadays, active sonars have effective ranges of 4000 meters and passive sonars can detect submerged submarines at ranges of 20,000 meters (if they're extremely lucky).

Note: The above is very simplistic. I just want to point out that 15th Century sailing ships are not good ASW platforms.

Yeah, and tanks aren't supposed to lose to Spearmen, either.

I can see it as the Galley getting lucky, just dropping charges off. Sure, torps are fired off from 10k' +. . . Why can't the galley be updated with sonar?

Originally posted by Nicci
hey bacon king, who's that in the picture?

Seriously? That's Fred Rogers.

 

[Bacon King]

Yea thats Mr Rogers, i thought the "woncha be my neiber?" title would give it away...

 

[hbdragon88]

@ Bacon King - Maybe they decided to self-destruct too.

 

[SinisterDeath]

We have a galleon in the harbor where I live - IT'S A RESTAURANT!

Next time I'm in, I'll make sure to ask the manager what he thinks his chances against a submarine are...

 

[tirpidz]

Originally posted by Nicci


no. the germans sank the bismarck themselves! i admit: after it got torpedoed by the english.

The Bismark Fired EVERY single Round before sinking. it wasnt the german BUT the Bristish that sunk the bismark.

with 1 torpedo ( from a StringBag that hit the gourvernail) then 4-5 other torpedo from their battleship & EVERY bullet/shell/Gun their armada got.

German didnt had to sunk the birmar ( you dont sunk your most Powerfull ship for fun ) it was the British navy.

 

[hbdragon88]

No, it was the Germans that sank the Bismarck. I had to watch a documentary in class where James Cameroon went down to the sunken Bismarck and forensically recreated the battle. Sure the British fired torpeados, but only one hit and the Bismarck was built with boxes - I mean that only one compartment filled up. Most of the shells also didn't penetrate.

They didn't sink it for fun, it was because there was no way out. What, you have three British ships firing like crazy at a battleship - pretty soon they would have no men at all.

Edit: Found a link that talks about Cameroon's expedition:
http://www.uh.edu/admin/engines/epi1758.htm

 

[trumpeteer]

Originally posted by Bacon King
@Galleon beating a sub- The Galleon doesn't even have to attack the sub when it was taking damage. Maybe a torpedo jammed and blew up the sub. Maybe someone onboard went crazy and opened the nuclear reactor. Maybe the sub crew is just plain incompetent, and did something stupid like surfacing 10 feet away.

Theres many possibilities there, there just all unlikely. And a sub loosing to a galleon is unlikely. But theres still a slim chance. Thats how the RNG works.

I just know I've heard something before about another constantly-raging rivalry involving the RNG between an outdated soldier using a melee weapon and a sophisticated mobile gun platform using a tread system...
I think the Nuclear Sub should somehow be able to go under outdated ships such as Galleons. That is, occupy the same square without combat occuring. I know it would take a lot of working out to find a solution, but it doesn't make sense that a sub can't dive a couple thousand feet to avoid a fleet of Galleons.

 

[tirpidz]

in order to clarify the Bismarck last moment:

Almost two hours had elapsed since the battle began, and the Bismarck had shown a formidable capacity of resistance. The British first struck Bismarck at 0902, and ceased fire around 1016. For 74 minutes, the Bismarck received a continuous hammering that no other warship could have taken. We don't have to forget that the Hood sank six minutes after the first German shells were fired. Moreover, neither the main belt or the armour deck were seen to be penetrated during the combat, and in the end it was her own crew who scuttled the ship. During this last engagement 2,876 shells were fired at the Bismarck. They are categorised as follows:

380 of 40.6 cm from Rodney
339 of 35.6 cm from King George V
527 of 20.3 cm from Norfolk
254 of 20.3 cm from Dorsetshire
716 of 15.2 cm from Rodney
660 of 13.3 cm from King George V

We will never know how many of them did actually hit (400, 500, 600, maybe more), but taking into account the short distances in the last phase of the combat, it is assumed that many shells hit.

 

[tirpidz]

only the Yamoto sister ship had taken more damage:
( 25-35 torpedo) and had taken like 1-2 hours to sunk (it was the bigest battleship ever)

 

[SinisterDeath]

To clarify the Bismarck battle, I have to add some things I saw on A&E about it. Indeed it was proven that the Germans did scuttle the ship, a mini-sub was sent down, and the blast holes corresponded with what the surviving German sailors had said happened.

However, the reason that she did not succumb to the massive shelling is that the ships closed in and blasted the Bismarck from too close a range. The result of this was that the shells passed right through the ship and detonated in areas that were not "critical". Also, a large number of shells glanced off the armor due to their ultra-high velocities, whereas, if they would have stayed at a more "normal" gunnery range, they would have done more damage and ripped her to shreds.

 

[Bacon King]

I will also have to confirm: The Germans sunk the Bismark themselves.

This really should be in the history forum...

 

[MacPhisto]

Subs should be beefed up in upcoming civ games... it's shameful how weak they are.

They make good spies, are good against transports... that's all. Even in real life they should be a MAJOR problem... the Falkland's War anyone? The British used 3 WW2 torpedos to scare the Argentinian navy back to port. Heh!

All well. I do like equiping them with tac nukes... it's not very economical, but they are handy in taking out "AI naval stacks of doom."

 

[Lord Beverage]

Perhaps modding subs to be range one, fast attack, low mobility, lethal, sea based artillery might be more akin to thier real military purposes (Other than hiding tactical nukes.), and make naval combat fun and exciting...

...or make them horribly horribly overpowered.

Either way they'll be useful at last!

 

[trumpeteer]

Make naval combat fun! Maybe in Civ6 or so! I rarely engage in naval combat 'cause the AI ships are off in the middle of nowhere hoping to intercept an enemy whale or something, rather than being strategically placed in choke-points and stuff.

 

[SinisterDeath]

The AI can't use artillery well, it's attacking strategies suck, and it can't use ships either.

 

[fephisto]

Originally posted by Vietcong
steal nuke lunch code!!!!!! great idea!! then u can "lunch" one of ther nuks onto another civ and make it look like the one that u stole the code from did it!!! i love it!

This is.....a......GREAT IDEA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I love it....A better way to kill France ^_^

 

[MadHatter]

Originally posted by Vietcong
steal nuke lunch code!!!!!!

I'm just not that hungry.

 

[tirpidz]

let just give the nuclear sub & sub the precision strike, just like the sealth plane in conquest ( allow them to chose an unit to attak even if it's not on the top of the stack) so transport will always be at threat....