Selahaddin: Kurd or Turk?

[Tunch Khan]

I had always known Selahaddin Ayyubi as a Kurd up until I came across a recent article about him being half Turkish and half Kurdish. He also married a Turkish lady and all of his children as well as all of his brothers also had Turkish brides or husbands. I know it was not a time when etnicities were relevant back then and loyalty to the feudal lord and religion mattered the most. But I'd still appreciate if anyone else had more accurate information on this.

 

[luiz]

He was a Kurd.

 

[pawpaw]

He was a Kurd.

Likewise, I've never heard anyother.

 

[blindside]

He is usually considered a Kurd but you're right, it could be possible he was slightly mixed being an elite and all. Still I think he really was a Kurdish leader and fought against the Turks and then Crusaders.

 

[Xen]

He was a Kurd.

Likewise, I've never heard anyother.

same here, on all counts.

 

[mitsho]

He was ethnically Kurd, but ruled an arabian empire, and can therefore be considered culturally Arab which is also the reason why he is leading the Arabs in civIV!

Btw. this is the 'weirdest' way of writing his name I've ever seen...

mitsho

 

[Tunch Khan]

I was actually asking for information rather than personal opinions but thank you anyway. About Selahaddin fighting the Turks; he only usurped the title of Atabeg of Damascus from the son of his former overlord Nureddin in a bloodless show of force. Up until that moment he served Nureddin as a loyal general, just like his father and uncle served Nureddin's father Zengi (the Seljuk Lord of Mosul, Aleppo and Damascus). He never proclaimed independence from Nureddin until Nureddin's death, even when he was crowned as Sultan of Egypt, he received the title on behalf of Nureddin due to his respect/loyalty and his father's pressures.

So going back to my question, I'm wondering if anyone can lead me to any reliable source.

 

[jeriko one]

Btw. this is the 'weirdest' way of writing his name I've ever seen...

That is the Turkish writing of Saladin.



Actually the name is Salah-ad Din. If you see `-ad Din` in a name it means `of religion`.

John Keegan tells he is a Kurd. The Turks say he is a Turk. He comes from a region populated by Turks and Kurds so both of the answers may be right.

 

[Esox]

John Keegan does say he was a Kurd. The Turk confusion probably comes from the fact that much of his army was Turkish slaves, and it was the crusaders and their descendants who wrote most of the history we read.

 

[Tunch Khan]

It doesn't really matter what his ethnicity is at this point, but I'm just curious about the details and wether if anyone has any information about his mother's side.

 

[mitsho]

@jeriko_one thanks, interesting to know. I actually always (well, since I got to know it) wrote him Salah al-Din.

mitsho

 

[Yoda Power]

Ethnicallity meant very little in medieval Middle East, actually nationalism did not occur in the ME before the end of the 19th century, that is why the Ottomans could remain in control of such a huge empire for so long.

Salladin could have been a lot of different things and mixes between the nationalities. The only thing we DO know for sure is that he came from Kurdish territory, and it is therefore probable that he spoke Kurdish.

 

[Takhisis]

What do the Kurds say about that?

 

[Tunch Khan]

What do the Kurds say about that?

Especially with Saladin as the leader for Arabs. lol.

A Kurdish general in Turkish Seljuk Army to represent Arabs; and all because they are all muslim.

 

[blindside]

Especially with Saladin as the leader for Arabs. lol.

A Kurdish general in Turkish Seljuk Army to represent Arabs; and all because they are all muslim.

Well he hardly represented the Arabs. Didn't he rise to power after the Seljuks were setback during the first crusade.

 

[Tunch Khan]

I was talking about Civ IV Arabs.

 

[mitsho]

Saladin was Sultan of Egypt and much more, although he at first may have been Kurd or served in a Turkish army, he was nevertheless the leader of the Arabs in the fight against the Europeans (and others).
Napoleon has also been Corsican at first, nevertheless, he's a French leader.
Same with Catherine (Germany -> Russia), Stalin (Georgia -> Russia) or Kublai Khan (Mongol -> China, but still Mongol leader in civIV).

mitsho

 

[Tunch Khan]

There wasn't an Arab nation back then, so I wouldn't think Saladin (Salah al-Din) considered himself as the leader of Arabs. He wasn't even the leader of all muslims as larger portions of the Islamic world lay under seperate authorities. Loyalties were feudal in his age. His army mostly consisted of Turkish Mameluk troops and later on as he occupied Syria and usurped the lordship, other Seljuk Turkish units, remnants of the army of his former Turkish overlord joined his forces. Thes forces were supported by other local militia and auxilaries as well as foreign merceneries on occasions, but never an Arab army. He just happened to establish his authorithy in a land populated mostly by Arabs. There were times in histoy that these lands were occupied by other foreign nationals as Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, Crusaders, Turks and Mongols but no one would consider them to represent Arabs.

Catherine, Napoleon and Stalin are all recent examples when the notions of country and nation are well defined, while Kubilai Khan was leader of the Mongolians who happened to invade all of China at the time. He; himself and his contemporaries, as well as foreign emissaries considered and referred to him as Mongolian or Tartar at its best.

 

[Mukhayriq]

Hi everyone I'm just passing by to this forum to make it clear that Saladin tribe has Arab origins and his descendants never claimed to be Kurd.
He was from a Kurdified Arab tribe.

In the 12th and 13th century you will find sources stating he is from the Rawadiya tribe of the Kurds and so are most of the Ayyubids.

The Rawaddiya are a Kurdified Arab tribe.

Qatran Tabrizi the poet who lived during the time of Rawadiya Dynasty surrounding currrent day Tabriz and Azerbaidjan even recalls them having Arab ancestry and one of the Emir of the Rawadiya even recalls his mixed Arab and Iranian ancestry.

So Saladin and the Ayyubids were Kurdified Arabs who regained their Arabness, hence their descendants never claim to be Kurds.

So Civilization highlighting him as part of Eyyubid and it being Arab is actually correct, since they had Arab origins, their descendants claimed Arabness and their state was run in Arabic.

 

[Ajidica]

You could have at least waited a few more months until this thread was 20 years old!