September Patch Notes Discussion

[Duuk]

Great Admirals are frickin' amazing now. (and I finally picked up my Eleanor win... a religious victory on a terra map.)

Muahahahahahaha

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Time for me to try out the new Terra map tonight .

 

[Futumch]

Advanced Setup now allows the player to select their civilization color (jersey).

This is a really nice addition. It puts the choice back in the hands of the player rather than an arbritrary "colour selection" algorithm. If I wanted to play with six red+colour civs, now I can.
The icon / tile selection screen for generating new maps is a pretty nice thought too.

I didn't even notice this patch slip through.

Just gonna have a bash at a Primordial map with Natural Disasters on 4.

 

[sonicmyst]

My only gripe with the map selection screen is I always have to scroll to select "Shuffle".

 

[Victoria]

(edit)No great admirals for me ... WC blocked me

Reefs seem such nice tiles now, here without any fancy additions beyond shipyard

RNDY Upgrade test shows +1MP is kept.
Before

After

 

[criZp]

What great people bug?

 

[Stilgar08]

I started Diety Terra.

First game Peter, spawned in desert with no tundra in sight. Ok, desert folklore if I can get it. Khmer wanders up with a warrior. I had gone scout/slinger to open. Just as the slinger comes out two more warriors show up and they declare.

Second game, got Vicky on a decent but not amazing river coastal spot. Monty's capital is 5 hexes away and he's mad from the get go...

Third game, got Vicky again. Pericles to north, Shaka to east, Indonesia to SE. I see three Indo warriors strolling towards me but fortunately Shaka gets in a three way war with Germany and Indonesia so the Indonesian warriors detour into Zulu lands. I manage to stay peaceful and make friends. Eventually discover Norway and Phoenicia are also in the game but I somehow get caravels first and reach the new world. I've got ten envoys banked and get suz with ten CS the first turn I meet a CS in the new world in a chain reaction of discovery, size, and more discovery.

Seems to work as intended for me...

 

[Hogimus]

Seems like the AI is better since patch. I'm playing my first game with the new patch as Vicky on a Terra map, and after a slow start where I got bottled in, I've expanded to the new world and had no competition for that space yet. Chandra is a run away success on in the old world though, and I tried to intervene in a military emergency to prevent him from conquering Australia. I'm playing on Emperor and he had calvary before turn 200. That made his city defences too strong to outright take with my nearby Caravels, so I moved all of them over, and was able to get a frigate from a recently built RND. He was then able to get walls up with in the first 5 turns of the emergency, and once the Frigate started to bombarded it seemed like it was doing no damage. His city defence was at 60, and I was bombarding with a frigate with a great admiral. Is it normal that it was doing basically no damage? I know most units, except siege units, do not do full damage to city walls, but what penalty do naval ranged units have for attacking city walls? Shouldn't they be the same as siege units?

 

[nauberry]

Great people bug still showing.. no great admirals for me

Are you sure they were not banned in WC?

 

[Victoria]

Are you sure they were not banned in WC?

Good point, I’ll check when I can next get on but I do not remember any WC vote , it is just gone renaissance and I have been voting on things, but you never know

 

[Boyan_Sun]

One change I am most concerned about so far was that -20% to all resource harvest/chop yields: 25->20 (banana,rice,deer,cattle,fish,sheep,stone,wheat), 50->40(copper,crab).
It will have a big impact on some Chinese tactics, but was not mentioned in the patch note (maybe I missed it)?

 

[racha]

Anyone finding they can't progress after capturing a city on account of the keep city button not working? Has anyone pinned down which mod causes the issue? I've completely gotten rid of Concise UI (a fairly likely suspect for most UI-related issues) pending it being updated but still getting stuck.

 

[Victoria]

One change I am most concerned about so far was that -20% to all resource harvest/chop yields: 25->20

I think Dennis mentioned it briefly in the initial feed but thanks for the reminder!
I’ll check it out.

His city defence was at 60, and I was bombarding with a frigate with a great admiral. Is it normal that it was doing basically no damage?

They are not siege units, no nor use ‘bombard’ attacks.
The frigate is -50% damage but does not get the -17% (at least not before the patch, will check)
However wall HP have increased so what level walks were they?

EDIT.. @Hogimus ... here is the explanartion.. at least you are not land ranged which also are at -17

After the attack it shows it did 18 damage. The thing is now the wall is 8% damaged you will start doing more to the garrison... it starts to get better the more shots you take... The first always looks hopeless. This is all covered in the city combat link at the bottom of this post. These lines from the guide are key

• Naval ranged is at -50% damage but does not suffer -17 ranged strength.
• When a wall is in place it reduces the garrison damage by the % of the walls HP that are left.
• The minimum damage done to walls.garrison is 1HP.

 

[criZp]

I'm pretty sure naval ranged counts as bombard (even if they are not called bombard) and does not have -50% strength vs walls as defined in globalparameters file

Referring to those:
<Replace Name="COMBAT_DEFENSE_DAMAGE_PERCENT_BOMBARD" Value="100" />
<Replace Name="COMBAT_DEFENSE_DAMAGE_PERCENT_RANGED" Value="50" />

 

[Hogimus]

Thanks for the info @Victoria . It may make certain naval units OP, but I wonder if naval ranged units should be treated the same as siege units.

 

[Pietato]

I think Dennis mentioned it briefly in the initial feed but thanks for the reminder!
I’ll check it out.

Everything is coming up Kupe!

 

[Stringer1313]

Thanks for the info @Victoria . It may make certain naval units OP, but I wonder if naval ranged units should be treated the same as siege units.

It has always bugged me how strong naval ranged units are against cities. Like you suggest, they are siege units without their cumbersome nature - they have tons more movement points and don't have hills/forests to get in their way, and plus they are harder to catch. It has always felt OP to me to be able to bombard the city to oblivion so quickly with frigates.

 

[Sostratus]

I'm pretty sure naval ranged counts as bombard (even if they are not called bombard) and does not have -50% strength vs walls as defined in globalparameters file

Its very easy to get confused because the normal -17 str penalty a typical ranged type attack gets vs walls (and is displayed on the combat preview!) is equal to -50%.
However as @Victoria educated me recently there is an entirely separate, hidden, resistance that walls have. So effectively walls:
Take -80% from melee
Take -75% from ranged (0.5*0.5)
Take -50% from siege

One change I am most concerned about so far was that -20% to all resource harvest/chop yields: 25->20 (banana,rice,deer,cattle,fish,sheep,stone,wheat), 50->40(copper,crab).

For some reason my brain says this nerf was only to resources and not features but I could be wrong. This just puts resources in line with features. I don't recall seeing any sub-20's when chopping woods yesterday. Could be totally wrong, sometimes magnus slips in, the sneaky dog.

 

[Victoria]

I'm pretty sure naval ranged counts as bombard (e

1. I just sorta proved the 50% reduction is in place.
2. If you look in units.xml at a bomber it says attack type bombard, if you look at frigate it says ranged.

... and yes @Sostratus it was just to bonus resources... but
0% from sieged
-85% damage from melee
-17 and -50% damage from land ranged
-50% damage from naval and fighters <- must check fighters

-17 is not the same as 50% in my head, one is variable, the other fixed. You can think of it both ways but I think it is misleading to join them

 

[criZp]

Its very easy to get confused because the normal -17 str penalty a typical ranged type attack gets vs walls (and is displayed on the combat preview!) is equal to -50%.
However as @Victoria educated me recently there is an entirely separate, hidden, resistance that walls have. So effectively walls:
Take -80% from melee
Take -75% from ranged (0.5*0.5)
Take -50% from siege

No, as I just posted, there are lines in global parameters xml that define damage reduction to walls. melee units have 85% damage reduction. ranged units have 50% damage reduction, but also have -17 combat modifier vs city defenses, which act as an additional -50%. However, Bombard units have no damage reduction vs city defenses, and naval ranged counts as bombard, thus they have no damage reduction vs city walls.