SGOTM 02 - Team CFR

Antibarbs tactics
a) Archers are expected - not hasten with promotion (may be cover)
b) The reserve is protected NW direction on near distances - The reserve is necessary for us
c) Max fortification 25% is preferable
d) Deviation and moving of a line of defense at average chances;
Note SW Hill near Osaka looks unpersuasively
e) Not attack without emergency
 
I've checked an double-checked my calculations, and about the earliest we can build the Oracle in Akotsgrad, settling the city immediately and with an all-out chopping effort by our workers, is around T110 (850BC), which is already very risky.

Team Peanut made their move... No religion.

It's time.

After Careful Consideration Of Each Plan And Every Variation Therein Proposed By The Great Minds Of Team CFR At This Crucial Strategic Point In The Game, Balbes Hath Played.
:worship: :worship: :worship:


[0] Inherited turn. Adjusted food in Osaka for growth in 7 turns. Production switched to Warrior. Research switched to Mathematics.
[1] We lose yet another warrior on the oasis hill. Adjusted our warriors' positions to eliminate immediate threat to Osaka. Worker goes to mine the iron hill.
[2][3] Zzzzz
[4] Warrior done, dispatched to the Southeast to bust fog there. Start Warrior.
[5] Our picket line is advancing south, skirmishing constantly with barbarian raiding parties.
[6] Osaka grows. Iron mine ready. Osaka switched back to gold mine, iron mine.
[7] Worker begins road.
[8] Warrior done, garrisoned in Osaka. Resume Worker.
[9] Balbesgrad was founded in the south.
[10] Road done, worker moves to chop a forest.
[11]
[12] 2nd worker complete, moves to chop another forest.
[13] As akots took 12 turns I took 13 to even out the turn number; the next two players should take 12 and 13 turns as well to return us to %10.

cfr-sgotm2-1150bc.jpg


Barbarian control: 5 warriors, 2 archers killed for the loss of 1 warrior. There is very little fog left. Anyhow, after turn 90 barbarian attacks should begin declining.

Our SW warrior is fully fortified on the plains hill; he should be kept there, as moving him to a forest won't add any further bonus.

The Woodsman II warrior can move quickly through the forests West of Osaka to respond to any threats from that direction.

If our line is breached, send the warrior now in reserve in Osaka there to plug the hole, and, depending on the situation, consider building an axeman. Osaka can build it in 4 turns, just quick enough to be ready to protect the city and its improvements.

Logistics: The northern worker will complete his chop 1 turn before Mathematics comes in. So be sure to pause him for 1 turn.

The second settler will be ready immediately after Mathematics. To reach and settle Akotsgrad, it takes 1 more turn than the other city, so the first settler should begin moving out 1 turn in advance.

After Mathematics, start Priesthood and we'll get it right after the founding of both cities. Osaka begins the Palace, our workers contribute 1 chop each to the palace, then run to improve the horses first, and then chop the Oracle.

Discussion: The most important strategic decision I take responsibility for is not building Akotsgrad right away. My analysis demonstrated that the city won't be effective: its small production is just about completely cancelled out by the financial burden of maintenance. This means our research slows down by half (e.g. Priesthood: 4 turns -> 6 turns, Mathematics: 17 turns to Very Long). The extra hammers from Math will compensate for the slower start, and we'll also have the tech in our bag, and an extra city, with the Palace right around the corner. :king:
 
OK, we are moving and this is good. This game is slow, so one has to be patient to see any progress.

Roster:

Dynamic
CB
Obormot
Psitsa
akots
Balbes - just played
Lexad - UP
IL2T - Preparing


Indeed I've already lost track of what is planned but seems we are doing fine. Just need a couple of swords and/or axes to hold off the barbarians.
 
Do we need or want the CS slingshot? If we ignore Pottery, Code of Laws should be ready at about the same time as the Oracle.
 
Of course we want it but I'm not sure if we can get it. Pottery should be like 4 turns only, that is not a big deal. Also, in the near future, Kyoto is supposed to be able to whip something. And we certainly need Granaries everywhere first build after there is military protection. The cities have to grow and the power of granaries is vastly underestimated usually. Especially powerful they are with whipping but that is a bit of minor concern right now. Bringing all cities to population cap is the first priority IMO.

The problem with CS is that it unlocks some techs towards alternative path away from Astronomy. And this we do not want at all since we are supposed to "research" Astronomy with Great People. Though Calendar, Math and that other stuff should be researched on our own.
 
Moreover, we might just kill everyone with swords and cats and never need Civil Service. So I personally believe we don't want it before Astronomy, but I'm inviting opinions.
 
Swords, horse archers and cats against logbowmen mightbe not such a good idea. But we might just be able to wrap it up with knights/cats and may be some pikemen. This is a long way ahead from now however. The only thing that is clear is that we want a large army and many ships and get there fast. We would still need some income to support this research and large military, may be to finance some upgrades as well.
 
I haven't made calculations for the new situation, but I'm totally againsy delaying Oracle any longer - and trying to build it in akotsgrad now feels to me like delay. I'll make exact calculations this evening maybe and then present the team with my development program, as usual ;)
 
We left the safety zone on the Oracle as early as ~20 turns ago. From now on, it won't be surprising to see it built by the AI on the very next turn. Therefore, as we're already taking a risk, I'm stretching it, increasing both the risk and the payoff. It's a conscious decision.

Taken into account, among other things, is the significantly ******** AI development in this game (late Buddhism, late Judaism, no Stonehenge so far), and the apparent success of the other teams at building wonders late.
 
Looks like we left safety not only of zone of Oracle. We left zone of military safety. I strongly intend now to build three axemans. Otherwise we have rick of loosing city any new city very soon after foundation or even on the road to founding. In my opinion - switch to Priesthood, immediately found third city fnd start chopping Oracle. Osaka building order - 3 axes - settler - axe - Palace.
 
CB, militarily we're safer than ever before. First of all, barbarian attacks decrease very much after they begin building cities. Also, our warriors can, and successfully have, beat archers. Our fog-busting has reduced the barb spawning zone to just a few tiles. The biggest danger we may be facing is the occasional lone axeman. We can delay him if nothing else for the 4 turns it takes Osaka to produce the counter.

By all means we should build the 3 axemen, but not as top priority. Rather, slot them in whenever Osaka has nothing better to do (and the barracks should come before that).
 
For example, on the second move south-western archer can kill (more than 50%) hill-warrior. This will bring a huge area of fog - and in two-three turns there appears 2-3 barb axes... What about this variant? Do you think it's impossible? Of course we'll hold on, but all prechopped forest in this case will go to defense.
 
You mean south-west, right?
Less than 50%, actually (3.0 first strike vs. 3.2). Yes, we can hold, it's more than 4 turns from there to Osaka. And after we settle the city there (in just 6 turns), the sentries will be able to move futher out and completely eliminate the fog.
 
Balbes said:
You mean south-west, right?
Less than 50%, actually (3.0 first strike vs. 3.2). Yes, we can hold, it's more than 4 turns from there to Osaka. And after we settle the city there (in just 6 turns), the sentries will be able to move futher out and completely eliminate the fog.


You sure axemans will wait this 6 turns? :D
 
Cat Behemoth said:
You sure axemans will wait this 6 turns? :D
It's pretty likely they will. We play this game by balancing risks against payoffs, and while extra heavy defense as adopted by some of the other teams is an option, the definition of finesse is doing more with less.
 
3 Axes are too much, may be 1. Don't forget we start lose stored hammers after ~10 turns.
And let Kyoto grow.
 
Save

(0) 1150 - move warrior from Osaka towards western archer. Kyoto - 1 scientist set to fish
(1) 1120 - both archers approach. Hold position in the wood across the river.
IBT both archers lose to warriors
(2) 1090 - continue defending. Move settler out to future Akotsgrad spot to help fogbusting. Kyoto grows to 4, citizen set as scientist.
(3) 1060 - discovered Maths, continue pre-chopping. Set to Priesthood in 4 turns
(4) 1030 - barb warrior SW.
(5) 1000 - approaaches
IBT - kills himsef on hill warrior. Anti archer promotion.
(6) 985 (15-year increment) - archer appear SE, goes away
(7) 970 - Phood, Pottery in 4 turns, GS born in Kyoto. Sleep him there till we get access to Compass.
(8) 955 - Archer apears again E from Akotsgrad spot, IBT loses to our warrior. Warrior appears SW. First forest chopped for Oracle, but produce setler. Stonehenge built, we get 88 coins. Next task is boat.
(9) 940 - second wood chopped for Oracle, settler in 1 turn. NE appears Spanish settler escorted by archer. Good that our setter is already on the spot and will be able to claim it first
(10) 925 - barb warrior dead. Settler goes to smthgrad spot. Oracle is 7 turns less 1 chop to go. Spaniards continue south along our border.
(11) 910 - Pottery, pick Sailing to unlock Calendar and Compass. Move citizen for 1 turn from sheep to plains wood to finish Oracle in 2 turns instead of 3.
Spanish move SE, and all our settlers are on the spots. Found Akotsgrad in the SE (upkeep 10) and Obormotgrad (upkeep 9) in SW - I beieve it was him who first corrected smthgrad's location. Obormotgrad is building worker, Akotsgrad - palace. Workers are on the way to horses and then - chopping
(12) - spanish turn back NW. barb archer E from Akotsgrad. Move citizen back to Sheep. Kyoto is 5 and unhealthy.
(13) - Oracle, get Metal Casting. warrior kills barb archer. Next build in Osaka - axe (4 turns). My proposal - prebuild until 1 turn left, then, if no threat arises, build barracks first and then finish axe.

Why did I not chop settler but lost 1 worker turn: when building settler, food is also converted to hammers. I got extra hammers for building settler without chops, the longer way, and even then had to switch for 1 turn 1 citizen from Sheep to wood to squeeze into 13-turn limit.
 

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Excellent. Just one note. Maybe Sailing is too early now? I prefer CoL - Confucianism + 1 free missionary can help to expand borders. Or CoL is strongly unwanted now?
 
I've no problems with CoL, Sailing is there like 2 turns of research. The weak point, haven't thought thoroughly about the research path after Oracle.
 
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