SGOTM 02 - Team CFR

[Balbes]

Warrior have 2.2+25%+25% = 3.3 strength. Barbs archers have too much chances!

The archer's chances are approximately 40% for every combat, so the odds of the archer beating 3 warriors are 6%, and only this high if the archer emerges undamaged every time. In reality his chaces of getting past the 2nd warrior are practically zero.

I think that at least we must stop unfogging that tile once we have built a more substantial army.

 

[Lexad]

Balbes
Your argument about cities is correct (you even overestimated Lexadgrad a bit ), but it assumes us using bare forest for production - and it will be chopped down when we need many ships fast - Galleon takes 120 hammers. Also it requires happiness resources enough to employ 10 citizens in Cordoba, thus needing a Forge, a temple and maybe even a state religion - or sugar. All this would also require some chopping. A Courthouse is in order, granary, and lighthouse too - more chops. I'd think it reasonable to count only non-forested areas, as forests will mostly be chopped by the time we seriously start to use "populate" them. Then the balance is:
Lexadgrad 13 (15 with 1 forest), pop 5, rather fast to achieve.
Cordoba 5 (up to 16 depending on deforestation) - maybe a pop-rushing city
Seville 8 before Sugar, then up to 13.

I like your idea, and it should be discussed in more depth, with city growth and research rates' comparison (i.e. will we be able to get that much pop in 2 cities fast).

Building cottages is also a good idea, but they need time to kick in. Again, we shall try to count the number of turns remaining to see whether this is efficient.

Edit: as for trying to grow barb cities on 1-2 tiles, I fear that doesn't work. They need more adjacent dark tiles and have much less spawning probability.

 

[Balbes]

Akotsgrad is supposed to be able to swiftly change its role by moving citizens between hills and library as we've discussed.

Can you describe the plan one more time? The library is going to be ready in 2 turns - do we begin assigning scientists as soon as there is population available?

 

[Balbes]

Your argument about cities is correct (you even overestimated Lexadgrad a bit ), but it assumes us using bare forest for production - and it will be chopped down when we need many ships fast - Galleon takes 120 hammers.

Yes, exactly! Galleons must be hurried at all costs, and that is the time we chop the forests. Up to that time, we'll be building up our army at a more relaxed pace, so we'd prefer to avoid deforestation and use the +1 hammer/turn benefit. Are there any buildings we'd want to chop rush after Spain is conquered?

But I do agree it's time for careful planning of the management of our cities.

 

[Lexad]

Can you describe the plan one more time? The library is going to be ready in 2 turns - do we begin assigning scientists as soon as there is population available?

I'd rather irrigate 1 tile for faster pop growth at pop 2 (also, we need granary as in almost every city, chop it), then set 2 scientists at pop 3. We will still have 1 food growth per turn, and when we move to production phase, can assign scientists to horse & mine, making it 3 food, or temporarily put 1 to irrigated grass to speed up the process.

 

[Lexad]

Are there any buildings we'd want to chop rush after Spain is conquered?

As I've said,

happiness resources enough to employ 10 citizens in Cordoba, thus needing a Forge, a temple ... A Courthouse is in order, granary, and lighthouse too

 

[IL2T]

The archer's chances are approximately 40% for every combat, so the odds of the archer beating 3 warriors are 6%, and only this high if the archer emerges undamaged every time. In reality his chaces of getting past the 2nd warrior are practically zero.

See screenshot at this post. Loss of one warrior is very sensitive.

I think that at least we must stop unfogging that tile once we have built a more substantial army.

I agree.

 

[IL2T]

Note: The width our continent makes approximately not less than 25 tiles. It divides world on two parts

 

[IL2T]

Only Barcelona and Toledo is really useless cities. Cordoba and Sevilla have some potential. We should think of that how to use it in our strategy.

 

[Lexad]

On the contrary, Barcelona with clams and rice - and sugars after Calendar! - seems prospective to me. However, we really should analyse the question in depth. Another argument "for" these cities is that they already have religion as culture-generator.

 

[IL2T]

Whether easily AI change the Alphabet for something at contact?
and Alphabet is a science of low importance...

I'm not sure.

 

[Cat Behemoth]

IL2T: The tile 1SE of clams was being deliberately kept fogged, in hope the barbarians found a city there for us. Have we now abandoned that plan?

As I remember, barbs could not found cities within 2 tiles from civs borders.

 

[Lexad]

Whether easily AI change the Alphabet for something at contact?
and Alphabet is a science of low importance...

I'm not sure.

If they have it, we do not necessary change Alphabet As for preferences, I've never traded for it from the purchasing side.

I agree with CB on low probability of barb city emergence, I'd estimate it as zero.

 

[Balbes]

However, we really should analyse the question in depth. Another argument "for" these cities is that they already have religion as culture-generator.

If I remember correctly, if you have a state religion, only cities with it generate culture from religion.

Toledo will have to go in any case

As I remember, barbs could not found cities within 2 tiles from civs borders.

They can, I've seen it very recently in this month's GOTM. The only requirement seems to be that cultural borders would not overlap.

I do agree the probability is close to zero now.

 

[Dynamic]

I just appeared and need to read all posts...
I think I can play this evening...

 

[Obormot]

Good job, guys. I think we are moving in the right direction overall.

Although I think that building the library in akotsgrad was a mistake. We need 3 cities with scientists, and we have 3 cities with more food then akotsgrad: kyoto, obormotgrad and D) cordoba. Also even if we decide to run scientists there we won't be using them in the near future and even if we loose 45 hammers overall, you should understand that hammers now are more importans then hammers later, and the short term loss is significant: we could have used the worker turns to improve land near obormotgrad and have it grow to size 2, it would have already started working both sheep and wheat.

Now that I've seen a screenshot of spanish lands, I can have an opinion about their cities: I think we should definietly keep Cordoba, with slavery it'll be an excellent production city. With library & 2 scientists it will grow slow enough so that we can whip every 15 turns, and once we learn the techs for Astronomy and CS we can whip two citizens at a time to build samurais & galeons. Lexagrad may be slightly better in the long run, but the headstart we'll have with those population and free culture from religion (I don't think we'll need a state religion anytime soon, maybe we won't need it ever) will be of great effect. Seville is worse, but extra happiness from sugar is nice and I vote for keeping it too. Even a crappy city with a lux is usually worth keeping. Toledo and Barselona should go.

 

[Balbes]

Obormot: I agree with you on every account except Barcelona. Barcelona has access to rice and clams - so it can grow alright, and 3 sugar - lots of coins. It isn't that bad.

 

[IL2T]

Although I think that building the library in akotsgrad was a mistake.

IMHO Obelisk are lost 45 hammers! It's not panagea.
The library will work not less than 100 turns. In this case Tokyo border will expanded 3 turn early. We need few quantity of hammers to destroy Spain!

 

[Lexad]

If I remember correctly, if you have a state religion, only cities with it generate culture from religion.

- yes, but as we have no state religion, every religion generates culture

if we loose 45 hammers overall, you should understand that hammers now are more importans then hammers later, and the short term loss is significant: we could have used the worker turns to improve land near obormotgrad and have it grow to size 2, it would have already started working both sheep and wheat.

- well, no big loss here. We like postponed sheep for turns for chop minus win in getting sheep faster in Tokyo = 6-4=2 turns, and wheat by no more than 6 turns (less if we do not start working wheat in 9 turns = movt + sheep improvement), totalling (6+2)*3 = 24 hammers, but won 44. And I still think we need library in Tokyo for Calendar, MAchinery, CoL, CS and maybe Guilds.

As for keeping Spanish cities, I've forgot about slavery, thanx, Obormot! Considering slavery, keeping Cordoba seems much better plan and I agree with it. It does not require to keep all the woods but still gives plenty of hammers with granary and wise use of Forge.
Seville won't be giving much until Calendar, but still might be kept due to shortage of fleet-builders.
I'm also in favour of keeping Barca, which even w/o Calendar and Lighthouse will give us +6 food at pop 2 and with Calendar - +12 food - better than any other save Kyoto. Ideal for pop-rush.
Toledo is rubbish unless we want a gem mine to work and grow Osaka by moving to rice.
Madrid seems good pop-rusher to me.

 

[Dynamic]

Sorry for delay, I will play tomorrow...